Who gets to go to football games if crowds are limited?
Since the Governor made the statement yesterday that she didn’t expect to see full stadiums for football games this fall, how would the university determine who gets in. I’ve been a season ticket holder for 26 years and I’m not expecting to get into any games. I’m curious if the board thinks admission will be based on points, lottery, first come first serve (which I think is totally improbable) or some other method. Just looking for your thoughts.
Pretty sure it means no fans, period.
Agreed. Don’t see any way it’s anything besides an all or nothing
I think her phrase one 'we're not going to be filling stadiums'.... does that mean to the max capacity, or at all? I'm not sure.
Agreed. I think this can be read to say that IF there are fans at all there won't be completely full stadiums. Social distancing will have to be followed which won't be possible if every seat is full. I think you could see 1/4 filled or 1/3 filled stadiums. The logistics of that seem tough but if there are going to be fans, this seems most likely.
Going to the OP's original point then, how do you pick who gets to go. I suspect you'll see three things come into play. First, they'll stop the sale of single game tickets. Second, the ticket office will take volunteers for season ticket holders who want to roll their ticket money from 2020 over to 2021. Truthfully, I think you'll get quite a few takers on that one. We're always complaining about "Old Blue" and those are the most at-risk for Coronavirus. It wouldn't be a great surprise to see a big chunk of people take the roll-over option. Third, if demand is still over capacity, you'll see packages created where you get X number of games and the rest of your ticket money is rolled over or refunded. Really probably not that hard. Just an issue of logistics and figuring out how many people can be accommodated with the law and safety standards
She's a spartan, so having no fans won't be very different than a normal year.
Those with the most money
But those also may be the ones with the most risk.
The family and friends of those with the most money.
I can see spreading the students throughout the stadium; every other row and two seats between. That would give them about 25 thousand fans. Knowing Michigan, we'd probably let them in for free. No band, no cheerleaders.
And still, a lot of them wouldn't show up until 10 minutes into the game and would leave by the end of the 3rd quarter.
Only semi-/s
People who survived the virus would be an excellent PR strategy.
Frontline workers.
This as well.
They should go the other way. Only people who have the ? on game day should attend. That way, zero risk of spreading.
what is that little blue thingy in your post? a pill? a colorful amoeba?
Huh. I typed virus from my phone and that emoji popped up. May not be rendering right on different browsers.
I see a green thingy. Oh hell, is this the next blue vs gold dress debate?
Is there a real study about getting sick outside in a stadium? I'd actually like to read a scientific journal on this topic.
I'm willing to be safe but want to see a real study on the topic. Just interested.
..
I got sick outside the stadium after the OSU game last year.
some of us were getting queasy inside the stadium...
Nausea, fever, lost all sense of taste. I didn't feel like eating for days.
Michigan Stadium for football would have to be safer than Crisler for basketball ... right? Neither would compare to an open office with hundreds of people on the floor.
No science resources, but here's one from the Boston Globe:
https://www.boston.com/sports/health/2020/03/25/coronavirus-italy-champions-league
I'd expect the risk to be tolerable with some spacing in the stadium.
The stadium's lousy sight lines could be lifesaving here. One with steeper seats wouldn't allow the air to circulate as well. :)
I think outdoors in the winter is the absolute worst possible scenario for two reasons:
1) the virus can aerosolize, i.e. become airborne like common cold coronaviruses and flu viruses. This happens much easier in dry air (cold winter air is very dry) which is why those viruses are seasonal (and this one will become seasonal as well). A February game in Milan at 40 some degrees is exactly what it was described as: a biological bomb. A November game in the Big House would be a total disaster as well. Aerosolized viruses all over the place.
2) There's wind outside that can carry those aerosolized viruses from the few people that brought the virus into the stadium to every part of it. This is in contrast to an indoor stadium in which you're more likely just to infect a cluster of people around you before the virus falls to the ground. And that's why I don't think air circulation is good for the Big House. Those particles from yells and screams and coughs are going all around the stadium.
This is incorrect.
1) What's the theory that supports a hypothesis that oral aerosolization occurs more effectively at colder temps or dryer air? A cough is a cough and will aerosolize no matter what. The problem is you are within 16inches of about 5-6 people and within 8-10ft of 30 people when at a major sporting event.
2) Wind is what will HELP carry the virus away. THAT is why outside is safe and indoors is not. The wind will disperse the virus more than anything.
The problem is you can't have 10s of thousands of people in close quarters, not that it's outside. Put it this way - do you want 10,000 ppl in Crisler with the roof and windows and doors open or all closed?
The seasonality of cold and flu (and ANY airborne disease) is all about virual load and living patterns of the population. Temp and humidity are secondary coorelations (not causations)- that's why places like the american SW and SE still have a flu season inspite of it not really getting that cold in the winter.
The primary reason for seasonality of airborne disease is viral load and human activity in summer vs winter. Summertime (even in the south) means no school, offices are genereally have fewer people working (more vacations), people not only spend more time outside but if they are inside, they have the windows open a hell of a lot more often. In the winter, hundreds of people are essentially shoved into confined spaces (like schools, dorms) and that's why those spaces act like little petrie dishes.
Virual load (think parts mer million of virus) is minisule outside b/c it's open air and the wind carries it up and away- ie, disperse it. Indoors, HVAC systems just recirculate the air through out the building when the system is on. When HVAC is off, the aerosolizatized virus just stays floating in the room since there is no air flow.
WE ARE SAFE OUTSIDE IN GROUPS OF LESS THAN 50-100 IF PROPER SD IS OBSERVED and MASKS ARE WORN WHEN WITHIN 6-8FT
That's all well and good. The problem is, in the Big House you get exactly 18 inches.
you know, if hoke and brandon were still around, you'd have 18 rows to yourself.
It's not a theory, this gets proven in labs time and time again.
From a Yale professor of immunology: ""When you cough or sneeze or even talk, you're generating these droplets that are coming out of your mouth," she says. "And some of them, if you're infected, will contain virus particles. In very arid conditions, those particles lose the water vapor and they become airborne." This allows the virus to persist in the air for a long time, much longer than in summer."
Your assertion that droplets will aerosolize regardless of humidity in the air is just plain ridiculous.
And your assertion about wind as it relates to 100k people sitting in a giant bowl doesn't apply. Yes, the wind disperses the particles to all parts of the bowl-shaped stadium. It's not like you're in an open field. Literally everyone but the top row of a football stadium has thousands of people sitting near them and higher than them. So wind blows any cough right into other peoples faces. The wind doesn't suck the particles straight up.
So the best alternative to going straight up in a bowl is to go straight down which is most likely in a windless environment. Yes, in an indoor stadium, the people sitting within a small distance away from sick people are more likely to get sick because wind isn't bringing the particles away from them (even though for two hours it would be bringing particles right past them), but with wind, those sitting far away are vulnerable when they wouldn't be indoors. The whole stadium is vulnerable.
I'm glad you found an article that leads to humidity and heat being an attenuator of the virus and I can buy that, but I'm not sure it's a huge affect compared to viral load. If anything, it's an argument to humitify HVAC systems in the winter.
So wind blows any cough right into other peoples faces. The wind doesn't suck the particles straight up.
The wind will disperse it *everywhere*. Up down left right but certainly wind direction would be an issue. Would I rather be upwind or at the top of the stadium? Uh, hell yes. It's just like a fart - would you rather I fart next to you at the stadium or in Crisler? Sure, you might smell it if the wind is exactly still or in the perfect direction, but you'd probably not notice it at all or as much if it were outside. Again, I'm not advocating that 100,000 in a stadium is at all safe. But it's safer than 100,000 inside, that's for sure.
but with wind, those sitting far away are vulnerable when they wouldn't be indoors.
Would you smell my fart our doors if you were more than 6-10 ft away even if perfectly down wind? Again, would I rather be upwind? Sure. And I would NOT be going to any game with 100k indoors or out, but with proper social distancing, masks if within 6-10ft, groups of less than 50-100 in open fields are perfectly fine. Even with a consistent breeze, the wind will generally disperse the virus. So maybe 20-30k disperese thru the stadium is OK?
I loved how this dude was COMPLETELY wrong
Lousy sight lines? Do you have the virus?
This is impossible.
I have it on good authority that every country in the world had shut down and started test and trace at this point outside of the United States of Blompf.
It was obvious in January that this was going to be a once in a century (hopefully) pandemic, so how on earth could a soccer match be held on February 19th in Europe?
I've read articles where they think the Athletic Madrid @ Liverpool match was a big spreader of covid-19 as well.
You are, in general, a lot less likely to catch the virus outdoors. But a place like Michigan Stadium where you're packed like sardines in the seats might be an exception to that. There's also the restrooms and concourses, and the giant mass of humanity that walks down Hoover St. before and after games...
Yeah, it might not be that bad if everyone is all spread 6'ish feet apart inside stadiums, but all of those people still have to pass through the small entrances from the concourse to the bowl. Plus, there's railings everywhere. And that's all after everyone waits in some sort of line to pass through narrow security entrances into the stadium. That's where you'll have your greatest risks of infection.
I know in my seats my body is touching the person in front in back and both sides of me at some point. Also I’m sure all the yelling of people in close proximity would spread the virus quite easily.
I saw a frat guy blow chow on a parent’s lap during a parents weekend.
Hopefully soon but I'm still waiting on my grant proposal to study whether football fans get sick outside of the stadium so I can get a peer reviewed study in the literature.
I think the case study that comes closest to the stadium scenario is the 1918 Philadelphia war bond parade. About 200,000 people packed the streets to watch it. Three days later, every hospital in the city was packed with flu patients. In the next month, over 10,000 Philadephians died from the flu. St. Louis, which cancelled it's war bond parade (and had about the same population) only had 700 flu deaths that year.
Check out the picture in this link. It reminds me somewhat of a football Saturday in Ann Arbor: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/12/pandemic-parade-flu-coronavirus/
I can't see any way I'll be comfortable attending a game this fall. And this makes me sad.
Doesn't matter if it's inside or outside if you are packed in butt to butt.
So she has decided to limit the number of fans that attend games if we have them? Is that her final decision or something she is looking into.
I heard she will pick the starting QB this year. Maybe call a few Don Brown blitzes.
S t u d e n t s Only.
Go Blue.
I agree, problem solved
They don’t even fill up their section as it is.
pleeeeenty of room
Actually the section is usually very close to full after the first 5 minutes or so of the game. The students push their way down and the first 30 rows have wayyyy too many people compared to seats. So even when it’s completely packed, the top rows will look empty or somewhat bare.
Agreed.
it makes sense though - Warde has said you can’t have sports without students on campus. If the same group of people are in the stadium, it shouldn’t matter. Plus, there is plenty of room to spread out.
I have season tickets and a son at U of M. I will gladly sit home if he gets to go.
So you will be ok but you don't care if he gets sick.... good dad.
uh, if he's already on campus, and hanging around the same people, his risk in the stadium isn't that different than anywhere else.
He's probably more at risk being in his dorm than outside in a students-only crowd.
Over 50% of deaths have come from nursing homes ... doubt an 18-22 year old is at much risk even if he gets the damn virus, which isn't guaranteed.
Well once Michigan’s Supreme Court follows Wisconsin’s lead, everyone will be able to attend games this fall.