December 31st, 2020 at 9:04 PM ^
What a massive indictment of Harbaugh and Warriner.
December 31st, 2020 at 9:06 PM ^
The same duo that put four linemen in the league in the last draft and are about to send up another?
Troll.
December 31st, 2020 at 9:07 PM ^
Yep. This is data point #10,000 that players don’t like Harbaugh. Until that changes, Michigan will never be great.
December 31st, 2020 at 9:12 PM ^
How do you explain Hutchinson coming back when his DC is fired?
December 31st, 2020 at 9:19 PM ^
How do you explain Hutchinson coming back when his DC is fired?
In all fairness, Hutch is not a good borderline comparison. He's a legacy. His family bleeds maize and blue. His dad is a former All American. And, if you read his announcement when he was asked about Brown getting fired he said:
I'm just here to get the team back on track regardless of who the coordinator is. I grew up 20 minutes away from Michigan, I'm a Michigan man, and I think it's my responsibility to lead this team to victory next year.
That is not typical of the average UM player.
December 31st, 2020 at 11:12 PM ^
Exactly, if anything this is one of the under-appreciated aspects of the OSU program, besides all their future 1st-round draft picks they have 80+ Hutchinson-level-attitude players on their team.
All their flashy 5-stars aside, from the 129th man on the roster bubble and all the way to the top, they bleed ohio football and dedicate everything they have to the program.
And it shows on the field.
January 1st, 2021 at 8:15 AM ^
After being in Schembechler hall for two years I can tell you this makes a huge difference. Many of you underestimate the intangibles aspects of the locker room. The culture, attitude, loyalty to Michigan are cornerstones of the program that have been lacking for years. I understand we have to broaden our recruiting pool nationally to get the best talent our nation has to offer, but that comes at a cost to the bedrock of playing for draft position rather than for Michigan. Players like Hutchinson are few and far between because besides many of the walk-ons the players do not have an allegiance to the University because honestly why would they? A lot of them come from disadvantaged backgrounds and just want to better position their families for the future. How can you blame them. The love for Michigan does not burn deep within the locker room. Anyone could have seen that on the field this year. We have to decided as a University what we the future to look like. A united decision and vision must be crafted and accepted. Our university is fragmented. A massive schism confronts like Luther leaving the Roman Catholic Church in medieval times. Who do we want to be? Maybe its not up to us. Maybe college football needs reform. Thoughts?
January 1st, 2021 at 8:28 AM ^
The culture, attitude, loyalty to Michigan are cornerstones of the program that have been lacking for years.
You mean the 2011 team that went 11-2, beat OSU, & won the Sugar Bowl wasn't any more talented than any other team in the subsequent 9 years that failed to do any of those things???
January 1st, 2021 at 8:13 PM ^
That 11 team had a ton of state of mich kids. A ton of ohio kids and a ton of Florida kids
January 1st, 2021 at 9:33 AM ^
Many folks consider Luther a hero. Maybe not the best comparison.
January 1st, 2021 at 11:46 AM ^
Impaler's analogy was a strange one, but I don't understand how his post is critical of Luther.
In any case, I'm not sure what to think of the substance of Impaler's post. Given a variety of factors--some good, some bad--I don't think that we can expect loyalty to one's university to the degree present in the 70s and 80s. I think that, today, there are exceptional cases where a university garners fervent loyalty from its players, but I think it helps to have a tradition of winning, ideally also a recent tradition of winning, and lots of high school talent in your immediate geographical footprint; a coach who is both talented and earns his players' respect also helps. Alabama checks the above boxes pretty well. OSU can fall back on more local high school talent, and almost any kid in Ohio wants to play for OSU--not Cincinnati or Miami. (And I'm sure the last 20 years have not helped us cultivate a desire to play for Michigan in the youth of northern Ohio). Given their success on the field, OSU can attract recruits from all over the country and mix them in with kids devoted to their university.
Sadly, and maybe I'm generalizing here, but I'm not sure UM's local recruits (DPJ and JLewis come to mind) have proved to be any more loyal to the program, which doesn't help. I don't know who's at fault there. It seems like the coaching staff has gone out of its way to find a number of guys who, in advance, really want to play at Michigan. It seems like Harbaugh has the respect of some players and not others. Not sure when you spent time two years in the locker room, Impaler.
Winning, of course, makes everything better.
January 1st, 2021 at 9:39 AM ^
I’m Lutheran.
January 1st, 2021 at 12:29 PM ^
A lot of them come from disadvantaged backgrounds and just want to better position their families for the future.
And this is unique to Michigan football? I tend to agree with the general point you’re making, but some of the supporting evidence is suspect.
January 1st, 2021 at 1:21 AM ^
You could put Justin Boren in the same category yet he transferred to OSU so being a legacy does not mean you are tied into a particular school.
January 1st, 2021 at 7:58 AM ^
Yabut Mike Boren was a dickhead even when he was a student at UM. He fits in well with the MAGA set in Ohio.
January 1st, 2021 at 3:17 PM ^
Im a MAGA from Ohio and been a Michigan fan for 51 years. Go to hell.
January 1st, 2021 at 11:06 PM ^
MAGAt*
December 31st, 2020 at 9:49 PM ^
In every locker room you have players that don’t like the Head Coach. What exacerbates that issue at Michigan is they aren’t winning.
When you are winning, people will put up with a lot of crap. But when you are now arguably the worst team in the B10 for 2020, a players tolerance level is going to decrease.
December 31st, 2020 at 10:16 PM ^
I have no evidence but I have a tough time believing IU players not liking Tom Allen, not alone a locker room divide.
December 31st, 2020 at 10:21 PM ^
I agree! I think that the Indiana players Love Tom Allen.
December 31st, 2020 at 11:11 PM ^
Should not be the worst team in the B1G given that Harbaugh is in his 6th year with the resources at his disposal. Sad!
January 1st, 2021 at 10:05 AM ^
Literally 3 teams in the B1G had winning records this year... almost every team fucking sucked
January 1st, 2021 at 10:36 AM ^
Oh, well that makes it okay then.
December 31st, 2020 at 9:18 PM ^
There's a divide in the locker room, just like there's a divide among the fanbase/alumni. I said the same thing in regards to McGrone leaving. There are players on this team... THAT DO NOT LIKE JIM HARBAUGH. You can neg ALL DAY. It will still remain the TRUTH lol.
December 31st, 2020 at 9:22 PM ^
There's a divide in the locker room. There are players on this team... THAT DO NOT LIKE JIM HARBAUGH.
I don't doubt you, but I wonder if it's all about JH or the other coaches? I mean if I'm an offensive player do I blame our troubles on the HC or the coordinator? Or do they realize JH is (allegedly) muddling with the play calling? On the other side of the ball Brown seems well liked, but do they blame him when they are so unsuccessful for coming up with a better plan to be successful or do they just realize we suck on that side of the ball and it's nobody's fault other than we don't have enough talent?
December 31st, 2020 at 10:09 PM ^
This isn't new though. Attrition has been a problem for Harbaugh his whole time here despite lots of different coaches coming through.
Also, I should make clear I don't care whether the players love Harbaugh or not. People keep talking about whether he's liked or not. But attrition is real, it's high at Michigan, and we probably lost our starting QB this year because of it.
January 1st, 2021 at 6:26 AM ^
Milton?
Where is he going?
January 1st, 2021 at 8:18 AM ^
Dude. McCaffrey.
December 31st, 2020 at 9:25 PM ^
Some guys just wanna get to the pros.
January 1st, 2021 at 1:01 AM ^
They've been talking about that since the Army game because they knew they weren't winning shit here after that game.
January 1st, 2021 at 8:16 PM ^
Go cry some more.
January 1st, 2021 at 9:22 AM ^
January 1st, 2021 at 10:38 AM ^
Well yeah, I'm sure that's the biggest of what they're selling because they're certainly not able to sell championships or bowl wins of any kind.
January 1st, 2021 at 12:00 PM ^
So, Michigan Football is just like Kentucky Basketball? I think that is a very, very big stretch.
December 31st, 2020 at 9:30 PM ^
I've always wondered why this matters. Who cares if you like your coach? Just trust him and listen to him.
December 31st, 2020 at 9:36 PM ^
I've always wondered why this matters. Who cares if you like your coach. Just trust him and listen to him.
It certainly does in baseball, but football is a lot different because there are way more coaches and the HC doesn't have much practice position instruction with regularity as compared to your position coach in football. But, he does set the tone for the program, has team meetings, etc. You can't get away from him. It's really his program under his direction. I guess it just depends on if you mildly dislike him or if you hate him. If you hate him, it's probably enough to leave. If you don't don't really get him or think he's weird, but you're still playing and you like your position coach, probably not.
January 1st, 2021 at 12:33 AM ^
Ever hear of "losing the team?"
Coaches that fail you and come up short on promises are neither likable nor trustable.
Imagine a coach recruiting you hyping up your role in a great program. Then you believe in him, work hard for years, only to lose to crap MSU, PSU, and escape Rutgers.
January 1st, 2021 at 1:17 AM ^
I've heard of it, but not the way I was raised. You should commit to a school and take direction from whatever coaching staff is in place. I understand that kids don't do that today, but that doesn't make it right. Makes me respect players like Hutchinson. I'm not a fan of transferring to follow a coach or to try and increase the likelihood of playing time.
January 1st, 2021 at 7:24 AM ^
Fully disagree, considering these schools and coaches have no loyalty to the kids either. It's like an employer-employee relationship. If you sign on with an employer, and find out they're crap, you have every single right to look elsewhere, just like they would dump you if they thought you were a crap employee.
Here's a scholarship Harbaugh pulled from a player that had committed for years:
https://thegamehaus.com/college-football/jim-harbaugh-removes-scholarship-from-2013-commit/2016/01/21/
That was a blessing in disguise for the player:
https://soonersports.com/sports/football/roster/erik-swenson/14066
2020
An Academic All-Big 12 First Team honoree … has started all 10 games (season opener at right tackle and last nine contests at left tackle) … his 81.0 pass blocking grade by PFF is second highest among team’s starters … has not allowed a sack on 252 pass plays.
2019
Played in 10 games ... all eight of his starts came at left tackle ... missed three of last four games, as well as Kansas contest (10/5).
2018
An Academic All-Big 12 Second Team selection … played in four games … saw action against Florida Atlantic (9/1), TCU (10/20), Kansas State (10/27) and Kansas (11/17).
2017
Played in six games (first three and three of last four) ... made OU debut against UTEP (9/2).
January 1st, 2021 at 3:52 PM ^
They can't pull your scholarship after you are enrolled. That's the school's commitment to the player. I'd like to see that reciprocated.
January 1st, 2021 at 4:17 PM ^
MGoHillbilly,
I could not disagree more. “Take direction from whatever coach” is how kids get killed at Maryland and (probably) Northwestern 20 years ago,
speaking as a former varsity Big Ten athlete I can tell you that if you think your coach is hurting your chances to get to the next level or even maximize your potential to any extent you are not going to just take direction because you committed to a school (that can and does literally tell you any lie to get you on that roster only to then do whatever they were doing to do).
My theory is that dislike of Harbaugh stems from players not understanding roster management and the process to create the schemes/play calls. Add in that they don’t relate to some aspects of his personality and the result is a bunch of players and their parents thinking he’s the problem and is not only costing them games but damaging their NFL potential.
Are they right? I don’t know.
January 1st, 2021 at 6:11 PM ^
I completely understand why people transfer or otherwise bail on their teams. I'm just saying I don't agree with it. I'd commit to a school and not the staff/scheme/odds of playing time. There should be an alternative minor league system in place for young men who are only going to college to showcase their individual talents.
December 31st, 2020 at 9:32 PM ^
(makes wanking motion)
December 31st, 2020 at 9:48 PM ^
There are some players on Alabama's team THAT DO NOT LIKE NICK SABAN. You can neg ALL DAY. It will still remain the TRUTH lol.
December 31st, 2020 at 10:30 PM ^
When you're winning, you'll deal with someone you don't like. When you're losing, you not liking them is constantly at the forefront of your mind. Not only will it be at the forefront of your mind, it may even turn into having a lack of respect. I remember reading from some members that "players quit on harbaugh this season"
People only quit on somebody when they've lost respect.
January 1st, 2021 at 8:22 AM ^
Ya but they respect him and believe he will lead them to victory and the NFL. These players are not getting recruited by Saban thinking he is warm and fuzzy. They go to Alabama because without a doubt they will play with the best and compete with the best to prepare them for the league.
December 31st, 2020 at 10:41 PM ^
This is true of any coach. Saban, Meyer, Swinney, Riley...all coaches will have players that don’t like them. But when you are winning and helping the vast majority of your players maximize their talent, the dissent remains largely silent. And if it is voiced it is immediately put down by teammates.
Harbaugh is a quirky personality and he’s not winning. That’s a dangerous combination for a coach.
A few years back when Meyer was embroiled in a controversy (not the Zach Smith ordeal) and a few former players came forward there was a quote that has really stuck with me, and it was something like this: “He’s not a good person. He’s a great coach and he will get you to do things you never thought were possible, but he’s not a good person.”
Great coaches have a way of pulling more out of their players than even the players themselves thought was possible. JH does not seem to do that. He, like my favorite coaches from my athletic career, is about the hard work, sacrifice, and pain that make you a player. “Work at your craft; Get 1% better; Keep improving every day,” are all common Harbaugh phrases. That’s not good enough to compete with the elite. We need players to make quantum leaps and become more than they even thought they could. We need players to know they are capable of so much more than they believe.
I really believe this is why we haven’t had a player sniff the Heisman for years. It’s also why the great coaches have Heisman contenders virtually every year. Even 5-star recruits need to be empowered to see beyond self-imposed limits and find another level.
December 31st, 2020 at 10:57 PM ^
I begged because of 'lol' What purpose does it serve? It's just annoying