Football Recruiting and the reality of bagmen
Last week, I had an interesting conversation with a registered NFL agent. This particular agent formally represents several Michigan grads currently in the league, as well as guys currently on the team. He thinks well of many guys at Michigan, even though he is an OSU grad. Our discussion took place prior to the debacle, when I still had naive hope in a Michigan win. Sigh.
In our discussion, he shared that a huge number of highly rated players, including several prominent guys currently on Michigan's team, receive compensation. From his perspective, basically every kid who is from a low income family and is ranked more or less in the top 100 prospects, probably in the top 200 or 300 prospects, is currently receiving compensation. He also believes that given the ridiculous amounts of money involved, this makes sense. Why should rich white guys in the NCAA and coaches and institutions get more and more, when kids in challenging circumstances basically get nothing. (Well, they get free room and board and tuition, but that's basically in exchange for working full time as a football player on a Division I team.)
As regards OSU, this matter of compensation has given them a huge leg up on Michigan. One of the real reasons Zach Smith continued so long as WR coach was his ability to leverage compensation for recruits going to the Buckeyes. The reality is that if the same thing doesn't happen at Michigan, we are never going to catch up to Alabama and Clemson, let alone OSU.
I don't know quite what to make of it all, but I am sure this is the reality. My guess is that Brian is all too aware of the reality, and this is part of the reason he supports compensating players openly. I'm sure there are boundaries out there and lines you can't cross. That's part of the reason Ole Miss got in trouble: they either paid players too openly, or crossed the wrong powerful people.
Regardless, here are my major takeaways. First, the schools at the top shield the coaches with plausible deniability, but these same coaches almost have to be aware that this is going on. If bagmen or boosters or agents are compensating family members, they do it in a way that no one on the coaching staff has their hands on it or direct knowledge of it. Second, if my agent contact is correct, several top players at Michigan are part of the same practice. Which means that I don't know how accurate it is to be throwing stones at other schools and their coaches. For good or for bad, this is the current reality. Given the current economic status of many the families involved, and the obscene amounts of money to be made, it is fairly inevitable that this would be the reality.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:33 PM ^
We'll just agree to disagree. As for my contact, he has no reason to lie. And I know for a fact that he represents guys in the NFL. I think you are naive if you don't think that money isn't offered, and in many cases accepted, by representatives of kids who come from challenged financial circumstances.
November 29th, 2018 at 2:16 PM ^
So he says Michigan players are currently getting paid, but that if we don't start paying Michigan players we won't keep up with Clemson, Bama and OSU? Are we not paying them enough?
Listen, people won't like my take, but I have heard and seen things around Big Ten football programs to lead me to believe this guy is correct. And furthermore, if you land a player over a school that you know is paying and they were a finalist, well, that kid was looking to get paid and chose Michigan over someone that was paying... you fill in the rest.
November 29th, 2018 at 2:17 PM ^
Fine lines and grey area....
I would draw some distinction between a kid who is already in the program being given some spending $$ vs buying a recruit's commitment with hookers, blow and a sports car.
November 29th, 2018 at 2:17 PM ^
Kinda wish you wouldn't have implicated UofM in a public post like this.
November 29th, 2018 at 2:20 PM ^
So UM cheats but just not that much. Uh, what sense does that make? Not buying it.
November 29th, 2018 at 2:24 PM ^
I've read various indignant posts on this site about how OSU pays guys, Alabama pays guys, and that's why it's so hard to catch up. It's bullshit "well, we do things the right way" high-road drivel. We fans should all probably stop with the bagman excuse when a recruit goes elsewhere. I'd be shocked if there was a school out there (outside of the service academies) that doesn't pay recruits.
November 29th, 2018 at 5:17 PM ^
Good trollin'
November 29th, 2018 at 2:24 PM ^
I'm all for paying players. It would tilt the playing field in our favor. UM has substantial resources and this would lure more kids from the south up north.
November 29th, 2018 at 2:25 PM ^
As a CPA in training, one thought I have is that these payments are not being taxed. Shouldn't that idea give the government incentive to allow players to be paid ?
November 29th, 2018 at 2:48 PM ^
Oh how much you don’t know! Yes the parents have to pay taxes on that scholarship by the way.
November 29th, 2018 at 2:27 PM ^
A question: if the system is so ingrained in certain universities, why haven't disgruntled players come forward and blow the whistle? Surely a rival school could offer payment for information, and there must be a resentful man somewhere who Nick Saban put on "medical scholarship".
November 29th, 2018 at 2:32 PM ^
The Curious Case of Laramy Tunsil answers your question. He admitted (basically) that he took benefits, and lost millions. Everyone involved smeared him and did everything they could to exonerate the school.
Who wants to talk under those conditions?
November 29th, 2018 at 2:29 PM ^
*whispers into walkie talkie*
We have a turd in the punch bowl.
November 29th, 2018 at 2:37 PM ^
How can he represent kids currently on the team? Sorry I’m not buying it/
November 29th, 2018 at 2:42 PM ^
I am sure I misspoke. A current player on the team who is a senior was referred to him by other clients from Michigan who are currently in the league. My contact expects this player to be drafted. He expects to represent this player. I am sure this player and my contact are following the rules, whatever the rules are. As such, I am sure you are correct that he does not "currently represent" this player, but has a relationship of some kind such that it is reasonable to presume he will in fact represent this player when this player declares for the draft after his eligibility is completed with the bowl game. Is that a better way of putting it?
November 29th, 2018 at 2:37 PM ^
"This particular agent formally represents several Michigan grads currently in the league, as well as guys currently on the team." Why would this agent be telling you that he represents "guys currently on the team"? I don't know if the language here is simply imprecise and overstates the agent's actual relationship with players, but obviously if true to the letter of your statement, those players would be ineligible. And well, that would of course be a major problem.
November 29th, 2018 at 2:46 PM ^
I am sure my language was imprecise and incorrect. I am sure my contact and the current Michigan player are following the rules regarding representation. As such, I am sure my contact does not *yet* represent this player, and further, has no formal relationship or contract. Having said that, I also am sure that virtually all college players who are potential NFL prospects have been approached by agents, and have some kind of unofficial contact that is allowed.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:02 PM ^
Yes it’s allowed!! Geez people
November 29th, 2018 at 2:39 PM ^
So Michigan is paying players but not enough to get better players that would beat OSU?
Then what is the point of paying anybody anything?
November 29th, 2018 at 2:54 PM ^
Damnit.....even our bagmen fail at gameplanning!
November 29th, 2018 at 3:00 PM ^
Bo talked about boosters paying athletes behind his back. He asked them not to. He also said he would play who he wanted so don’t call and demand that your man gets more playing time. He also said he would NOT go to Texas A&M because they cheat down there.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:01 PM ^
I am gonna chime in as lots of people here have no idea what a player gets and doesn’t get.
1. Many here have said we should pay players etc and or the less fortunate should get a stipend, all scholarship players receive a sum amount on the 1st of every month. I will give u real examples, said school player receives $600 a month on top of scholarship, meals, books, clothes, room and board, tutoring, weekly game dinner ($100 a person easily) and all the other equipment clothing etc:
2. If player chooses to live off campus he will then be compensated $1200 a month to leave the dorm etc: The University then charges triple that amount for a regular student, if u leave you could loose you actual daily meal plan.
3. Schools have lots of ways to incentivize players and coaches, like staffers who will sleep w coaches and players etc:
4. Players especially Football Players are very well taken care of w food etc:
5. For the CPA in training who posted about tax free, you need to brush up because the full ride scholarship is taxed to the parents and have to claim it. Yes, they do so no one chime and say they don’t. I know and I have had to.
6. Agents, yes you can have contact w a draft eligible player before the season ends as long as you contact the school and set up the meeting on campus. Once again people this is how it works, yes it does and yes I have. If they choose to do it secretly then of course there are issues. Go set it up on campus and yes you can talk w “eligible players” there is no other way that is legal. So yes that’s why agents have a leg up on players as they have been setting up dates w the players after a certain date.
7. South schools are very vey dirty so much as the trail lasts for 5 plus years after a player leaves the said school.
Finally, players do receive $$ monthly and can offset the amount by making moves within the said school. Chime in w your takes and opinions but this is exactly how it is. My opinion is you can up the monthly stipend but “NO” player should ever be paid IMO after seeing what I’ve seen and experienced over the years.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:25 PM ^
Thanks much for filling things in for me and for others. There is a lot of confusion out there. Item 6 was especially helpful as regards my contact. He obviously has had contact with particular draft eligible players, but doesn't "formally represent" them at the current time.
I don't know the answers, but some Michigan fans need to get off their white horse and out of their ivory tower. Also, there are racial overtones to this discussion, but that is too simplistic. More of the issue has to do with culture and income level. I personally have been too naive, and realize more and more that something has to change.
I myself think that increasing the stipend would help with some players, but only so much. I suspect that southern schools are more dirty because in some areas (Alabama?) the team is the virtual professional team. You root for Bama instead of a local NFL team, because there is no local NFL team.
November 29th, 2018 at 5:25 PM ^
Your only half right on 5.
Basically the tuition and stipend (grants) are tax-free.
The room and board is taxed.
Sez the IRS: https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc421
November 29th, 2018 at 3:04 PM ^
You can't have an agent while being on the team, correct everyone? That's a clear rule.
Do you mean he has relationships with them that he believes will become a business contract, or that he actually represents them?
Because I read this and it makes me doubt everything else in the post.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:09 PM ^
That is correct, but Agents can contact the school and set up informal meetings w eligible players. This gives players and families time to do there homework as well.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:05 PM ^
I'll never agree that the university should pay the players. That money has to come from somewhere and if paid, it will end up costing the students who aren't on an athletic scholarship more in tuition and fees.
My son, in his 3rd year at William & Mary, is paying (between my wife and me and his student loans and he has in state tuition) $32k per year after his academic scholarship is applied.
Sorry, but I have no desire to pay more so somebody else's kid can get paid to play football. The full scholarship is fine, but nothing beyond that.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:08 PM ^
Jesus, Mary and Joseph! I'm glad my kid went to a State School.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:11 PM ^
I hear you. If he had gone to Michigan (out of state) I'd be robbing a bank instead of posting this comment.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:21 PM ^
YUP.... I know an attorney who's daughter was offered a huge scholarship (it was north of 50%) to Pitt Law.... but she insisted on going to U of M (as a PA resident)... His investment portfolio is a shadow of its old self and she's not done yet.
I would have told her she was on her own.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:11 PM ^
Agreed, and yes these guys get so much more then just a education. The perks are unbelievable and add up so much. Shoes alone are $1000-$2000 a year depending on school.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:09 PM ^
Damn those rich white guys. Always messing everything up. /s
http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are/office-president/ncaa-leadership-team
November 29th, 2018 at 3:14 PM ^
And while we're at it, I'm friends with a former WR walk-on - asked him about steroid use. Wouldn't give me names but mentioned that a handful of guys on the team were using.
November 29th, 2018 at 5:03 PM ^
No way! They're just naturally bigger, stronger, and faster than the rest of the human race!
/s...obviously
November 29th, 2018 at 5:16 PM ^
Umm, no need for /s, this is true. The guys that make it to D1 scholarship football are naturally bigger, stronger, and faster than 99.9% of the human race. That doesn't mean that some don't also look for additional help when they get there.
November 29th, 2018 at 5:40 PM ^
I've been around a lot of D1 athletes as a player and coach, and usually the guys that are so much bigger, faster, and stronger are the ones that don't use steroids, or the illegal substances they use are recovery based. The smaller/fringe dudes are the ones who need the Roids
November 29th, 2018 at 3:14 PM ^
Im to the point that Im ready to give up my stance on not paying the players ONLY because then maybe Michigan can recruit with Alabama.
My concern is it still wouldnt be a free market which would lead to recruits secretly getting paid for a chance to get a leg up. It wouldnt prevent cheating.
My biggest issue is with the NCAA crushing Ole Miss while turning a blind eye to the most obvious bag man out there which is Alabama. If you havent looked thru the 247sports thread on the trojans site about Bama players and their cars its a good one. Yes its funny USC has a thread about paying players but they are pointing out the hypocrisy of the NCAA.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:15 PM ^
I know several high school coaches who knew drake Harris family and when home recruited him I was told all of his families medical bills were taken care of etc.. he also was told in order for his family to be taken care of he had to sit out which is what he did mostly or all of his senior year.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:16 PM ^
Water is wet.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:18 PM ^
Yeah but we are Michigan...
November 29th, 2018 at 3:21 PM ^
Theres a documentary on it. Its called Blue Chips.
November 30th, 2018 at 2:08 AM ^
That movie would be totally great as a remake featuring college football in the modern era.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:23 PM ^
Not sure this makes sense. You claim Michigan is paying/compensating players yet said they can't compete with Bama/Clemson/OSU unless they start compensating players.
Are they paying players, but not to the level the other schools are?
November 29th, 2018 at 3:30 PM ^
Michigan is not compensating players. Players at Michigan are being compensated. And the players who are being compensated are a critical part of Michigan's success.
I think part of the problem is that it takes time to change. And that yes, Michigan has not compensated to the same degree that Bama/Clemson/OSU have done.
My contact also suggested that 3 star players are not compensated, at least not to the same degree. I think (but don't know) that he would suggest every 5 star kid has the opportunity to be compensated indirectly, if that kid wants it. For kids from a healthy financial position, it might be better not to be compensated, because then no one "owns" you (and you don't owe anyone anything.)
I don't want to know the details, but I suspect going forward that Michigan is aggressively recruiting kids who are highly ranked, and that some of those kids in some way will be compensated indirectly from sources not formally tied to the University of Michigan in any way.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:30 PM ^
It's possible that Michigan players do "receive compensation" but I am guessing if it is true, it probably not a lot.
It is definitely in the interest of almost every other program to assume / accuse Michigan of paying players.
It's likely I wouldn't know if it was true, but I am guessing it is not true.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:37 PM ^
I don't know amounts being paid, and I'm not going to ask. The reality is that if I asked my contact too much, he probably would just dry up. I'm sure his source is kids on the team and being around the program some. I don't see him all that often . . . typically just at holidays and special events. You of course can choose not to believe me, or my contact, but some of the details I can't share lead me to believe he is telling the truth.
November 29th, 2018 at 3:51 PM ^
So there's some info from a source, albeit vague and spoken in generalities, and a whole lot of speculation and assumption on your part.
is that fair?
November 29th, 2018 at 4:40 PM ^
November 29th, 2018 at 4:02 PM ^
So very sad that people like you attack the character of other coaches/institutions with absolutely no proof or basis for it. You holier than thou my program is so clean B.S. artists are laughable. I guess it's just another excuse in the long line of excuses for Michigan from refs to weather to paid players to if we only had/got etc.
Lose gracefully and quit the bold faced lies and gossip. It will make you a better person.
Merry Christmas
November 29th, 2018 at 4:48 PM ^