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Your complaining is becoming…

Your complaining is becoming brutal, to use someone's word.

If it's diary-worthy why not…

If it's diary-worthy why not put it there? Makes more sense than making it a sticky on the Board.

This guy?



Brilliant!

This guy?

Brilliant!

I'm with you as far as…

I'm with you as far as overpaying a bit, but laying this on Warde is mob-mentality grabbing for an easy answer. Herbert's departure raises some eyebrows given the low profile of NFL strength jobs and the rumors about what he wanted to stay, but the other guys could have all kinds of other reasons to consider leaving -- from recruiting to family reasons, climate or loving Harbaugh. I agree Manuel should be helping to keep coaches. I hope he is, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's not. But I don't think you know any more than I do.

Which is okay to acknowledge. It's not like you or I can do anything about it anyway.

The Locked In: Football…

The Locked In: Football Intel video about Grant and Michigan's defense is a lot of fun, by which I mean they're remarkably high on how well coached the unit is.

"You know why they're the least penalized team in the country? Because they're the dag-gum smartest and most well-coached team in the country."

Bummer. Maybe not surprising…

Bummer. Maybe not surprising given the coaching departures -- wasn't Jay his primary? -- or the chatter of the past few weeks, but still disappointing because of how good he looks. You know he's a 5-star to 247sports, sixth-highest rated receiver and 27th overall. Sure the two-year delay would have been less than ideal, but I'd celebrate a prospect like that any day. When was the last time we that good of a WR prospect? I don't think Peoples-Jones or Tarik Black were that high.

I see people downplaying the need for top-notch WRs, but think about the contributions of some of our greats at that position. Braylon Edwards, Anthony Carter, Desmond Howard, David Terrell. No guarantee Bair will be that good, but he's that level of a prospect.

Yeah, and MSU is favored. Go…

Yeah, and MSU is favored. Go figure.

So what are we drinking…

So what are we drinking tonight?

Competition caveats,…

Competition caveats, certainly, but Willie Heston scored the most touchdowns in the history of Michigan football, though not officially. Michigan's official stats for rushing, including rushing touchdowns, date only to 1956. I think that's also true of other offensive stats, which is surprising and disappointing considering some of the greats that leaves out -- Harmon, Oosterbaan, Friedman, Heston.

NCAA Football's Finest, published in 2002 by the NCAA and seemingly the most-referenced source on Heston stats, lists him for 72 rushing TDs during his career, which ran from 1901-1904. But there's also a footnote that the NCAA Statistics Service only found "rushing" stats for 17 of his 36 games. That means the 2,339 career yards Heston is credited with is potentially a huge undercount. The same footnote is attached to his touchdown total, so he probably also scored quite a few more touchdowns.

But even with the ones that are known are comfortably more than Corum. Touchdowns were only worth 5 points during Heston's time, so Corum does beat him for career points based on Heston's known touchdowns. Heston's known point total of 360 would have been more than Moody's 355.

The forward pass wasn't legalized until 1906, so Heston would not have had any receiving TDs. I did not find any stats on him scoring other than by rushing into the end zone.

No one else who played before 1956 ranks among the top career TD leaders. Albert Herrnstein, who played from 1899 to 1902, was the unofficial season TD leader with 26 his senior year, but of course Corum topped that this year. Heston would have the third-highest total with 21 in 1904, and his 20 in 1901 tied for fourth with Hassan Haskins' 2021 performance.

There's plenty of room for debate about whether it makes sense to compare modern football to early 20th century. Competition is one criteria. Michigan's opponents in those days included teams like Kalamazoo and Beloit -- which for all I know may have been powerhouses of the time.

But Herrnstein's unofficial still-record single-game rushing touchdown total of 7 came in 1902 against something called Michigan Agricultural. Many here know that they are the predecessor to Michigan State ... and everyone knows how bad they are.

The bad is mine.

 

The bad is mine.

 

Worship GIF

Nope, I'm talking about the…

Nope, I'm talking about the commercial for the photographer's tour business, which takes up about 3 1/2 screen depths on my computer.

I myself am in media, so I…

I myself am in media, so I understand the need for sponsors/ads. That's a huge ad at the top of this piece -- excessive, I thought, and a turn-off. Love the site.

Actually there is no…

Actually there is no objective reason win and loss percentages have to equal 100. Mathematically that's only true if they account for all games, and in all of these cases they don't.

Like Asquared, I acknowledge that the convention is to give half a credit for a tie, and it makes sense for an organization to do that when measuring one team's performance against another. Most would agree that a tie is more successful than a loss.

But it's only a convention, and it doesn't change the fact that Asquared's calculation is a more precise measure of winning percentage, and "winning percentage" more precisely describes what he is calculating. It would also be just as valid if that were the convention.

Helpful stats, but if you're…

Helpful stats, but if you're only taking the win-plus-half-ties percent of a national champ Michigan to four decimal places, you should round up to .7337. Not saying they would tie OSU ... the nice man below gave the more precise picture. Just pointing this out since we're being sticklers for numbers.

Are you Isaiah Hole?

Are you Isaiah Hole?

So relieved to see this…

So relieved to see this thread this morning. I couldn't sleep last night wondering how dbrhee was approaching this.

A thread for this? Good lord, tuck into one of the others.

So glad I read this before…

So glad I read this before watching the whole thing. I stopped after listening to about 3 minutes because that was my impression, but thanks for putting my mind at ease.

Is it? Good content, I mean…

Is it? Good content, I mean. I'd put it in one of the many other threads on this topic.

Rutgers has not played the…

Rutgers has not played the most games, though. Penn is ahead at 1,423.

Lehigh is breathing down our neck at 1,381.

One of the most enduring…

One of the most enduring rock songs of all time? Really?

I assume it's a thing at Michigan games just because it's become a thing. Way cool to have all those people singing together and that they keep going after play resumes. But the song itself -- nothing special to my ear. I honestly never heard it until last year's B10 championship. Listened to the Killers version recently and meh.

Guess I'm a codger because I think they ought to play some Dylan or Stones instead. Imagine 115,000 leaning into Like a Rolling Stone or Tumblin' Dice!

Okay, commence rolling on the floor laughter.

Don't start a new thread for…

Don't start a new thread for a question like this. Plenty of others where you could have asked it.

I must have come in late…

I must have come in late. Who are you?

Just kidding, man. Sort of. Whether conjecture or direct knowledge, I didn't see anything surprising in the OP. Seems like most/all of it has been written here previously, and it's kind of common sense, isn't it?

The one part I'd question is the bit about Manuel's job starting now. I'm sure he's been working on it from the beginning, as he should have. I mean his role is certainly central. Are you saying that whether it wraps this year will reflect on him? I'm not sure that makes sense. I have zero connections with the department or anything else, but just observing cases over the years, sometimes they drag on for years, and I'm not sure schools can do much about it.

I know how belligerent some…

I know how belligerent some of the folks here can be, but I'm still surprised at how much Thad is getting chewed up. Especially since he's right on. This isn't about whether Michigan coaches do a better job than OSU of recognizing and developing talent, or that those abilities have got the team to a point where we're better than OSU, at least head to head. Or about the value of recruiting stars or a number of other endless debates.

Thad's talking about something that's been a clear consensus here for about a year and a half -- the hope that the success of the past two years would elevate our recruiting to the level of the OSUs, Alabamas and Georgias. To the point that we would start to get our share of elite recruits, and that we could again start to attract some of the top talent from Ohio -- like we did during the Schembechler, Moeller and Carr glory years. Some held out this hope because of concern that the current formula isn't sustainable, while others just felt it would take the team to another level. I think most people agreed it would be a good thing.

The storyline went beyond that and identified a bunch of recruits considered key if Michigan were to progress this year toward elite recruiting. Then we all sat back with our bags of popcorn to watch. It's been up and down. We started slow but then landed a five-star quarterback, beat OSU for an elite Ohio running back and pulled a great group of offensive linemen and even better tight end prospects than we usually do. For weeks our class was ranked in the top two, people were predicting a top five class, and all of the talk was how we were taking that step.

Since then it -- that specific hope -- has fizzled. We've whiffed on the vast majority of top targets, who Thad listed, including Bair ... after months of commentary that at least we'd get him even if he was really a 2026. Thank goodness for the Smith brothers and Beasley. The class is still ranked 5th (247), but that's a mirage. The better measure of a class's quality is the average rating, and by that we're 13th -- about where we usually are and behind schools like USC, Florida, FSU and Auburn.

Yes, the cycle is far from over, and we did sign a few elite prospects last year out of nowhere and last minute. Yes, we still have coaches that we think are great, and that's worth a lot. Thad wasn't trying to sum up the overall fortune of Michigan football. He was talking about something pretty specific that a lot of people agreed was important and that they were following. I think it's pretty objective that he's correct in saying that right now it's not panning out. I'm sure there's a word for people who ignore the accuracy of what he's saying and blast him for it. If I cared enough I'd figure it out.

Good points, Thad. To the belligerents, I'd be glad to take some of his downvotes.

Creeper. No sarcasm.

Creeper. No sarcasm.

So Jim was obviously a…

So Jim was obviously a better runner.

Go Blue!

Do you have any basis for…

Do you have any basis for saying his family went bag chasing? If not it's crummy to besmirch identifiable individuals. I'm guessing you'll say the proof is in such an out-of-the-blue choice, but it's not. That's one possible reason, and there's numerous other ones, too. And by the way, what if they did choose to go where they'd get more money? So what? Nothing about that is against the rules now, and how many people every day take the job that offers them the most money?

Chill out. You're sounding like the panicky OSU fans we mock. It doesn't mean we got cheated every time a kid chooses another school. 

 

So we found our starting…

So we found our starting center.

Oh my God, thank you for…

Oh my God, thank you for posting this. Haven't laughed so hard for several days.

Yeah, if only they'd gone undefeated for the past decade. If only they had a sustained history of excellent football. If only the current staff was demonstrably attracting great talent and molding it into great teams. If only great prospects were banging down the door to get in, they could attract great prospects.

Oh well.

Thanks as always, Magnus.

Thanks as always, Magnus.

I think I got the second…

I think I got the second part. You spell "agree" as two words, right?

Second. APWUAIADB

I second Hunt. APWUAIADB

This one jumps us past…

This one jumps us past Florida State and Notre Dame to #3 on 247 Sports' national ranking of schools for the 2024 recruiting cycle. RB John Marshall's commitment had pushed us to 5th this morning.

Still early, so it doesn't mean a lot yet, but we could end up with a very highly ranked class this year.

Be bold and trust your own…

Be bold and trust your own judgement. Upvoted you for encouragement.

Thanks for the thread -- it…

Thanks for the thread -- it's great news -- but there's a flaw in your logic, OP, to say that staff was content with a class like 2022 every five years, as if it was an outcome they chose. I'm sure they'd prefer a more skilled collection of players every year. They just didn't get it done last year, for a number of reasons that have been hashed out here. 

Blake Corum but ... from…

Blake Corum but ... from Texas?

Three cheers

 

Three cheers

 

Its cute that you're so…

Its cute that you're so happy, but I don't come here for cute, so I gave you a Dave Hampton commemorative downvote. In 1972 he topped 1,000 yards rushing for the only time in his career but took a loss on his final carry to end up with 995. Nothing personal, but I'd get a chuckle if you fell back below 100.

Hey, I'm wondering how long…

Hey, I'm wondering how long do you expect this will go on?

So your wife looks at this…

So your wife looks at this site?

No kidding. After running as…

No kidding. After running as fast as he could to post the more premature information. And then the line about having a story ready that they are going to wait to run? The only reason to print that is to pat yourself on the back for being sensitive to the family when you're doing just the opposite.

Someone above wrote that Robertson is accurate. I don't know anything about him except that he's a punk and an asshole.

So the 6'7" tight end plays…

So the 6'7" tight end plays for Shorter College?

Here's the explanation for…

Here's the explanation for him winning, as explained by the Football Writers Association of America. Not much that most of aren't already familiar with, but it's nice to hear others talk about our excellence.

https://www.sportswriters.net/fwaa/news/2022/12/08/michigans-oluwatimi-wins-2022-outland-trophy

And here's the text of the announcement on the Rimington, awarded by the Rimington Trophy. Nice quote from Sherone.

https://www.rimingtontrophy.com/trophy/current/

Lots of players in the…

Lots of players in the portal, including quite a few 4 and 5 stars. I scrolled through the first 200 or more names and only recognized a few that Michigan was in the running for out of high school. Kevonte Henry is leaving Oklahoma after one year, and Miles Hinton and Stephon Herron Jr. are both portaling from Stanford.

Glad you pasted the Pro…

Glad you pasted the Pro Football Network or I would not have known he's from Arizona State. 

I'm sorry I have but one…

I'm sorry I have but one downvote for a post like Ghost's, aka DH.

There is no other rivalry…

There is no other rivalry. This is it.

Ouch, that's not good.

But…

Ouch, that's not good.

But thanks man.

Sorry if this has been…

Sorry if this has been covered, but is Edwards injured? Why is Stokes getting carries?

Fourth and 1. Pull a Moeller…

Fourth and 1. Pull a Moeller and pass it?

 

I'm more puzzled than…

I'm more puzzled than pessimistic. We've had every reason to believe that our QB and wide receivers were excellent -- we've seen plenty of evidence earlier in the year. Doesn't make sense that they would lose those talents, but it is weird to see this prolonged stretch of much worse play.

I expect they'll get it figured out. They're fortunate to have so many cakewalks where they can work on things. The clock is ticking, though.