How vanilla will our offense be against WMU?
I ask this because I found myself daydreaming about Denard's first carry against WMU and all of the possibilities his talents bring and how Borges could make such a statement in his first game...
Then I realized this isn't what we would see back in the days where we had our confidence and swagger, when we tuned in each Saturday expecting to win most times. If Michigan is back to that level again, we should be hoping that Borges shows Notre Dame nothing but pro-set to give them that to scheme against defensively. Then we let Denard loose ala 2010, but this time under the lights.
I am guessing the O will be as vanilla as vanilla gets; probably not a snap from shotgun unless we are for some reason desperate, and hopefully little more than a live-game tryout for the starting running back position. I also predict this will cause a closer-than-it-should-be victory and no end of hand wringing on this board and elsewhere.
I want all running plays right up the middle for 4 yards, except for the five runs and five passes by Denard that he needs to get his 250/250 game and kick off his Heisman campaign.
vanilla. the fudge, nuts and cherry on top will be saved for ND
August 5th, 2011 at 10:39 PM ^
French vanilla? That sounds awfully fancy. I was thinking the extra plain over the plain.
You wouldn't like just a hint of flavor with that?
I agree with BlockM's comments. What I would like to see in the WMU game is a UM O-line that imposes its will from the beginning. If we go vanilla all game, that means that we were capable of running effectively.
Pretty unlikely that we can just ram the ball down ND's throat, so that is the point where we are likely going to have to break out the playbook.
So really, there are two reasons that I want the WMU game to be vanilla. One is the keep the good stuff stashed for ND, but the other is that a run only game is a sign of the tough kind of offense that we hope to play . . .
Handoff-handoff-fade. We win by 17. (Yes, we will make a field goal.)
I like your optimism, this would be ok by me.
Or miss 4 extra points :(
Dude, that was sooo last year.
on 3 touchdowns would be quite a trick.
Since when is scoring exactly three times the only way to win by 17?
August 6th, 2011 at 12:34 AM ^
Or get 5 safeties.
The field goal will be the cherry on top. I like those little yummy things, and I've missed them.
Mike Debord?
I used to believe the vanilla stuff too, but as a season progresses I rarely see any team breaking out the secret weapons. For the most part it is just wishful thinking on the fans part, hoping and praying the team does have a bag of tricks on the sideline, waiting for the right moment to spring onto the unsuspecting and baffled opponent. Seems the stuff of Hollywood to me.
was an exception. In the first couple of games that year, UM was real vanilla and rarely stretched the field. Then against ND, they were attacking downfield almost non-stop.
Ah, the "Oh, wide open" game. I never tire of it:
Logged in to say thanks for the video.
To give proper credit, it was WolverineHistorian who made it.
That is not completely true. I can't remember if it was last year or two years ago, but RR had certain plays and formations that we never saw early in the season.
The first one I can remember is the quick pitch to the outside. I think the media saw this play in practice one day and reported on it after which we closed our practice to the media.
I think we broke out the "Wolverine Formation" late in the season as well. I liked that formation because it allowed you to use two tight ends in shotgun giving Denard the run pass option.
I tend to agree with the previous person, that the "vanilla fallacy" is just that. When you mention certain formations that were not shown early in the season, I think those are more likely formations that RR had not installed yet. Remember, when the season started he said the offense only had about 60% of the playbook to work with, or something like that. The offense picks up new formations and plays throughout the season. So, what one fan may call "being vanilla" may just be showing the offense that has been installed so far.
I agree with the previous person that for the past several years I've heard about this "vanilla" offense and looked forward to seeing special plays unleashed later in the season, very few actually happen. Carry's teams actually did this more than RR's teams (think about the flea flicker vs. Wisconsin or the Navarre to Breaston to Navarre pass against Minnesota). Carr's teams were always good for 1-2 trick plays late in the season.
The vanilla thing is not a total fallacy. In 2009, MSU lost to CMU then unleashed an entirely different defensive scheme on us, and many thought that they lost to CMU because they didn't want to show anything. Furthermore, 2006 OSU came out swinging with a straight up passing spread in 2006 to our surprise. Plenty of teams save the good stuff for the big opponents. Heck if you want to see another example, look no further than SDSU vs Utah last year, when they unleashed a no huddle offense for the first couple of drives to Utah's surprise.
Dantonio had a few last year. He was all 2007 Les Miles last year. Hoefully he follows it up with a season like Les Miles 2008!
I hope the offense against WMU is like vanilla ice cream with vanilla morsels served over vanilla wafers.
Michigan's best chance to beat ND this year is for ND to have no idea of what is coming. I hope Borges sticks to about three formations and ten plays, and Michigan still has more than enough to overpower WMU.
I would really hope they aren't surprised by the UM offense this year. I expect them to defend UM very similarly to the way they took on Miami, though I seriously doubt Dennard will throw the same number of picks.
A good way to "have no idea what is coming" is to have someone like denard taking snaps.
I was thinking Milli Vanilli where we just fake our way through the Western game and boom drop the hammer on ND.
Borges has already said we will see more shotgun than a normal pro style offense. Don't be surprised to see the read option several times. Lots of Waggle and boot leg plays as well. He knows he has to get Denard out of the pocket to be the ultimate threat.
But I think you missed the point of the post.
Shotgun, bootlegs, etc are not what I would consider vanilla...sorry maybe I should have prefaced my comments with ice cream flavors or toppings.
The post asked "how vanilla can we make the offense against WMU in order to surprise ND", not "how vanilla is Borges' offense".
just fine...guess to answer the question IMO it will not be very vanilla. This team has been anything but Vanilla for 3 seasons...they will not be running downhill for 4 quarters.
I would love to see the running game be more North south...just dont think we have the personnel to do it. Maybe we can do it against western and eastern, but Notre Dame, MSU, OSU, NEB...no sir Denard will have to wear his cape for those games.
Definitely agree. I do think we can get by WMU/EMU without showing anything (other than Denard=fast). I also really hope we see a lot of the same offensive stuff that worked last year. Hopefully a back emerges that can take some of the load off of Denard for the rest of the schedule, but if we don't have a back that can tear apart the directional schools we're in big trouble for this season.
August 6th, 2011 at 12:06 AM ^
I would have to say you deffinately do not understand the post. It's not how vanilla will the o be all season just against WMU
Um, I do? Read my posts above that one. I said that I want a ridiculously vanilla offense against WMU and Eastern, with a return to some spread concepts and what we saw in the SDSU/Navy game last year as the norm for the B1G/ND schedule. Hence my line about leaving a RB to tear up the directionals up the gut, DR hitting the bench early against Western, ect.
You are a complete moran if you think he is arguing about the entire season.
French Vanilla. Bon Jour!
Vanilla as it needs to be. If they are making it a game, expect it to get real chocolaty.
How close the game is will dictate what Borges does. Although, I do think Borges will want to get Denard's feet wet a little to get him comfortable for the ND game.
So at that point, the game would end up some sort of swirl. I say we just add something completely out of left field (Pistol!) and make the offense Neopolitan.
I think we'll see lots of handoffs - not to be vanilla, but to see if we can get our running game going. I think we'll see lots of Denard under center, not to be vanilla, but to establish he can do it. I think it's way to late to hide the fact that Denard is anything but vanilla, but that if we can start to establish that he can do the vanilla stuff, to make everything else that more effective.
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<br>I exspect that we see some broken plays where Denard runs and I hope we see some passing plays where they give Denard a little room to run and he takes it. If that all happens, ND will have plenty to think about
I prefer chocolate over vanilla.
VANILLA..........There is no way I want to see this type of offense. A team competing for the Big Ten Championship should not have to pull out VANILLA offenses during certain weeks so that they can pull out secret weapons, or bunny's out of hats. LINE UP and run over every opponent possible. Build confidence in the players. You do not build confidence by stepping off the gas. Play ball and beat the opponent across from you!!!!
Sometimes opposing teams are good and you want to surprise them. I would say 2006 OSU was a pretty decent team, and they unleashed an almost completely new offense on us.
I think that was more true in the '04 game. They were an I-formation team all season and then suddenly were in the spread that day.