U of M Fraternities Damage 2 Northern Michigan Resorts $50,000.00 Damages.
I was a little shocked and so disappointed when I read this article. This is is not something I would ever expect from the Univeristy of Michigan Student Fraternities and apparently more than one Fraternity was involved with $50,000.00 in damages.
This is something we criticize MSU, OSU for when vadalism occurs after a hugh bowl win. What happened here? U of M has more class than this!
Wow - What is going on here?
I have personally stayed at these resorts had a great time, partied and we have never left damages in our wake of the groups I was with.
This is bad!
Edit: I am more surprised at some of the posts on here thinking that this is not University of Michigan or Mgoblog related. I have seen too many posts of stupid student activities of MSU and OSU starting fires, etc. after winning a bowl game and these same people on here believe that $50K in damages caused by Fraternities of the U of M is not worthy of being on the board and that it does not have an affect on the U of M. Hopefully not a lasting affect, but it does when it is highlighted in the news that these students are from the University of Michigan that caused this kind of damage to the personal property of Resorts in Northern Michigan and if you think that this will not be in the news nationwide you are under estimating social media.
January 21st, 2015 at 9:21 AM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 9:35 AM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 9:57 AM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 9:24 AM ^
OP, your stated estimate of the damages has too many significant digits. I recommend lopping off the decimal and subsequent zeros.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:15 AM ^
The dollar amount reported is from more than 1 article. It is the current amount being reported and was with some photos of damages caused. It could end up being higher or lower when the estimates come in, but that is the current estimated amout of 50K, I did add the decimal point, maybe you missed it.
January 21st, 2015 at 9:27 AM ^
So I am responding a little late to the thread and the hate session but wanted to point out a couple things for everyone on the board 1) this happens every single year 2) the fraternities budget these damages (probably around 15k not 50k) into their "ski trip" planning 3) other than the pain in the ass factor, the hotels typically sue the fraternity or settle for some amount that allows them to rennovate for free and for reasonable lost income from the condos being out of comission..I am not condoning this behavior as its idiotic, moronic and juvenile, but this is nothing new and has been going on for about 10 years..interestingly enough many fraternities (including mine) stopped going on these trips as a result of the damages and the liabilities associated
January 21st, 2015 at 9:38 AM ^
I have been in very large crowds (30 - 40 people) at the Boyne Highlands Resorts and we never needed to budget for damages and left without having any damages. We were young and partied alot and yet we were able to maintain control and respect the property of others.
So, based on your saying the Fraternities plan for this is ridiculous! Based on this the most important thing I can do for my daughter when whe attends the U of M is to ensure that she does not join any Fraternity, consensus on this board is that some of these frat's are the worst part of the University of Michigan.
January 21st, 2015 at 9:46 AM ^
.... Let's see... Fraternities that generally have a budget large enough for ski trips are about 100+ members.... add in their dates... you get about 200 people (A LOT larger than your 30-40 people)... add in the budget for alcohol... you probably get around 40-50 handles/50ish cases of beer...so
YES YOU BUDGET FOR COLLATERAL DAMAGE. It's common sense.
Secondly, your daughter wouldn't be joining a Fraternity unless it's a professional one. She would be in a Sorority, which do not host parties/book ski trips like this.
Talk about overblowing a situation.
January 21st, 2015 at 9:54 AM ^
I don't give a fuck if it is 500 people, don't damage other people's shit! A broken lamp/window is one thing, but destroying a property is quite another. The fact that they actually budget for hotel damages is fucked up to begin with. It's like saying, we know that you're going to get shitfaced and act like a goddamn animal, so we set some money aside.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:00 AM ^
If you can get 500 shit faced people to all act accordingly without the safety net of budgeting for potential damage, props to you man. You're a true champion. This is a college party, not some wine and cheese night.
As I said in a prior post, 50k is ridiculous and the frat is paying for it. It's not like they're getting away for it.
This news will last for maybe a week. God ain't smiting UM for it, so let's all take a deep breath.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:17 AM ^
You've never been to a nightclub or bar with 100's of people in it? Why aren't those people breaking shit and causing damage? Probably because they know that those actions are socially unacceptable and have consequences.
Why do the people involved in this situation think differently?
January 21st, 2015 at 10:53 AM ^
They arent breaking shit because there are very very large bouncers there who will punch you in the face if you decide to do so...and dont tell me they wont harm you, because that would mean you have never been in a bar
January 21st, 2015 at 11:21 AM ^
for bouncers, people would just act like animals?
This line is reasoning is fucked up.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:38 AM ^
When you're between 18-22 yrs old and the only people enforcing anything are your peers... yeah people will act dumber than usual.
Stop being so naive. People do stupid shit. When you have a lot of people self-policing themselves with tons of booze, you will have lots of potential damage. Hence the need for a budget needed for repayment in case.
What is so hard to understand about this?
January 21st, 2015 at 12:05 PM ^
So not ancient. And I went to some pretty insane parties in my late teens / early 20's. Plenty of booze, drugs, and whatever else. Of course some things got broken. A lamp here or there, maybe a fist through a wall, stuff like that. Certainly nothing that would require a budget line item to pay for.
I guess my main issue here is with the scale of the damage. Breaking something on accident happens. But damages that run into the $1,000+ range are usually the result of intentional behavior.
But you're right in that college age people do stupid shit, no matter what school they're from.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:47 PM ^
That in my college days when we threw parties we never budgeted for potential damage.
Largely because people who were prone to do a lot of damage were never invited in the first place.
I get that frats don't control their members the same way. Explains why I never joined a frat.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:38 PM ^
When you have a lot of people self-policing themselves with tons of booze, you will have lots of potential damage. Hence the need for a budget needed for repayment in case.
Sounds more like a need to not have a lot of people with tons of booze self policing.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:03 AM ^
Well, your daughter is a girl so if it is a social fraternity, she will not be able to join anyway. She will be able to join a sorority.
Plus some facts about these Greek you hate:
January 21st, 2015 at 10:10 AM ^
I should have used Fraternity/Sorority, I have been hearing alot of bad publicity from either and just didn't do the slash Sorority in posting. We all make a few mistakes, one I have never made and am quite proud of is that I have never destroyed another mans property even while being very drunk.
The most damage I have ever done is maybe a little skinny dipping or streaking a fairway while in Northern Michigan at a resort, never left property damage and have always respected another man/womans property.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:40 PM ^
Are all frats involved in such reprehensible behavior? No absolutely not. But is there a persistent problem that is not being adequately addressed internally by their self-appointed oversight committee (IFC)? Sure seems like it.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:01 PM ^
Rape is awful.
It also very sadly occurs on college campuses. However, the data (very limited due to the fact that almost no one studies it without an agenda) I have seen does not suggest that rape occurs significantly more often in greek life than it does in the rest of an average student body. Sadly, bad apples exist everywhere. What this does suggest is that rape is not a greek life caused problem, it is a human problem. If you have other data from an unbiased source, I would be happy to see it and discuss it.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:16 PM ^
Someone else did. I just reponded to it and only because it is a problem on University Campuses, but it is also a widespread problem in everyday life and not just on Universities. This agian was not pertinent to this article at least I am hoping that this was not involved in the drunk and disorderly, it was not reported. So no this really should not have been brought up in this topic.
But it is also a topic that should never be ignored whether you have a son, daughter or both.
January 21st, 2015 at 4:03 PM ^
if every source that doesn't support your point of view is a priori dismissed as biased, what is there to discuss? What's the source for saying almost no one studies it without an agenda? What if the agenda is "let's find out the answer to the question of whether rape is disproportionately common among fraternity men compared to non-frat counterparts on campus"?
Rape is inherently tough to study, no doubt. But there is plenty of peer-reviewed academic literature out there in the journals supporting the basic premise that rape is more likely by fraternity-associated men than other college men.
Three minutes of Googling netted this paper: Foubert, J. D., Newberry, J. T., & Tatum, J. L. (2007). Behavior differences seven months later: Effects of a rape prevention program on first-year men who join fraternities. NASPA Journal, 44, 728-749.
which cites to a couple of studies, mentioned in this passage:
Among men on college campuses, fraternity men are more likely to commit rape than other college men (Bleeker & Murnen, 2005; Boeringer, 1999). Thus, rape prevention efforts often target fraternitymen (Choate, 2003; Larimer, Lydum, Anderson, & Turner; 1999;Foubert & Newberry, 2006). Compared to their peers on college campuses, fraternity men are more likely to believe that women enjoybeing physically “roughed up,” that women pretend not to want sex but want to be forced into sex, that men should be controllers of relationships, that sexually liberated women are promiscuous and will probably have sex with anyone, and that women secretly desire to be raped (Boeringer, 1999). Beyond the aforementioned quantitative findings, qualitative research suggests that fraternity culture includes group norms that reinforce within-group attitudes perpetuating sexual coercion against women. These cultural norms have the potential toexert powerful influences on men’s behavior (Boswell & Spade; 1996).
The cites for the Bleeker and Boeringer papers are:
Bleeker, E. T., & Murnen, S. K. (2005). Fraternity membership, thedisplay of degrading sexual images of women, and rape myth acceptance. Sex Roles, 53,487–493.
Among men on college campuses, fraternity men are more likely tocommit rape than other college men (Bleeker & Murnen, 2005;Boeringer, 1999). Thus, rape prevention efforts often target fraternitymen (Choate, 2003; Larimer, Lydum, Anderson, & Turner; 1999;Foubert & Newberry, 2006). Compared to their peers on college cam-puses, fraternity men are more likely to believe that women enjoybeing physically “roughed up,” that women pretend not to want sexbut want to be forced into sex, that men should be controllers of rela-tionships, that sexually liberated women are promiscuous and willprobably have sex with anyone, and that women secretly desire to beraped (Boeringer, 1999). Beyond the aforementioned quantitativefindings, qualitative research suggests that fraternity culture includesgroup norms that reinforce within-group attitudes perpetuating sexu-al coercion against women. These cultural norms have the potential toexert powerful influences on men’s behavior (Boswell & Spade; 1996).
January 21st, 2015 at 5:51 PM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 1:04 PM ^
But don't think for a minute I have not thought about this everytime I consider my daughters education and the college she will be attended. She is beautiful and smart and that makes the college rape statistics even more scary has the parent of a daughter.
I have instilled great commen sense in her and am grateful that her studies seem to take up the majority of her time as a teenager. Any parent of daughter would be concerned with the statistics of rape that are at all University's. I didn't bring this up because it was not pertinent to the article of the Fraternity Damage. This is always a concern for a parent and should be a concern for parents of sons as well, I have two grown sons that have never raped a girl, this is something I am proud of as well.
Choosing my daughters University will be her final decision and right now she has her heart set on the U of M.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:13 PM ^
Valid rape statistics... now there's a can of worms you don't wanna open on a blog...
January 21st, 2015 at 1:26 PM ^
i don't think it's right to extoll the benefits of frat culture without mentioning the elephant in the room - that's why i brought it up.
i have a daughter, and i think this is on the mind of every father when the subjects of frats comes up.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:14 PM ^
Ah yes I was wondering how soon the "rape culture" meme would pop up.... 200 posts. Not bad.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:18 PM ^
The problem is that instead of identifying individual responsible actors you're placing bad actions across an entire group of people who are extremely different. It might not outright be as bad as doing the same thing for race (or gender, age, etc.) but it's still stereotpying individuals based on a single characteristics or association.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:23 PM ^
i agree with that. that's why i didn't make a stereotype, but rather identified that it's a small minority behaving badly. my critique is the supposed "oversight" by IFC and that the culture persists despite it being a known issue for many years.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:30 AM ^
then you've just made a bad story worse
January 21st, 2015 at 12:30 PM ^
There is a lot more gray area in this than people realize looking at it on the surface from the article that reports on the incident and the amount for damages.
This type of thing has been going on since I went to UM and was in a fratenity ('90, and I have it on good authority it isn't something we started at that time, far from it) and will continue to occur, as it does at all schools, amongst all greek communities or many large contingents of traveling/road-tripping/partying students. I have seen, experienced and at times participated in similar hijinx (though never in intentionally destroying/damaging property and never on that scale) on team road-trips, high school road trips, fraternity formals, post-graduate road trips to Vegas or New Orleans for Jazz Fest, hanging with bands on tour. This isn't at all limited to fraternities, though they do present some of the largest/worst examples due to the number of people and budgets involved.
Is this a particularly egregious example? Yes, indeed it is.
Are the groups/people involved irresponsible, immature, over-privileged and under-punished? Yes, but unfortunately they are just being groomed to take their place in the real world in that respect....sadly for many this behavior and attitude will continue at this level past graduation as the only lesson they will take from this is that with enough money, you can get away with whatever you want.
Are the hotels hapless victims in all this that are going to lose a ton of money? No way, or quite simply they would have stopped booking these types of groups long ago or would police them better. Many resports I stayed at that didn't want to deal with this sort of thing monitored the situation, checked it when necessary and booted us unceremoniuosly and without hesitiation if it continued...without refund and righfully so. In a perfect world this wouldn't be necessary, but alas......world not perfect. In all likelihood, the hotel will inflate the amounts and be compensated well in excess of the actual damages/lost revenue and labor costs, they are well equipped to make that happen and no doubt practiced in that process.
The real losers in all this are the people that have to clean up after the whole mess and deal with the feces and vomit and whatever other aftermath there might be, who won't see an extra dime or bit of appreciation for their troubles.
January 21st, 2015 at 9:28 AM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 9:31 AM ^
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January 21st, 2015 at 9:37 AM ^
I don't really see the value of a post like this. It's a fact that has little to do with the University or sports in particular, and as we've seen just leads to fights and internet tough guys/moral police showing up. I know this isn't politics precisely, but topics like this might as well be treated as such because they never lead to anything constructive. The idiots that caused this damage don't care what people on this blog think, won't reform because of some pithy remark made by someone here, and unlike with a game or player, there isn't much room for debate except "this is terrible" vs. "what do you expect from X?".
January 21st, 2015 at 9:56 AM ^
as of 9:55 am this thread has over 100 comments and over 3,800 views.
Page views = ad revenue. Ergo, this thread creates value for the blog.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:23 AM ^
By this logic, I could create a post with naked pictures of Kate Upton, or some huge political rant, or any number of other things that would drive pageviews for Brian well above the damage some dumb college kids did at a rented house.
This apparently is of interest to people, but I kinda doubt Brian is going to rake in the advertising bucks from a bunch of people defending and attacking the Greek system at Michigan and what it says about society at large that drunk 21-year-olds break stuff.
January 21st, 2015 at 9:39 AM ^
I was a member of Sigma Alpha Mu at UM, and I am extremely disappointed in my fellow Sammies. I was part of the prior version of the house, the one that folded when our house burned down (it was during the summer and we weren't there, so it wasn't us). I never met any of the new kids from the recolonized house, but I am still thoroughly disappointed in these guys. I will be curious to see the next email from National as well as from the local chapter, to see how they address this issue. They sure as hell won't be getting any $ from me to cover the cost of this, they should have to pay out of their own pockets.
January 21st, 2015 at 9:42 AM ^
Something like spending spring break doing community service in northern Michigan sounds about right. There is nothing surprising about this but there should be a punishment that leads future groups to think about their actions.
January 21st, 2015 at 9:45 AM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 9:46 AM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 9:52 AM ^
I will say, I found the post interesting. I didn't mind clicking and reading . . . thanks for posting. I also was interested to get both sides of the story, so I went to their website to see if Sigma Alpha Mu had any response. Nothing so far, although this doesn't seem to fit well with the mission statement at their national website:
Sigma Alpha Mu's Mission is to foster the development of collegiate men and our alumni by instilling strong fraternal values, offering social and service opportunities, encouraging academic excellence and teaching leadership skills. We will continue to attract members of all beliefs who appreciate our great heritage as a fraternity of Jewish men.
Looking forward to the spin on how this kind of weekend instills "strong fraternal values," or offers "service opportunities," or teaches "leadership skills." I suppose how they respond to this will give the opportunity for these kinds of goals to happen.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:08 AM ^
In addition to Michigan alumnus and ESPN reporter Adam Schefter, Sigma Alpha Mu claims to have some impressive and interesting alumni -- from Hank Greenberg, Ernie Davis, Dave Bing, former NBA Cmmissioner David Stern, sportscaster Marv Albert and Bob Dylan to a couple who, later in life, didn't quite measure up to that mission statement -- Michael Milken and Bernie Madoff.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:02 AM ^
I wonder if Dean Wormer will put these guys on double secret probation.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:08 AM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 10:09 AM ^
Frats....Never understood them
January 21st, 2015 at 10:10 AM ^
January 21st, 2015 at 10:13 AM ^
Destruction of hotel property is only cool if your Led Zeppelin.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:14 AM ^