J.

August 22nd, 2018 at 11:48 PM ^

LOL, good point.  I missed the forest for the trees on that one. ;)

I once interviewed for a position at a company where a former co-worker had been hired.  He told me that the company indexed every employee's résumé, so that they could cross-reference potential hires and get opinions from anyone they'd worked with / gone to school with.

But, yeah, they probably should have gone ahead and asked his former boss.  (Maybe they did, and he was having memory issues...)

NRK

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:09 AM ^

No, this is how almost every background check is run, FYI. It's been a huge area of litigation for a number of years. Link

EEOC and a number of state laws heavily scrutinize looking at arrest records, rather than convictions.  (Link to EEOC Guidance)

So in most cases, employers do not even look at arrest records. If its specifically related (e.g., you have an embezzlement charge and you're trying to get an accounting job) then it likely will still be factored in, but more or less arrests are not considered at this point due tons of litigation around this.

NRK

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:37 AM ^

No worries - I don't think it's common knowledge. Happens to be an area I deal in all the time so I'm intimately familiar with this issue, unfortunately.

Truth is the EEOC has a point to some degree, but as with most things, the pendulum can swing too far (and I'll leave it at that).

 

J.

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:44 AM ^

Fair enough.  I didn't mean to tilt my post one way or the other (no politics, after all :) ).  I'm happy to concede that the EEOC knows people's hiring behaviors better than I do, and it sounds like you do as well.

UMForLife

August 22nd, 2018 at 11:20 PM ^

Thanks CLion. 

So, here is my bullet points:

1. Meyer does not remember and has memory issues (when it matters)

2. Deleted text once he felt it will come out.

3. Wife never says to Meyer when someone's life in jeopardy. 

4. Does not tell his supervisor when one of his employees has drug issue.

5. Lied to the media and it was an accident. 

6. Smith had performance issues but he went against the recommendation to replace him.

7. Loyalty to his mentor is important to him.

8. Title IX reporting was not addressed???

9. Staffer who was transferred not addressed?

That is what I got from the excerpts and reading the document (not thoroughly)

Meyer is a liar. His boss has no backbone. His wife is just accepting the insult. OSU has no backbone. Sickening. There are too many holes and I will not be surprised if something comes up.

Thursday

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:08 AM ^

1-7 and 9 are real issues, but I think Title IX has been a red herring this whole time. It's focused on people in "any educational program or activity," so students primarily, and none of the people involved in this were students, as far as I know. But Title IX stuff is ridiculously complicated, and there's been a lot of confusion about it.

greatlakestate

August 22nd, 2018 at 11:28 PM ^

If it all dies with this, zero.  If more bad stuff gets dredged up, then I say he "retires" once again.  I think the odds are that more stuff gets dredged up is pretty high because now every reporter in the country is looking.  I guess it really depends on how bad the new information is...

jbrandimore

August 22nd, 2018 at 11:26 PM ^

Holy shit!

When Meyer found out the media was onto his lies he wanted to know how to auto delete older text messages?!?!?

This entire report is damning of Meyer and the conclusions do not match the individual findings at all.

UofM626

August 22nd, 2018 at 11:56 PM ^

So McMurphy can dig and find dirt, but OSU Trustees find nothing. Please people.... OSU should be ashamed of themselves and watching Meyer say that farce speech is all you need to know. 

PTOAD

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:28 AM ^

So Urbs hired him at OSU, and Urbs and Shelly did not report the incident in 2015, in part, based on the fact that they did not believe Courtney's story to be truthful? They came to this conclusion after a 2009 sit down with the couple were they helped counsel them. A meeting that both Zach and Courtney Smith denied happened. Ok, sounds legit!

trueblueintexas

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:24 AM ^

At this point I’m going to assume this statement from the report means they did find other illegal or illicit behavior, however because it was not in the scope of the original request it is being left out. 

 

“We set forth here our key factual findings. In doing so, we discuss information from witnesses, electronic and written documents and other sources that are relevant to our findings. We do not discuss all of the information obtained by the Independent Investigation, some of which was not relevant to our mandate and some of which was received with assurance of confidentiality. All information material to our findings, however, is discussed.”

stephenrjking

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:26 AM ^

It's honestly hard for me to process how the events in the report should have been responded to. I live in a completely different paradigm--the moral behavior of people in my line of work is a fundamental qualification of doing it. I honestly don't understand why Zach Smith got so many "don't do this or you're fired" warnings that went unheeded, regardless of the allegations of abuse.

Strip clubs? Skipping out on recruiting visits (how have we always been out-recruited by these people)? Extramarital affairs that surely people are picking up on? 

And how do they believe the man who is involved in all of this mess over his wife when abuse is alleged? How does Urban not bring up the initial allegations from 2009 (Smith's known behavior, even if he was somehow not guilty of abuse, which I don't believe, is a MAJOR red flag to me) when Smith is hired?

Urban seems to have terrible judgment. The funny thing is, I believe he actually does have compassion in these situations, but he's blind and foolish. And that explanation for the media day deception is hot garbage. 

I do, at least, acknowledge that he suffers from serious memory loss. He forgot, for example, that he had Zeke Elliott on his team when they hosted Michigan State in 2015. I wish he'd forget stuff like that when they play us. 

NRK

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:31 AM ^

So, I'm an employment lawyer, and I've seen plenty of these in my day.

I have to say, this is what I expected to be results of the investigation in terms of discipline, although I'm a bit surprised by some of the evidence (e.g., Meyer allegedly wiping his text history, the "misremembering" of an investigation he followed for months, etc.)

Frankly, in my opinion, this is the report you write when you're looking for a reason to keep someone and there isn't damning evidence that you cannot keep that person. This is a "we'll take some heat, but it's good enough report to justify a slap on the wrist" and I truly believe that. If there was something so bad, they may have had their hand forced, but given so much of this is arrests, phone records that were conveniently wiped, and attributed to "forgetting" it needed a damning piece of evidence that would be public.

The fact is when you're conducting an investigation there's always factual considerations (e.g., how much weight do you give the fact that Urban Meyer said he didn't believe the abuse allegations, etc.). Those are VERY easy to sway to fit your outcome. Here the outcome is Meyer stays on, so it's:

  • "was deeply absorbed in football season"
  • "The firing of Zach Smith the day before – the first time Coach Meyer had fired a coach – was also on his mind"
  • "as was the erroneous media report of a felony arrest of Zach Smith in 2015" (by this own internal staff that referenced this)
  • "sometimes had significant memory issues in other situations where he had prior extensive knowledge of events"
  • "He evidenced the same minimalist approach"
  • "may have been motivated, in part, by his loyalty to Earle Bruce, his mentor"
  • "made misstatements – whether deliberately or not – about his knowledge of the events of 2015."
  • "While we do not know if messages older than a year had been on Coach Meyer’s phone before August 1st or whether Coach Meyer deleted any messages"
  • "we do not find that Coach Meyer’s misstatements on Big Ten Media Days were part of a deliberate cover-up"
  • "although it is a close question and we cannot rule out that Coach Meyer was intentionally misleading in his answers, we do not ultimately find that he was. He clearly misspoke and made misstatements, but the reasons that happened are complex"

These are all the exact, extremely well massaged legal statements you make on the evidence you collect that allows you to come to a conclusion that you want.

If this is a low level employee that person is gone because you don't trust them. If it's Urban Meyer it's a 3-game suspension. That's how this works. 

It's sad, and he's a pretty disgusting human being who puts winning apparently above nearly everything, but I honestly cannot say I'm surprised at this point. This case needed a smoking gun and there simply wasn't one that couldn't be explained away by a high priced lawyer.

J.

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:52 AM ^

Can this actually be true?
 

  • "The firing of Zach Smith the day before – the first time Coach Meyer had fired a coach – was also on his mind"

I mean, perhaps it's true in a technical sense -- he never fired anyone, he just chose not to renew their contract, or asked for their resignation, or... etc.  But there's no way that Meyer never got rid of an underperforming staff member, is there?

I mean, Ed Warinner comes to mind.  He went from being Meyer's co-OC to accepting a position as OL coach for PJ Fleck at Minnesota.  There's no way that was a voluntary move.

StraightDave

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:33 AM ^

Every team on OSU’s schedule can send a message and forfeit their game against OSU.  Let OSU walk into the CFP because that’s all that matters to Buckeye Nation. 

Weezer

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:35 AM ^

Can someone much smarter and more dedicated make a chronological table that has:

1. All the stuff urban knew about Zach smith. Arrest in Florida. Strip club incident, him not showing up to recruiting visits, call from Gene about Powell police investigation. Don’t put in the stuff urban might have known. I.e sex toy deliveries (weird to type) just stuff we know urban knew. Put in there wheter Gene knew about these incidents too. 

2. Zachs contract extensions. raises / performance reviews next to those coinciding chronologically listed incidents urban was aware of

What happened in the Smith marriage was awful and for their children I hope they can find stability. It was an awful marriage at best and at worst much worse than marital issues. People still want to make this about domestic abuse only and it should be the main and concerning focus but from what I am reading via investigative report they are determining they can’t determine if abuse occurred and they definitely can’t determine if Meyer or Gene smith knew. But to me, how in the heck after all the evidence Meyer had, did he keep him? It may be hard to prove abuse / 2 sides to the story, etc. (which is what the press conference seemed to want us to focus on) but this investagitve report just questions Zach basic decency and morals regardless of the abuse claims. WR coaches would be falling over themselves to coach at Ohio state. Urban didn’t even have to fire him, he could have just not renewed his contract. I don’t want to dismiss the abuse at all but even without abuse claims, how could people not question Urbans judgement in keeping Zach?

 

NRK

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:40 AM ^

People find excuses to believe what they want to believe (e.g., Earl Bruce's grandson isn't an abuser) and rely on a level of guilt that is high (charges being filed). When those match, for many people it allows you to bury your head in the sand, even if it's not morally right.

Sad. Pathetic. Disgusting. But also reality.

Weezer

August 23rd, 2018 at 12:58 AM ^

True.

Im no expert in HR or manager but I’ve personally seen supervisors burying their heads more on

-fear of repercussions (I.e we will go down together or he/she has dirt on me or he/she makes me look good at my job so I’ll look past it. Which Urban should have none)

and/or

-fear of finding an adequate replacement (again urban should have no issue here either).

Never employed or worked with someone like close like family or in my family but just boggles my mind without all the abuse allegations... You add that in...

Romeo50

August 23rd, 2018 at 7:09 AM ^

Three songs come to mind for next years psi home game. Beat it M.Jackson, Memories B. Streisand, Liar Three Dog Night. Play the Liar chords before every snap.

Romeo50

August 23rd, 2018 at 7:09 AM ^

Three songs come to mind for next years osu home game. Beat it M.Jackson, Memories B. Streisand, Liar Three Dog Night. Play the Liar chords before every snap.

Mr. Elbel

August 23rd, 2018 at 7:34 AM ^

The craziest thing about all of this to me is that at least to start, osu handled this situation exactly like urban should have handled it in 2015 (let alone in 2009). He knew an active police investigation was going on and stood around waiting for it to conclude while doing nothing to the one being investigated. At least osu put urban on admin leave to investigate him. They may not know how to write a competent report, but they at least have the basics of 'person A is being investigated and therefore needs to be not a part of our program right now.' Urban seems to not understand that principle, yet they discovered that through their investigation and saw nothing wrong with it. Apparently handling a police investigation differently than osu handles an internal investigation is handling it correctly. Yeahok.gif

Hemlock Philosopher

August 23rd, 2018 at 8:07 AM ^

I have a feeling that their president, Michael Drake, wanted to can his ass to preserve the fledgling dignity of a university that so long had a win-at-all-costs mentality. The Board of Trustees (BOT) and coach Meyer fought even a suspension and instead of resigning before the parties settled on this HALF-ASSED suspension. Meyer and the BOT at osu actually think they can pull an Officer Barbrady here and sweep their willful negligence about Zach Smith's abusive, morally corrupt and appalling behavior under the rug. This is a man who, above all, BEAT HIS WIFE, and then proceeded to rack up bills sending sex toys to the office, filming himself having sex with a university secretary (subordinate), taking pictures of his dick while visiting the White House, going to strip clubs while on university business, doing illicit drugs - getting caught, sent to rehab, and skipping out on rehab- among other egregious behavior. Urban Meyer knew all of this and continued to employ this bastard. When the shit hit the fan, he denied knowledge of it - a claim that was so easily debunked. And he has the AUDACITY to fight even a suspension? He should be fired and the University should be sanctioned for title IX violations. 

 

It's fucking disgusting that people like this are allowed to thrive. They don't just grift from here to there scraping by on others' backs. They get multi-million dollar contracts. They lead generations of youth... They are heralded by fans.

Alumnus93

August 23rd, 2018 at 9:34 AM ^

You said it quite right...   "are allowed to thrive"...  that is exactly it, and was at MSU, PSU, and now, at OSU...    time for M to take its spot again.

I digress...  people here have marvelled at Wisconsin's team build, and I say, they are the Michigan of old, with monster OL, and run a clean program, with exception of the tort now and again... this is what Bo, Mo, and Lloyd's teams were. Chryst is doing a heck of a job, and if Harbaugh weren't our coach, I'd like him to be it.

If we want to get back to where we were... then... we need to clean up in Ohio again.. guys like Joe Bachie, these guys are going to MSU because Harbaugh has focused too much on the west coast.

And we have to build the OL like Wisconsin...this is the number one priority..   after these two things, itll fall into place.

 

bacon1431

August 23rd, 2018 at 8:34 AM ^

Key Parts for me, any of which would result in me firing my employee:

- Meyer says that he met with both Zach Smith and Courtney Smith in 2009 and that they told him nothing really happened. Both Zach and Courtney told the investigation that they did not meet with him together. 

- He deletes his text messages going back farther than a year

- He does not inform OSU of Zach Smith's arrest in 2009

- He says "do it again and I'll fire you" about a million times. Never does despite further and further evidence that Zach Smith does not deserve to be employed in his position. And he had multiple contracts he didn't have to offer to Zach Smith. 

- He fired Zach Smith this year because of cumulative transgressions and not living up to the "Core Values" of Meyer's program (despite not firing him until after the media exposed Zach Smith's history, not before so there goes that reasoning). Yet, in previous employee evaluations, Meyer stated that Smith lived up to representing the Core Values. 

- Lied at media day. There's no such thing as an unintentional lie when you're asked the same question 9 times. He had plenty of opportunity to clarify what happened. 

- He knew of things that happened in 2015. Courtney Smith texted Shelley Meyer about Zach Smith's violent behavior and sent pics. Shelley Meyer said in the texts that she believed Courtney and Zach was scary. Shelley Meyer apparently does not share this information with her husband despite her knowing of the incident in 2015. This is obviously a coordinated lie between the two. 

Any of the above show he deserved to be fired. The investigation does not seem to press Meyer on any of the above. They accepted his excuses of focus on football and memory loss. The report loses all credibility when they say they were impressed with Meyer's commitment to women. How? How do you investigate all of the above, know that he knew everything he did about Zach Smith and come away impressed? It's truly disgusting. 

SlickNick

August 23rd, 2018 at 8:34 AM ^

One of the most astounding things in this report that I cannot get past is the whole "Urban Meyer takes medication that at times causes him to forget the specifics of certain situations".  Urban has been pretty open that he deals with some intense anxiety issues, so there is a pretty good chance he is prescribed xanax/ativan or something similar to help deal with these issues. Anyone in the medical community or that has been prescribed something like this can tell you there is a certain amount of memory loss that CAN be associated with taking these medications...but its the type of memory loss where you forget about making those late night nachos until you wake up in the morning with heartburn. Certainly not memory loss that causes you to forget the specifics of covering for a staff member who has repeatedly been involved in domestic abuse, sexual relations with staff members, arrests with the local police departments, drug addiction and treatment etc. 

So you tell me, at what point in this "investigation" is Urban Meyer's "memory loss" even relevant, if not to just completely cloud the situation. He didn't intentionally lie? He forgot to bring up all of these relevant details to his employers because he "occasionally forgets specific details"?  

The lengths that people in power at OSU will go to cover their collective asses is dangerous and irresponsible beyond what is being reported. What does this say to women who try to come forward against men of power in the future? You will be verbally assaulted by the fan base, bashed on social media, death threats, and dragged by this enabling culture. 

This goes so far beyond a football rivalry. What is going down at OSU at the moment is just down right unforgivable.