From Bucknuts site: Uncertainty hurting Day, Ohio State on recruiting trail
So, you're telling me there's a chance.
December 16th, 2018 at 1:41 AM ^
Not as much "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" denial in the comments section as I would have thought.
There is some legitimate rational concern among the Buckeye faithful.
Not that they won't be able to still recruit well, but that they won't be able to keep killing it at Alabama levels. That may have been a Meyer-only thing.
As one commenter said: There HAS to be a falloff from Meyer. He is one of the best who has ever done it.... ever. We didn’t get the big name guy. Day can’t have Meyer’s national appeal.
December 16th, 2018 at 8:51 AM ^
I know a lot of M fans can’t process OSU actually slipping, but that quote says it well. The media circus about Meyer stacking his lies this year/offseason has made a lot of people think he’s some kind of buffoon/past his prime/replaceable guy. He is absolutely one of the best recruiters and head coaches- there has to be a drop off.
He took OSU from a top 10 team to a top 5 team. Doesn’t sound like a big jump but that is the biggest and hardest jump- a tier 2 team to a tier 1 team. Even recruiting wise, if you look at team composite scores there is usually a big drop somewhere between spots 4-8 or so, meaning that there is a significant difference between recruiting at a top 5 vs top 10 level.
People have been using Lincoln Riley as an example of how Day will keep things rolling, but IMO Stoops really was on the downslope. In addition OU won a lot of close, high scoring games this year that could easily go the other way next year, so I think the jury is still out there.
December 16th, 2018 at 9:48 AM ^
I believe the Lincoln Riley comparison is stupid if you're trying to say there won't be a dropoff. For one, if Oklahoma were in the Big Ten, things would look a lot different. And, um, he just lost to his arch rival in a year where OU is clearly the better team.
December 16th, 2018 at 11:01 AM ^
Why would things look a lot different for Oklahoma. Is Michigan a demonstrably better team than West Virginia this year?
December 16th, 2018 at 11:36 AM ^
It's also stupid because Lincoln Riley is not, like, the first assistant coach to ever succeed his legendary former boss.
Like may I introduce you to Bob Davie? John Robinson? Phil Fulmer? Oklahoma after Bud Wilkinson? Gary Moeller? Ron Zook?
December 16th, 2018 at 11:42 AM ^
I know Lincoln Riley, Lincoln Riley is a friend of mine. Ryan Day, you are no Lincoln Riley.
December 16th, 2018 at 3:41 PM ^
Frank Solich
December 16th, 2018 at 1:46 PM ^
It helps having back to back Heisman qb's as well. He may not look as brilliant once he is down to average college qb's.
December 16th, 2018 at 2:09 PM ^
He may not look as brilliant once he is down to average college qb's.
Those 2 Heisman QBs *were* average QBs elsewhere.
December 16th, 2018 at 6:11 PM ^
Me too.
Oklahoma's success has nothing to do with Lincoln Riley. It's all about Erik Swenson
December 16th, 2018 at 1:01 PM ^
He (Meyer) took OSU from a top 10 team to a top 5 team. Doesn’t sound like a big jump but that is the biggest and hardest jump- a tier 2 team to a tier 1 team. Even recruiting wise, if you look at team composite scores there is usually a big drop somewhere between spots 4-8 or so, meaning that there is a significant difference between recruiting at a top 5 vs top 10 level.
TING!!
Especially in recruiting. Look at these amazing Ohio State recruiting rankings from 247:
Under Tressel:
2001: #6
2002: #4
2003: #46
2004: #55
2005: #74
2006: #25
2007: #72
2008: #10
2009: #5
2010: #18
2011: #6
Under Meyer:
2012: #5
2013: #2
2014: #3
2015: #7
2016: #4
2017: #2
2018: #2
Wow! I thought these were a typo. But I cross-checked them against other sources like Bucknuts themselves, and they are indeed accurate.
Tressel got dinged with some small class sizes in the middle, but still, there is no comparison.
5-star recruits from Texas and Florida and the DMV were not committing to play for Ohio State. They were committing to play for Urban Meyer.
Pre-Urban Meyer, Ohio State was a very good solid regional recruiter with some national gets here and there. But they were not the elite Alabama-level national recruiter they are now.
Because of Urban Meyer.
Without Urban Meyer, Ohio State will still be a very good recruiter (and Urban Meyer will still be floating around the OSU AD for at least a little while). But they are not going to remain an Alabama-level recruiter. The main draw is gone.
December 16th, 2018 at 1:13 PM ^
I thought Urban was remaining on the AD staff to assist with recruiting?
December 16th, 2018 at 1:27 PM ^
He is, and that will have an impact. But it's not the same as being the HC, and I'm not sure how long he will do it.
December 16th, 2018 at 8:54 AM ^
How many souls were sold to essentially get Jim Tressel and Urban Meyer back to back? We'll have a little 'grace' period - no pun intended, well, maybe a little - before the next batch of souls get sold so we need to take advantage of this interlude and build up the program while we can.
December 16th, 2018 at 9:18 AM ^
Jim Tressel was not a sell your soul type of hire. This was a let’s take a chance on a very successful D1AA coach and hope for the best.
They obviously hit a HR with him and then sold many souls to get Urabn.
Meanwhile, Michigan sells no souls and gets RR and Hoke. The two worst coaches in UM history.
December 16th, 2018 at 10:10 AM ^
No, no that's not how the soul selling works. You sell it for what you want, you don't get to chose how it gets done. Or how the grim reaper comes collecting, either. Not that I have any experience with this type of thing, that's just my educated guess...
December 16th, 2018 at 11:55 AM ^
Generally you have to sacrifice something as well. Stray cats seem like a good idea in theory, but they rarely work. Stealing a neighbor's dog is preferred, and disposing of its carcass on the neighbor's doorstep when you're finished is more or less a necessity.
December 16th, 2018 at 10:29 AM ^
That's part of his point. They obviously selected well but we're extraordinarily fortunate that a relative unknown turned into Tressel. If a RichRod type hire were available to them at that time, they would have run with it.
On their merits at the time, the RichRod hire was much better than the Tressel hire, yet the results were entirely opposite.
December 16th, 2018 at 4:53 PM ^
There were no hires available with RR credentials?? Cmon, that is silly. tOSU chose a different, less trendy pick, the opposite of what UM chose. After Cooper they wanted an Ohio guy and that would win Championships.
The next coach for a big time university will be Matt Campbell sooner than later. Would have been a good tOSU hire if Day wasn’t already on staff.
December 16th, 2018 at 10:37 AM ^
Notre Dame hired Brian Kelly. Ohio State hired Urban Meyer.
Michigan hired Brady Hoke.
Enough said.
December 16th, 2018 at 10:44 AM ^
Brian Kelly is a mediocre coach.
December 16th, 2018 at 12:04 PM ^
No he’s not.
He the best that ND could hope for. It’s not that easy to be elite there anymore.
December 16th, 2018 at 12:40 PM ^
He's elite
December 16th, 2018 at 2:48 PM ^
It's fun to think MSU ran Saban out of town, and passed on Brian Kelly. Dantonio was a solid fall back plan, but clearly inferior to the other two.
December 16th, 2018 at 4:14 PM ^
At yelling.
December 16th, 2018 at 12:46 PM ^
A good friend of Tressels during his time at YSU was Mickey Monus. Monus was the head of the board of trustees, the CEO of an up and fast-coming pharmacy chain, and was on the sidelines for all of Youngstown State's games. It was Tressel who set up the first meeting between his star player and Monus.
The record states over the years Monus gave thousands of dollars to Isaac. The record also states Isaac used cars provided by Monus.
A few years later, Monus came up on Federal fraud charges for "bookkeeping irregularities" and all of the stories of Monus' relationship with Isaac came to light. At the time the NCAA ordered and investigation in which Tressel denied any knowledge of any wrong doing.
A hundred percent of this investigation was done internally and none of the stipulations and assurances given by Tressel, School President Leslie Cochran, nor Athletic Director Joe Malsimur were ever completed. Tressel never contacted Isaac as he promised he would and Malsimur never contacted Monus.
It's really as if no internal investigation at all took place. The NCAA's follow-up on the investigation is an absolute joke.
The fact is, all of the files are closed and Youngstown refuses to release them, claiming they are part if Isaac's personal information. When Isaac was asked if he ever spoke to Tressel or anyone regarding the matter, he claims he spoke to no one.
During Monus's later trials for other offenses, more infractions in the Penguin athletic program were exposed. In the end, the NCAA took away some scholarships and cited YSU with a lack of institutional control.
The penalty was the loss of scholarships and although it was certainly warranted, the NCAA couldn't revoke YSU's 1991 National title as the statute of limitations to to so had expired.
Less than a year later, Tressel was hired by Ohio State and the rest is history.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/220143-jim-tressel-the-youngstown-state-scandal-revisited
December 17th, 2018 at 9:15 AM ^
I'd go upstream a little further. We had the amazing misfortune of Lee Bollinger hiring Bill Martin and Mary Sue Coleman hiring Dave Brandon as AD's.
December 16th, 2018 at 9:41 AM ^
Buckeyes don't have souls to sell. That's why they sell their jerseys.
December 16th, 2018 at 10:07 AM ^
What's crazy to me is how Urban and Tressel only got 1 Natty each. Seems like with those teams and records, they underperformed in the NC category. And the year Urban won was totally unexpected with a 3rd string QB. I guess you could also say the year Tressel won could've easily been negated without that wild PI call.
December 16th, 2018 at 1:46 AM ^
Under Urban Meyer, Ohio State finished fifth, second, third, seventh, fourth, second, and second respectively in the national team recruiting rankings, and had the top class in the Big Ten every February during those seven cycles.
Wow!!
Over 7 consecutive years he has pulled in an average recruiting class ranking of 3.6 nationally.
Great article. Michigan might have a little bit of recruiting window. Need to make good on the field to solidify that.
Although I don't consider myself a star gazer, looking at the rankings above it's very clear that stars do matter!! Michigan needs to continue hitting the recruiting trail hard!
December 16th, 2018 at 9:53 AM ^
"Ohio State finished fifth, second, third, seventh, fourth, second, and second respectively in the national team recruiting rankings ..."
To those who say "Harbaugh has to beat OSU this year!" take some time and think about those stats.
I think Jim has righted the ship. He's made some mistakes, but the overall arc looks good to me.
December 16th, 2018 at 10:20 AM ^
Recruiting Rankings: 5, 2, 3, 7, 4, 2, 2; Average=3.6
Final AP Ranking: 3, 12, 1, 4, 6, 5, 6*; Average=5.3
All I get out of this is that he was a legendary recruiter but not as great of a coach.
*estimate
December 16th, 2018 at 12:48 PM ^
LOL dude has three national titles and is 7-0 against Michigan. Being a good college coach means you're a good recruiter.
December 16th, 2018 at 5:38 PM ^
There aren't enough down votes for this truly awful and objectively false take.
December 16th, 2018 at 11:50 AM ^
Agree
December 16th, 2018 at 12:49 PM ^
So you're perfectly OK with Jim Harbaugh starting off 0-5 vs OSU?
Get real.
December 16th, 2018 at 1:45 PM ^
Just shut the fuck up for once, dude. One fucking time. Nobody is "perfectly ok" with going 0-fer against OSU. Nobody. STFU.
December 16th, 2018 at 2:28 PM ^
That’s hilarious. He’s like, we’re &@;!&@& losers! We love it!!! Not. I wish I could’ve upvoted you more than once.
December 16th, 2018 at 5:18 AM ^
I knew once OSU hired Urban that we'd be in for a long ride, I just didn't think he'd be undefeated against us.
December 16th, 2018 at 8:20 AM ^
Well either the B1G or the Buckeye faithful invested good money in making sure he was undefeated against us in 2016...
December 16th, 2018 at 8:27 AM ^
The number of people on mgoblog that discounted Meyer when he was hired and called him over-rated was... oh well he's gone now, bygones...
December 16th, 2018 at 10:12 AM ^
It's probably because we beat his Tebow team with a team that lost to App State.
December 16th, 2018 at 12:46 PM ^
His *worst* Tebow team, the one that finished 9-4. All of the other Tebow teams ended with just one loss.
December 16th, 2018 at 12:49 PM ^
Tebow's only bowl loss and Tebow's only non-conference loss.
December 16th, 2018 at 9:33 AM ^
I always knew it would be a short-term ride. I said he would be burn out within 5-7 years and that's basically what happened.
December 16th, 2018 at 1:09 PM ^
Shhhhhhhh! People say that about Harbaugh.
December 16th, 2018 at 5:31 AM ^
They can still sell recruits on the 'play school' angle.
December 16th, 2018 at 9:27 AM ^
Then they would be battling Mork for recruits.
Thats still quite a drop off.
December 16th, 2018 at 6:25 AM ^
I am more of a philosophical sports purist than a partisan fan-my world is not defined by Michigan playing OSU in football. However, in the real world, if OSU beats Michigan the next two times Day will have as strong if not stronger recruiting position as Meyer.
December 16th, 2018 at 6:53 AM ^
Total nonsense. Urban was multi time national champion with a head to head over Alabama. Nationally, beating michgian is the same as beating any other typically good team.
Do you think Saban’s replacement will have the same gravitas as Saban, if that person beats LSU twice? Of course not.