WebbBits
Went thru this weeks recruiting bits on Webb's podcasts and a few nuggets of interest:
- Crawford - Sam as been told by west coast guys Oregon has stop pursuing Crawford.
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I noted in the "guess the 3rd commit Mitchell hinted at" prediction thread last week I thought it was Crawford - it ended up being Pie... but it sounded like a "non commitable" for Pie. Pie's decision is now pushed out to NSD as it would read he wants to be here but we have to see if he can fit in the class. (my reading of it anyhow) Mitchell said a "4th" was close and that is his position group - Crawford could be a silent by this point.
- Delance - Sam feels good BUT also says Texas insiders feel very good about him as well.... while most fans think LSU is the one to beat.
The combined Brian/Ace crystal ball went to UM yest for Delance - that's one mighty ball but only 1 thus far. I'd still like to see a Lorenz and/or Wiltfong ball head to UM but our questions will be answered Jan 2.
- Gary - Webb has not spoken to mom yet about new DC but hopes to today.
Not much new here. By the way (maybe it was posted on board this summer) one of the guys at "The Opening" which is the big Nike summer event said Gary was the best prospect at any position he has seen there in 5 years. Wow. Guy said he is not just a physical force but a student of game.
- Davis - Webb said Davis is going to go til NSD. UM may not have a spot for him by then.
It sounds like if Delance is not a Wolverine next week UM might not take another OL because too many coals in fire.
- Nauta - as everyone else thinks, Sam also thinks GA. Says GA insiders are very confident yada yada
- Mathis - Sam "feels good".
This has been a very quiet recruitment, I barely ever hear anything about him. Been projected to FL (who does use TE a lot with Nuss) but like Davis and Jones for UM, Mathis has been projected to UF a long time but has not pulled trigger. I think the situation here is a lot like Davis.... will there be room for a non Nauta TE? They would of course make room for Nauta, but Chase Allen and Mathis it depends on moving parts. Is it better to take Pie AND Crawford or give the Pie spot to a TE not named Nauta ...or heck a defensive player. Thats my reading anyhow.
- Long - WA is a very serious threat, he really likes WA. Long goes to Italy (?) a few days after his official to WA mid Jan so Sam expects a decision in those few days.
As Brian noted pulling a guy right after an official elsewhere is tough. I'd expect a lot of troops including Jim himself in Long's home a few hrs after he gets back from his official!
December 23rd, 2015 at 2:36 PM ^
I laughed out loud at this Rob. You are obviously not a parent.
December 23rd, 2015 at 3:16 PM ^
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December 23rd, 2015 at 12:57 PM ^
"you have a bit of a tendency to shoot from the hip. "
...as opposed to the 95%+ of people who had never heard of Brown's name til Sunday afternoon but within 5 minutes roundly cheered the hire based on 4 paragraphs on the front page and 1 statistic "#1 D in 2015!"? Yeah.... I'm the one guy on the site who shoots from the hip. hah.
I actually had an opinion (right or wrong) because I actually knew a bit (not all) of his history prior to Sunday 5 PM. Looks to me today a wrong opinion but it wasnt based on 4 paragraps read 3 minutes earlier on front page.
kettles...black...
My comments about the "freezing out" are based on Ace's well researched work last summer (w/ 234 comments) on how Jim did things at Stanford plus early returns at UM which show a signs of similar outcomes. It's not based on 1 player's situation.
http://mgoblog.com/content/considerable-attrition-stanfords-2010-recrui…
December 23rd, 2015 at 1:04 PM ^
December 23rd, 2015 at 1:04 PM ^
I get a very distinct WIAB sense from this guy.
December 23rd, 2015 at 2:00 PM ^
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:22 AM ^
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:33 AM ^
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:46 AM ^
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:40 AM ^
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December 23rd, 2015 at 12:31 PM ^
Huh? These are talented athletes but they are high school KIDS. You don't feel bad for a kid who might get shafted by an experienced, highly compensated adult professional??
Having integrity costs very little. You know, doing the right thing when nobody else is looking.
I have no idea about what is going on with Scott's, Enis', or anyone else's specific recruitment, and it's none of my business.
Yet, in general, I do expect that the coaching staffs of my university's athletic teams conduct themselves in an open and honest way with kids that they are recruiting. Winning is not so important as to compromise values.
If they want someone, tell them and offer them. If a kid is a Plan B, then be up front and tell them. IF, in fact, they offer someone and then change their mind, at LEAST let the kid know with adequate notice so as to allow the kid to have adequate time to make alternate plans.
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:42 AM ^
Love the post content, don't love the Scott commentary. Call it what you will, but Great Authority has declared that the slow play is grade related.
You may have a legitimate beef with the tactic with respect to Enis. But for Scott I think you're just off base.
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:53 AM ^
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December 23rd, 2015 at 11:59 AM ^
December 23rd, 2015 at 12:33 PM ^
I think kids who are "wait listed" as you describe (yet still committed) would be out taking lots of visits to get their backup plans ready. Like David reese did when it was clear we would not take him EE and he was no longer a primary focus.
If commit has been told offer is conditional or at risk ... he would be actively lining up backup plans via officials after he commits to UM. You dont need to be a fly on wall - you can just observe in their action how they view the "commitment". To that end Enis / Weaver didnt visit anyone for months after commitmment - Enis only began visiting elsewhere 2 weeks ago (after apparently being "frozen" out of communication per an Ace story), and Weaver about 3 weeks ago. Scott hasnt visited anyone since he commited in Aug. Meanwhile, reese was out there taking visits and communicating with other schools for a long while.
December 23rd, 2015 at 12:35 PM ^
I don't think it's that difficult to be honest ... for coaches and recruits.
December 23rd, 2015 at 4:07 PM ^
December 23rd, 2015 at 1:25 PM ^
December 23rd, 2015 at 3:00 PM ^
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December 23rd, 2015 at 3:19 PM ^
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:06 AM ^
Didn't want to start a whole new topic but on another section of the show Sam mentioned that Chase Winovich is practicing at BUCK now. This is in addition to the Jones to ILB reports from yesterday.
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:10 AM ^
the work you put in is much appreciated!
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:11 AM ^
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December 23rd, 2015 at 11:19 AM ^
in this class - especially with what's happened with the 2013 class. But if the possibility of Wheatley to OL is real, then I guess I can see it.
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:45 AM ^
Yep 2013 OL ....remarkable it's down to 2 out of 6 guys. And with pursuit of Texas center 1 of those 2 doesn't seem like a trusted agent. So that might leave Dawson as the only guy who does much before he leaves. OL is notoriously difficult to project to next level but just can't go 1 out of 6, or 2 out of 6 in a position group like that.
December 23rd, 2015 at 12:51 PM ^
end up being the olineman? I realize he wouldn't be in the 2016 recruiting class but in the grand scheme of 85 scholarships, the grad transfer would count. Center is a huge position of need if Kugler isn't ready.
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:20 AM ^
First, thanks for doing all this work so lazy asses like me can reap the benefits.
Second, Sam's good feeling (in the gut?) about Mathis is sort out of the blue for me. That's an interesting development.
Last, agree on the slow-play of at least one recruit. Brian/Ace pointed out early on this was part of the bargain with JH but it just doesn't sit right.
December 23rd, 2015 at 12:06 PM ^
Yes ... I barely hear anything about Mathis ever in anyone's roundups so it was a nice nugget. I had just conceded him to UF before listening to the podcasts.
Appears he is for FL what a guy like Jones has been for us - a long time lean who never pulls the trigger and now might end up somewhere else (with Jones, Notre Dame has entered the fray to be a strong contender).
p.s. I have zero issue with slow play for recruits who want to commit but we dont know if we have room - all schools do it.. Everyone is in a tier.... and I think most kids realize that.
I don't even really have TOO much issue with accepting a commit ....and then down the road telling them we are giving your spot to someone else. As long as it doesn't happen say late Jan and most of thats kid's other options are already gone as other schools fill up their classes.. Others might have more issue with ever going back to pull an offer but I'd call that more of a gray area.....timing really matters in that regard. If you do it in Nov v Jan it affects a kid a lot less earlier.
What I do think is a bad look is any guy we have committed who we just stop communicating with. That is a bad look. I get the "take a hint!!" card but thats not a way to operate. Again not SPS specific but it seems to be a way of operation at both Stanford and w/ some kids already at UM.
December 23rd, 2015 at 4:27 PM ^
The thing about it is we won't really know what's going on. Harbaugh can't talk about recruits, and I don't see a kid telling Rivals "Yeah Harbaugh said I could commit, but I'm not the top of the recruiting board so maybe I will be pushed out of the class later on." Obviously if that's the case, I don't see it being talked about by the kid.
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:21 AM ^
just by reading the "tea leaves"
Man, this recruiting class is really turning out to be special. Go Blue!
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:24 AM ^
I'd rather take two WRs than a TE if we miss on Nauta and Mathis with all the moving over of players to TE we're doing. Taking Pie Young and crawford would be good. Mitchell, Hawkins, Crawford, Young, and Johnson would be one of the best WR hauls in the country.
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:52 AM ^
Gruden would totally love it.
December 23rd, 2015 at 5:32 PM ^
grinds my gears.
December 23rd, 2015 at 12:14 PM ^
Also some speculate that some of those guys may end up as DBs, specifically 1 of the NJ wideouts.
I think a lot depends on what they think of McKeon and Bunting as a pair in 2017....as Wheatley looks to be heading to OL. You can play a TE early IF he is more of say a Butt level prospect than Bunting level....so if you get a high ceiling guy in 2017 class he could play early like Butt and Funchess did. So you debate Mathis / Allen vs what can you get in 2017 at TE. Unfort 4 of the top 5 TEs in 2017 class already commited. Will be interesting to see how it shakes out.
December 23rd, 2015 at 1:26 PM ^
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December 23rd, 2015 at 2:58 PM ^
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December 23rd, 2015 at 11:40 AM ^
Adding guys like Crawford and Long would be awesome. Not only are they dynamic players, but pulling two of the better players out of CA will be great for recruiting that area.
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:47 AM ^
Many thanks for the Bits and takes Alum96 and other fellow Wolverines. Always interesting. With gratitude, wishing you all happy holidays and a great 2016. It is happening and NSD is going to be a blast.
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:53 AM ^
Back in the day, Brian had a damn good polemic against over-signing (and grey-shirting). I still hold onto those posts as canon.
I just wish our mgoPatriarch could give us some kind of explanation as to why this class isn't as Darwinian as it seems.
December 23rd, 2015 at 1:07 PM ^
Managing recruits isn't the only thing with a Darwinian feel. If this class does indeed reach 27, no less than 11 current scholarship players will be moving on – more if additional grad transfers are accepted as well. Scanning the depth chart leads me to believe that there's likely to be several recent contributors and/or underclassmen pushed out via medicals or early transfers.
As exciting as the best case scenarios are for the upcoming recruiting class, I can't help but feel bad about some of the inevitable attrition that this signals. Given his previous stance on similar issues that have occurred at other schools, I will also be curious to see Brian's take on this once it's all shaken out.
December 23rd, 2015 at 1:35 PM ^
December 23rd, 2015 at 1:49 PM ^
I absolutely disagree with the either/or. If by aggressive you mean telling a kid that he has a scholariship here, and then 10 months later not acknowledging him, then sure, I guess that's aggressive. But I'm sure we can gather fifty other adjectives to define that behavior before we get to aggressive.
I understand that some of the competitve teams in the NCAA practice this, but it doesn't make it right, nor necessary to be a good team. I'm just hoping the scholy offers were more of a jumping the gun to get some recruits over getting no recruits before the 2015 season. If so, I regret it, but at least understand. Just hope it's not a practice for the future.
December 23rd, 2015 at 2:30 PM ^
December 23rd, 2015 at 2:41 PM ^
I think he is just acknowledging the reality that that is a very competitive business and that, until the NCAA enforces rules against doing this, you are putting your school at a competitive disadvantage if you do not. I don't have to like it but I acknowledge that's a reality.
December 23rd, 2015 at 2:04 PM ^
I think the coaches recruited to this class size with a good view of who would be looking to leave and who was going to get a fifth year or not.
We obviously won't know everything, but typically a new coaching staff means a lot of transfers, we haven't necessarily seen that yet, but I think it's coming.
There's no real reason yet to think this isn't above board.
December 23rd, 2015 at 4:17 PM ^
I'm sure the staff has a clear idea of who's returning and who's not, and are recruiting with the benefit of that knowledge. Nor do I want to suggest that players are being driven out. If a kid literally sees the “writing on the wall” (his name at the bottom of Harbaugh's posted depth chart in the locker room), and wants to actually play organized football before his eligibility expires, then transferring out is their only real option.
I'm just pointing out that there's gonna be a lot of attrition between now and next fall – I won't be surprised if that includes a few guys that are currently assumed to be returning contributors next year. As several others have suggested here, we'd better get used to it. If Michigan wants to compete on the highest levels, roster management is going to be a big part of that going forward. At least the staff apparently makes it crystal clear as to where everyone stands within the parameters of the highly competitive culture they're creating. Harbaugh seems like a straight shooter to a fault - I highly doubt any impending transfers/unrenewed 5ths are being blindsided. Hopefully the same is true of the lower ranked recruits in this class.
December 23rd, 2015 at 9:31 PM ^
December 23rd, 2015 at 5:56 PM ^
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December 23rd, 2015 at 12:02 PM ^
stopped. Just tell offered kid that you have an offer, we like you, but we cannot accept your commitment yet.
What do these "distanced" recruits talk to their parents, friends and coaches?
JH has done great things here but if there is one thing to correct, please stop this kind of practice.