I like youer spehling
Sorry Guys, The Writing is on the Wall
It seems to me that a lot of people think that by canning RR that our team will become a national title contender sooner rather than later. If RR is gone after this year it will mean more players transferring out, the players that stick it out will be forced to learn another system, and our weak defense will go through yet another change. So whether we keep RR for one more year or get a new coach 2010 does it really matter in the scheme of things? Give RR one more year to prove that things can be turned around and give our QB situation another year to mature.
A lot of people are just unhappy with what he's doing at this point, on various levels (Personel decisions, scheme, what ever). Such as myself, but i dont think he should be canned, infact i want to see his offense in its WVU form here. A lot of people are "in a fight" with him to say, we don't want a divorce, we just dont want to rake the leaves every 2 days.
Now i know some people, such as the OP here, are essentially calling for it, I think a lot of people have had their complaints taken further than they meant.
The only writing on the wall that I see is two games remaining and that we have a shot at winning both of them. Play Wisconsin tough, pissed off, like we did WMU and ND and we win. Pressure Pryor three times (to force three interceptions) and we win.
7-5. Write it down now.
IF not 7-5, who cares. There are greater travesties in life and the new AD will at least give RR one year (just to see if the "fit" is right with the ADs goals). I give RR two (but that is because I know how decimated the defense is going to be after graduation this year).
The only thing I am wondering from this weekend is this: if the whole stadium doesn't boo RR on that 4th and 2 from Purdue's 20 yard line, before Zoltan's out of this galaxy punt, does RR still go for it on 4th and 10 at our 25? I am wondering if he didn't try to appease the fans on that call...I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'
Kudos to him for having the brass to let it all hang out. High Risk High Reward.
You severely underrate Ohio State.
I may be severely underrating OSU, but, never will it be said that I let the results of 5 games change the skip in my step. I will be there on the 21st cheering the loudest that I possibly can to show my support for the team...
I'm not burrying Michigan if that's the vibe you took from my post. I'll be there cheering as well. But to say that it's as simple as pressuring Pryor (Which is difficult in itself), thats too simplified.
Call me crazy but I don't think RR got where he is today by appeasing the crowd.
Rod never had to worry about appeasing the crowd before - everthing he did was magic to the fine people of West Virginia.
I think his problem is that he cares far, far too much what the media and the fans think.
....I haven't seen anything on the field defensively, particularly in since we got out of September, that leads me to believe we can stop either Wisconsin, or Ohio State. At some point I think we need to have a realistic conversation. I do hope you're right. Just site me some actual proof or substance that would lead you to believe we have even a prayer against either of these teams.
Right now just fandom. I will try to get something other than fandom before next week's game.
I have nothing as far as evidence in stats because there is none but the fact of the matter is that no matter how bad our record may be I think we can win both games and I hope and pray that we do. I am a fan and no matter what may come our way I am going to watch the game and hope to the very last that we pull off the wins. Call it blind faith, call it what you will but I am a fan of the greatest football team ever and no stats are going to change that. Stats don't win a ball game, players do, and I happen to think that the ones in the winged helmets are the greatest of all time. Disagree with me and it is your loss.
i wasnt at the game yesterday...people booed? i think that might be the first boos of the season, right?
the only boos came when we didn't go for it on a 4th down. Cant recall exactly which drive it was but it was the only time when i heard it.
I also heard some boos when we decided to go for it on 4th down. Mostly I heard people say wtf, but there where some boos there too.
I know I'm probably wasting my time replying to a troll, but I think you might want to review what Mary Sue Coleman (the biggest shot of all) said about RR just a few days ago.
What else could she possibly say?
She could have said nothing at all. She's not going to put her reputation on the line now by going back on this. If you don't believe that, you don't know what kind of person she is.
And you might want to get your facts straight. Coleman's quote did not come out "just a few days ago." It was from an interview with the Wall Street Journal on Oct. 30--before the Illinois game.
Please. That was nine days ago - hardly eons ago. Nowhere in it did MSC say anything about the rest of the season affecting her judgment. If you don't like RR, fine. But claiming that MSC will go back on her word and let him go is flat-out delusional.
...you're likely right on several points (Rodriguez is in trouble and that there are definitely people out there sabotaging him from several fronts) I think the talk of his demise is slightly premature. Mary Sue Coleman will not get rid of him this year (she's come out publicly repeatedly and said he'll get at least four year). She wouldn't come out like that and not stand behind it barring the NCAA coming down HARD on us some time in the next few month (can't really hire a new coach after February can you?). I'm not saying whether its deserved or not, just that Mary Sue just won't do it and is her call since Martin is a lame duck. I think we'll RichRod will be coaching here in 2010. After that, I dunno.
"There are definitely people out there sabotaging him from several fronts"
Could you elaborate on that?
And about the grades, I thought the team turned in one of its better GPA performances in recent years. Gotta link to back that up?
Barring major NCAA findings, RR is definitely here in 2010.
First: Let me say, I love the website. I really do. I'm a Buckeye living in Michigan. As such, I watch Michigan every week. I wouldn't call myself a fan of Michigan, but I do respect the program, history, tradition, all that good stuff. I will treat the board and posters with respect, and would appreciate a level of the same. I know it's your board, and I am a guest on your turf.
Second: Richrod, if given a chance, will win a NC. He will. UM just needs to decide if they are willing to give him that chance. If you are not willing to push all the chips into the table and take your lumps possibly even next season, you should can him now. The ship is gaining speed and will be tough to stop. Two major changes to a program will lead to a FSU-like 10 years.
If you are willing take your lumps for a shot at a NC, deal with the next year or two, and support your damn team.
EDIT FOR GRAMMER
people are negging this post? i don't care if you agree or disagree, but negging for the fun of it is weak form imo.
"He won't be here next year if te team doesn't go to a bowl. It's not my call--I'd give him a third year before I'd can him. Trouble is, next year doesn't look terribly promising (unless we play Delaware State seven times)."
The key here is "next year doesn't look terribly promising."
Does a coach other than RR make it look more promising?
Remember, the people making the decision about RR will also be asking this question.
Whether you like RR or not, to think he will be gone next year is completely delusional.
The only thing that will jeopardize his job is major NCAA violations. He will be back next year. Even those who loathe RR need to come to terms with this. He's our coach, will be at least for the next year, and likely longer.
however, as to Coleman, the first sign of a coach in trouble at any level is a high ranking shot caller giving a vote of support. Once the chatter warrants a response, the issue has become legitimate. I am not just saying this and attempting to stir things up, but I really do believe that he is lame duck coach at this point. I don't think Rodruguez has shown the characteristics needed to make it work in this program. He is sloppy with the media, he does not seem to really embrace his players and often hangs them out to dry (at least by implication) in his pressers. Rich Rods acts like a coach who has never had to answer to anybody. He has to answer for his conduct and decisions here, he is being held to a high standard but acts as though the standard just doesn't apply to him. Why, I don't know. Not good. I think Michigan's AD's departure was curiously timed and I think the relatively little interest shown by many big named and previously interested recruits is really alarming, in some ways telling. This is one die hard Michigan fan that actually does believe that if he loses these remaining two games, he is out, like ASAP. Call me crazy, and I presume you will....
Its been known in University circles for a very long time that Bill Martin would step down after the football stadium was built. Nothing curious about that. Again, aside from MSC saying he'll get four years, they're not going to want a lame duck AD making this decision and leaving it on the new person(even if they pretty well know who the new A.D. will be, which I think they do). Plus, he still has three years on his contract and anyone they hire will likely have a buy out clause of several million in it.
Like I said earlier, barring the NCAA dropping a bomb on the program, RR will be back in 2010 BUT, he will be in boiling hot water under tremendous pressure to produce. FURTHER as the earlier poster noted, I just don't see how this team will get any better in 2010. We lose arguably our best offensive (Minor) and defensive players (Graham) and none of the recruits appear to be the kind of kid who can step in RIGHT AWAY and be a difference maker in the secondary or at linebacker which means we're essentially looking at a very similar defense and that isn't a good thing.
If this were a pro sports team, I'd agree that the lack of big "signings" (recruits) would be a sign that we might not improve. But this is college, and a lot of improvement is made just from having young players (of which we have a ton) maturing physically and mentally. The vast majority of our roster comes back next year, and we hopefully will sign enough recruits to raise our dangerously-low scholarship total (69) to something more reasonable. Let's see what happens when the guys RR actually recruited himself get another year under their belts.
The big difference next year is that our starting QB(s) will not be Freshman OR Walk-on's. The extra year of maturity, the extra year of watching film and practicing SHOULD be enough to cut down on our biggest issues on offense: turnovers and inconsistent play.
A better offense means our defense faces less plays which means they give up less points. This alone would have meant we win at Iowa, MSU and Purdue this year.
Assuming a 5-7 finish this year, I'll take an 8-4 season next year. All RRod really needs is 1 more year to get things in place.
Really, it will be ok in the long run.
I listened to what Saban had to say at halftime of the LSU/Alabama game. The first thing he did was call out his QB for not hitting open receivers. Then he said it wasn't the plays that were being called, it was the execution of those plays that was the reason they only scored 3 in the half. I can't believe he would hang his players out to dry like that. He should be canned because I don't like what he was implying about his players, which we all know should take no blame for anything. All the coach's fault and he should reiterate that every chance he gets.
All of these dumb posts following a loss make me miss the preseason days with Macfarlin and R_mahorn
... but, I have a hard time believing that our defense is that severely understaffed compared to some other teams that are playing comparable schedules and still making bowl games. Also, I don't think that anyone can say that our team is over-achieving relative to it's talent level. The big perk to Rodriguez was supposed to be that he could get the most out of our talent. Talent depleted or not, I challenge anyone to say that he has done that.
Being Michigan, we should be able to reel in the big-fish recruits. What we wanted, post-Lloyd, was someone that could get those big-fish recruits playing to, or past, their potential. While we're not a national-title caliber team, I do think that 5-5 with losses to Purdue and Illinois, is at best, achieving at the talent level of our team.
Maybe it is time to start looking past RRod. I'm not saying it's the greatest idea ... but there seem to be a couple of viable coaches out there that might be able to better-recruit and coach our team. Even if it's too early to say that the verdict is in on RRod, when do we say that perhaps we should cut our losses? Maybe he isn't the savior a lot of folks believe him to be, I think that Brian Kelly could step in and almost ensure that Michigan makes a bowl next year. Also, he may be a bit inflamatory, but Harbaugh has shown similar promise at STANFORD!?!?!
Haven't we had enough of:
(1) outsiders! If a switch is made, I want a Michigan Man in. Particulary since we can all name two very qualified candidates who fit that bill.
(2) Guys who have made their name dominating bullcrap leagues. Yes, I think the Big East is bullcrap. If we had to hire an outsider, I'd like to see someone who got it done in the SEC or Big 12 or even the Pac 10 over a guy who dominated the now impotent Big East.
Oh, please, can we go back to being 8-4 every year w/no chance at a national title unless God is playing corner, WR, and returning punts? And can we go back to losing 2-3 games every year to teams w/inferior talent? (And if you think we've lost to anyone w/inferior talent this year, I question your ability to judge talent.)
By the way, Yost, Crisler, and Schembechler were all outsiders. Crisler and Bo came from "bullcrap leagues." Tressel was an outsider from a bullcrap league when he took over at OSU. Urban Meyer came from Utah and BGSU before going to Florida. Mack Brown was in the ACC before Texas.
I don't want Kelly, either, but I don't agree with your reasoning.
This is an interesting trend - people defending Rodriguez by saying that all those 'accomplishments' you think Michigan earned under Lloyd were, under careful scrutiny, just mediocrity.
In 8 out of Lloyd's 13 seasons, Michigan had 9 or more wins at the end of November. Maybe the lesson to be learned with Rodriguez's hire is how fucking hard it is - yes, even at Michigan - to sustain that level of success.
I'd give my left nut for Rodriguez to win as much as Lloyd did.
EDIT: Also, 'Michigan only won a national championship in '97 because of Woodson so let's throw that out the window' is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. So a coach won a championship in part because he had a truly great player? Stop the motherfucking presses. Most teams only win championships because of masterful scheming and convincing 22 hardworking but unspectacular guys to all pull in the same direction, right? Pull up a list of all the national championship teams that didn't have great players, and I'll be convinced that Lloyd was a fraud.
Also, this is college football, right? Who was responsible for young Mr. Woodson's commitment to Michigan?
What the fanbase as a whole has done to Lloyd Carr in the past year, especially in the past 3 months, is sickening. Listening to some people, you'd think Lloyd drew up the transfer papers himself and escorted the guys out the door just to screw over RR.
Lloyd Carr is more of a Michigan Man than any of us who spend our time dissecting UFR's and being "All-In!" for this, that, or the other thing.
I think a lot of people are sick of revisionist history. Most Michigan fans couldn't wait to get rid of LC. I personally liked him, even if our offense was boring, we were out of the MNC race by the end of Sept. and he had problems with The Vest. I would have been fine with him staying as our coach for the next decade. I was terribly saddened by how 2007 worked out for him. But I can say with equal clarity that he obviously did not have his heart in recruiting over the last few years, and we are finally paying the price for that. The cupboard is bare. That is LC's doing. It's not trashing LC, who I believe is a great man and extremely underrated as a coach. Rather, it is a cold, hard reconciliation with reality. That is, a depth chart that is bereft of talent and bodies that could have been avoided. The thing that baffles me more than the so-called LC trashing is that the RR haters are the same morons who continuously called for LC's head b/c his offense was boring, he was conservative, blah blah blah, and now blame RR for ruining what LC built. You all wanted a coach that is best approximated by RR. If you are patient, you will get what you want. If you're not, then we are headed toward a swift ND-like decline into irrelevance. Don't bother bringing up Harbaugh or Kelly or any other flavor of the week. No one could do better with the bodies we have, and no would be able to save a team that is already understaffed with 70 scholarship players and that would be certain to suffer more attrition. Folks, we have to face the fact that we stink and we need to relax for awhile and give RR a chance. That doesn't mean not being critical. It means being rational about why we are where we are. And any logical evaluation of where we are includes an evaluation of LC's recruiting and the bare cupboard he left Michigan. I'm sure it wasn't his intent, but that's what happened. I still love the guy, but he could have done better.
Paragraph breaks are pretty great for putting together cohesive arguments. Just a thought.
It's funny you use that phrase.
I have no problem with the assertion that Lloyd's recruiting tapered off somewhat at the end of his career (although this could partially have been due to the fact that he could no longer promise recruits - like he did in Mike, Chad, and Jake's class - that he wouldn't retire before they were done at Michigan.)
But when people are so desperate to defend Rodriguez that they call Lloyd's entire record into question, including the national champsionship - that shit is juvenile, it isn't based on any realistic understanding of college football, and it sacrifices great moments in the program's history for the sake of rationalizing a mediocre present.
That's revisionist history.
"I have a hard time believing that our defense is that severely understaffed compared to some other teams that are playing comparable schedules and still making bowl games."
Casually, your idea sounds reasonable. I mean.. we're Michigan, our name brand is all about winning and all.
However, did you miss the work of Misopogon and others this past week?
(see Tim's post "Dear Diary: the Inaugural" on Friday's front page for the full details).
... OSU, PSU, and Alabama, yes, we lack talent. However, compared to MSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and a host of other teams that are short of Great but better than God-Awful, I'd say we have roughly equivalent talent.
I'm not saying we should have a top 10 defense this year. Just that we should be on par with teams that we have routinely out-recruited for decades.
Again did you see the diaries? It's not the lack of talent. It's the level of depth and just attrition in general. How you can call yourself an mgoblog guy and not read some of the great research that some people have put out there.
In sum get educated.
didnt you read boujes amazing diary? geez, get with it
You are an idiot. I was obviously referring to the Decimated Defense diaries.
I guess if it's in an mgoblog diary, it must be gospel!
Duhhhh, I'm a sheep named bouje.
I generally am a contrarian who takes the other side of arguments against the crowd. Before MGoBlog was even a big deal I was a staunch "Fire Lloyd Carr" person for years. I wrote letters to the editor to the Michigan Daily.
So to say that I'm a sheep (if you've read anything that I've written on here) is completely stupid and uninformed. I've gotten negged even more than you and I'm a sheep?
I'm not a sheep you're just a troll who likes attention.
So your ideal coach is one who has won at a lot of smaller places and turned a mid-level Big East program into a juggernaut. Hm...Kelly sounds a lot like Rodriguez.
Let's all step back a moment. Prior to this year, Rodriguez and Urban Meyer consulted with each other very frequently in regards to football. Given Rodriguez's past success, and Meyer's continued success at Florida, this tells me that the schemes are not at fault.
So maybe it's a development issue. But I don't buy it. Rodriguez made championship caliber teams out of nothing at WVU. But the key is that it takes time. Rodriguez didn't make 2* players into first round draft picks in a year. If you look at his WVU teams, most of his starters were juniors and seniors. This is to be expected, and due a terrible series of events, we basically have no depth and no experience. This isn't something you can fix in a week, or possibly even an entire season. It takes time.
My advice for you all: We all know this team isn't very good. Lower your expectations. Expect us to lose the next two games. Expect us to miss a bowl game. Expect us to be 5-7, and if this team pulls it together and actually wins one of the next two, then be happy. But don't expect to beat these next two teams, because they're good and we're not. And our problems can't be fixed in a week or two. If you can't handle losing, you shouldn't follow sports.
"Being Michigan, we should be able to reel in the big-fish recruits."
Occasionally yes but as a rule no. I grew up in Michigan in awe of UM and then got three degrees from there and totally drank the Kool-Aid. It was a reality check when I moved away and realized the rest of the country isn't quite as in awe of UM as we think they are. If you think we're recruiting on the same level as Florida, USC, LSU, Alabama and even tOSU, you're kidding yourself. We've been a second tier school for a while.
And Jim Harbaugh might be showing promise but he didn't get Stanford to a bowl in his first two years. UM nation is in meltdown mode because we might not get to a bowl again. If we brought in Harbaugh would we fire him after two years if we weren't in a bowl?
If you look at the rivals recruiting rankings of our classes since 2004 you'll see that we've averaged the 9th best class in the nation.
Regardless of whether or not you agree that averaging the 9th best classes on paper over a 6 year period justifies being labeled "top tier", you have to agree that we have underachieved based on the talent we've had. For comparison, Iowa has exactly the same # of wins as us since 2002 but they have averaged the 7th best classes in the Big Ten (we're first by the way).
Personally, I think that's an indictment of both Carr and RichRod and their inability to develop talent and avoid attrition.
...but I don't agree with one aspect of your post. We have recruited competitively with the teams you mentioned over the past 5 years.
I negged him for the exact same reason. We have had a better class than at least 1 team on his list the past 3 years and 5 out the last 6 years (according to rivals). To say that is not on the same level is a bit reckless.
Interesting thoughts. It does make me think, so thanks for the post.
First, I think the whole Freep story thing is overblown and overrated. People have short term memories and their outrage and umbrage fades over time. This time last year, ESPN was mercilessly piling on. Now? Not so much by comparison. Unless something concrete is actually found, meh, it's all hearsay.
Question, if we somehow manage to beat Wisconsin and/or OSU... what happens then? At say 6-6, we'd be bowl eligible is that good enough in your mind? Or do you actually think it's a done deal regardless? If the team wins one more when they aren't expected to do so, I think it changes the whole emotional equation. If the team somehow beats OSU, people will go bananas and be happy.
Face it, much of this fire RR meme is based on emotional vitriol related to on field performance. Winning tends to abate the teeth gnashing and hollerin'. I don't think the masses will feel the same about firing RR if we somehow beat OSU.
As for Mary Sue.... what else could she say? Nothing. She could have stayed out of it. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that she is not actually behind RR.
i don't have a problem when this guy posts, he clearly follows the team and although hes making incendiary statements just to watch the aftereffects, the calls for banning are a little overblown.
but can we at least stop him from starting new threads, it just clogs up the board.
I start about one thread per month. And for anyone to yap about this board being clogged up with threads is redunkulous (except me--that's my job).
..you're saying that your general function on this blog (outside of going after Rodriguez) is both ridiculous and unnecessary...but it's OK if you are ridiculous and unnecessary...
At least you're open about your hypocrisy, although it seems to be born out of an inflated ego more than anything else.
but clearly he's hit a hot button subject that's opened up a variety of opinions so the post, separate from his past work, served its purpose. How can you realistically say that this kind of discussion is inappropriate on a board like this regardless of which side of the spectrum you fall on.
Belch has little control over people starting threads about him. I wish they would ban those threads. /sigh
FWIW, he doesn't start many of his own.
You can't f'ing miss it on defense. But the thing gnawing at me is what else is missing. Is it morale? Is it horrible position coaching? Or worse? I've been a very vocal and vehement Rodriguez supporter since the story broke he was interviewing in Toledo.
But what the fuck? The doubt is creeping in. How the fuck did we lose to Toledo last year (as embarrassing frankly as The Horror), how the hell did we not win N'Western '08, and every game save PSU this year? At some point the finger has to be pointed at the head guy.
I read everything here, and not one opinion, no matter how rational and well-formed, has convinced me that it's not time to point the finger.
I don't see progress, I don't see momentum. I see the same goddamned mistakes every week. At this point the season is toast, with no chance of beating Wisky or OSU (how I'd love to be proven wrong), and have very little confidence of turning the corner in the next 9-10 months. My fear is he's in too deep.
Please prove me wrong Rich.
how the hell did we not win N'Western '08, and every game save PSU this year?
I see the talent deficit. You can't f'ing miss it on defense.
You just answered your own question.
Expecting us to win "every game save PSU" the year after we go 3-9 is wishful thinking, to say the least. That said, we've still shown improvement, and the fact that the team is putting up a fight now and that there have been so many close losses gives me hope for what we'll see once our defense is not so awful.
At this point the season is toast, with no chance of beating Wisky or OSU (how I'd love to be proven wrong)
Wait until next week. Wisconsin isn't as good as their record or ranking.
Wait until next week. Wisconsin isn't as good as their record or ranking.
Neither are we. Our record is based on A) beating poor teams B) teams having no film on Tate.
Re: Wisconsin: Something unexpected like winning the turnover margin could happen. But most confidence in Michigan these days is OVERconfidence.
Do you honestly think we should be 9-1 right now? With a true freshman QB, a porous OL and a paper-thin, talent-deprived defense?
No. Time for me to shut up. Frustration's getting the better part of me.
First, I wouldn't be too despondent about the last two games; we should have a chance in both; I like our underdog odds against a heavy run offense next weekend, especially if we can get the offense (with Minor this time) clicking.
To the point, people really seem to be digging in their heels regarding their opinions on how much RR is to blame. It's clearly not an all-or-none question, but RR certainly hasn't done what you'd call a "good job" since coming in and we certainly have had less talent than we're accustomed to the past two years. So, just by virtue of there being multiple precipitants, the discussion is a fair one to have, and people shouldn't try to silence the RR doubters with personal attacks and all caps.
Further, the RR apologists seem to be offering two parallel arguments: (1) RR isn't to blame and is doing all he can do; and (2) firing RR now will only leave our program in greater disarray. The second argument should not be used to defend RR's capacity as a coach at M. This is like arguing that invading Iraq was initially a good decision because if we pull out now the country will fall apart. The first point can certainly be argued. The second is part of a different argument.
It's a fun and interesting conversation. Embrace the diversity of opinions.
First, labeling anyone who wishes to see our coach remain at his job an "apologist" is obnoxious. Am I an apologist if I think he deserves more time, even if I don't agree with every single thing he's done? Secondly, I have no idea what you're arguing here:
firing RR now will only leave our program in greater disarray. The second argument should not be used to defend RR's capacity as a coach at M.
Why not? It's a very likely that firing RR will cause us to have a worse 2010 season (and probably also 2011) than we would if he were retained, given the inevitable attrition and recruiting losses that accompany a firing. How do you not find that a compelling argument?
And I have no idea where you're going with the Iraq analogy. I don't think anyone is arguing that the potential negative repercussions of firing RR now proves that his initial hiring was justified. Debating the latter point is useless anyway. RR is here. We should debate where to go from here, not beat ourselves up over what might have been in 2007.
Given that RR is our coach, and that the program has moved in a new direction, philosophy-wise, over the past two years, I think we'd be best off allowing him to continue with the job rather than start over now.
First, I'm not using apologist derisively. It's a pretty benign word:
: one who speaks or writes in defense of someone or something
Secondly, you're making my point. There are two different arguments: (1) practically speaking, would firing RR now make the program worse off? and (2) is RR a good coach for Michigan? You can answer no to (2) and still answer yes to (1). Saying "I think we'd be best off allowing him to continue with the job rather than start over now" doesn't answer the question of whether or not he's a good coach for M. Personally, I think struggling with question (2) is an important first step to thinking about the best way to move forward.
A voice of reason.
Is that fans can NOT stop acting and thinking like fans.
I've stepped outside that box many times, and that's what infuriates the dolts who can't do it (about 96% of them). I mean, reall, I may not come on here and gratuitously mention my "three degrees from Michigan", or lie like a motherfucker about having degrees from UM, but I have NO DOG in this hunt. If UM succeeds, fine by me. If they don't, well, what does it really matter?
When you step outside the confines of Fanthought and Groupthink (New terms I've just intranet-vented), you are more clear-headed, and you see how things really work.
I honestly believe if The Mighty Godriguez whups up another bucket of fail and doesn't make a bowl game, he GONE. I've also said it's not the call I'd make. BUT--I don't have to really worry about the embarrassment that is the product he is giving the world right now.
"Godriguez" or "Dick Rod"
Maybe if you actually didn't have an axe to grind with him and were impartial maybe I'd believe you. But I honestly think that you've bought into the Freep bs.
And to call this Michigan team an embarrassment is a slap in the face to every Michigan player and coach and is a very dick move. But I'd expect nothing less from you.
Slappie - there actually was progress this week even though it ended in a loss. We lost the game for two reasons - a missed extra point and a superb, well executed on-sides kick. We saw the emergence of several players. I was at the game and saw some good things. JB Fitzgerald had several excellent form tackles and was in on many more of those that he did not make himself. Roy Roundtree has GREAT hands, and runs at defenders inspired. The offensive line held and allowed Tate time - for the first time this year.
This team has less experience than most that we are facing, and very little depth among the most skilled. Every game provides more experience.
Teams who have disadvantages can still win in big games. If this were not the case, the Oregon States, Appy States, and Naval Academies would just ask for payment and not bother playing the games at all.
We may not win this week or next, but then again, we might.
Coaches always - and I mean always - deserve 5 years. (unless you get drunk at the Excalibur in Southfield while hitting on a bunch of Puma's)
I totally agree with KOB,no doubt RR should have kept Henne and Hart 3 or 4 more years and a couple of those big lineman.
RR should be fired for not giving out more speed to our safties
and sprinkle a little on our corners while he's at it. RR should of held onto those NFL bound wideouts a few more years,he should be fired for that.RR should be fired because our players aren't older,stronger,faster or smarter... Hell RR should be fired for being RR.
He will get a 3rd year irregardless...
As he should, who are we going to bring in to coach this team and be successful next year if he leaves? Brian Kelly maybe but I seriously doubt thats going to happen.
Did you watch their game w/UConn last night?
Thats why I said I seriously doubt its going to happen
John Gruden could probably bring in some super awesome NFL minds and get this turned around. Bill Sheridan anybody? At least a staff filled with super bowl rings will really bring in the recruits.
GERG has TWO Super Bowl rings and a BCS championship ring.
Didn't make that post as blatantly sarcastic as I should have. My apologies.
You ought to throw that in as an edit to the other post. There's been so much real dumbassery around here on that topic it's getting hard to see the sarcasm.
good point I thought that comment might not blow over well.
Exhibit A on why "NFL minds" are over-rated in the college game:
Simply put, the NFL game does not always translate to the college game, and vice versa. Playing in the NFL is a full-time job. There are no exams, study halls, practice limits, etc. Excepting limits established by collective bargaining (if any) there are no brakes on the amount of time a NFL player devotes to the game.
Likewise, NFL players - on average - are bigger, stronger and faster than college players. NFL defenses are much better at disguising coverages than in college, and their players can close the distance between themselves and the ball carrier rapidly. Thus, it is very hard to get the sort of mismatches that a scheme like the spread thrives upon.
Assuming that Jon Gruden could enjoy success as a collegiate head coach is just wishful thinking.
KOB: since there's almost no externally generated accountability for saying inflammatory and patently absurd things on the internets, if UM doesn't go to a bowl but Rodriguez comes back, what will you do to yourself to account for this inflammatory and patently absurd post?
That's the first sensible thing you've said in months. I can't quit you, KoB...
two more years for RR as stated by MSC (and as has been pointed out many times in these posts). Not only does it make sense from a contractual (money) standpoint, but also because of RR's track record. You can't discard a man with that track that quickly. In fact, if his not given at least two more years, the damage to the program could well have an even longer ligering effect. Finally, bringing in another head coach will not solve the shortage of personnel problems on defense. Even if RR were to go, that problem will still be there. The best thing we can do is to continue to support him until he has had enough time to get all the pieces in place.
You should stop smoking it. Barring major NCAA violations there is zero repeat ZERO chance Rich Rod gets fired after this year. UM is darn near Lion like in its devotion to coaches not getting the job done...while I still personally have hope, I dont think that really matters, even if he @$#%s the bed he is going to get at least one more year.
see Ellerbe, Brian (4 years) and Amaker, Tommy (6 years)
-Not to mention the AD that hired him and will have much of his legacy based on his performance will still be here until late next year.
Because there is a tradition of success and patience. Yanking the rug out from under RR would only make it more difficult to replace him with a top coach, and probably lengthen the transition.
RR will get four seasons, minimum, to transform this team.
for the original thought.
You managed to provide us Scout level grammatical skills, only without the sunny outlook. That is about the worst combination you could achieve if you're writing about Michigan football.
Unless your posts have some therapeutic value that is critical to you not committing an act of violence against yourself or others, I suggest you take some deep breaths, wait until the offseason, take a few more deep breaths--and then share more of your sparkling insights.
No loss could possibly be as embarrassing as firing our coach after two years. None.
King of Belch.....good thing you are not in control of the football program or we'd really be screwed. Looking at this season, given we start so many freshman and sophomores, and our defense is young and extremely thin (and generally lacks talent beyong Graham, Warren, Martin and Roh), I think 5-5 is right where we ought to be. Problem is everyone expects RR to do so much with so little.....and everyone wants everything now. I'd rather take two steps back, albeit painful, and come out better in the end. RR deserves the time to build his program, and going from an obsolete, stale style of football to what he wants to do will take time. Anyone who wants a winner in year 2 should hold on....next year will be the year we make strides. Those calling for RR to be fired just don't get it.
Is there any example of situation where a coach managed to start his career out like this at a school at Michigan and really start to pick things up in the third season and on. The only examples I can think of are few coaches who were in situations like Schiano and you cannot really compare Rutgers to Michigan.
One may say that there was such a drastic transition in system but I give you the example of Georgia Tech and Nebraska. Georgia Tech went from pro-style to option and managed to just fine. Nebraska went from option to pro-style and even a coach as poorly regarded as Callahan managed to win 8 games in his second year. When Mike Leach brought the spread to Texas Tech he managed to do so without having any kind of drop off.
For people who think that Rich Rodriguez will eventually be successful at Michigan is there an example of coach who you can point to who was similarly situated to RichRod and eventually managed to have success. For my own part I can't seem to find any examples of any coach taking over a good program having two initial poor seasons and really getting it done from that point on.
Kirk Ferentz started out 1-10 and 3-9 at Iowa, and (IIRC) hasn't had a losing season since. If you can overcome two awful years at a program like that, with no recruiting base, you can do it here.
And they were 3-8 the year before. There's a reason they ran out Hayden Fry.
I know this has to sound strange coming from a Michigan loyalist/fanatic like me, but give Rich and the football team time. We were in a nice, warm cocoon for 40 years, and now we decided to leave it and go in a new direction; it takes time and patience to rebuild something. Now, in 2011, if we're not the shiny, proverbial butterfly and contending for Big Ten and National Titles, you can call my bluff.
Well said. If the 2011 isn't about a Big 10 Championship and/or BCS bid then I'll happily dust off my pitchfork and light my torch. But to call for RR's head now is the height of stupidity.
of my section. There weren't any boos, just a incredulous sigh of OMG what are you thinking.
The questioning of the coach is normal when there has been such a negative slide, especially after a 4-0 start. The only solution to the problems that exist is winning. It is not going to be easy, but there is a chance. It will be a tough week for those fielding calls on the radio this week.
I don't envy Brian tomorrow on WTKA.
I'm sure the same callers, JJ, Jason and Phil will call and bitch about how Woody Hayes had all the answers, Bo never lost this many games in 21 years blah, blah, blah.
Saturday cannot get here soon enough.
Keep the faith. Stay thirsty my friends! and above all else...
WTKA is going to by tinfoil central tomorrow afternoon, for sure.
It doesn't matter what people post on boards or what is written in papers. It only matters what the AD and President think. As long as they are on board who cares. If they give RR time and he wins then he stays because these morons will go away. If they give him time and he loses he will be gone anyway.
Irregardless is NOT a word, despite the fact that our coach uses it all the time.
MSC is not an idiot and a coaching switch would doom this program to Nebraska or worse in a heart beat.
I know this is all idle chatter, but it SUCKS.
I love that word but was scolded and lectured on this here blog for using it. IMHO RR might have picked it up from me.
since i can't post a forum topic and I've been wondering about this for a while and since there seems to be a lot of activity on this thread, do you guys feel like you are being screwed over these last 2 years with the price of your football tickets, especially with the economy the way it is? My gf tell me all the time that you guys have a shitty deal having to pay so much for football tickets when Florida's student ticket price is $10 even after the 2 nat'l championships. Don't get me wrong, the team needs fans in the seats cheering for them, I just wondered if anybody was feeling a little pissed about this?
does your gf feel like she's getting screwed? Ah, forget it, you don't have to answer that, its none of our business.
your girlfriend was last night. ask her how much i owe her
your post lost all credibility when you said he'll be gone after this yr. he'll absolutely get four years at which time he'll get to the necessary 8-4 season or better. he's not doing a good job and neither are the players. i spent months before the season eagerly awaiting kickoff for the first game. now, nov 22nd can't come soon enough.
Quite frankly, the Buckeyes are very beatable. They aren't all that good. Don't get me wrong, they're better than us. But, it will be the 40th anniversary of Bo's big upset on them. Look for it again. I promise you. Our offense looks sharp, but our defense is atrocious. Luckily for us Terrelle Pryor can't throw all that well. Just pressure him, and Brandon Graham is pretty good at pressuring quarterbacks.
Ohio State 21
Write in the books.
Let me get this straight. You think that we have a chance because 40 years ago we upset the Buckeyes when we were a huge underdog? OMG
competition we are averaging under 5 more points a game than we did last year. Turnover are still a big issue so I don't see how we have improved all that much.
A five point improvement is huge. It doesn't sound like it, but even if you're only going against BCS competition like you said that's probably a jump of 30-40 spots on the Scoring Offense charts.
fixing the offense was last off-seasons main priority; and it worked! Fixing the defense is next years main priority, and it will work, but it might take more than one year.
I think firing Rodriguez after this season or even next would be panicking too early, and would negatively impact the hiring process of his successor. What coach worth his salt is going to want to come to a program that might fire him before he's coached through a full cycle of recruits?
The game has simply changed since the days of U-M dominance. Recruiting is more competitive, potential NFL salaries make players more selective in terms of where they go, and football at all levels has gotten more sophisticated. U-M now has "do football" differently (to an extent) than it did in the 1970s and 80s.
"has *to* 'do football'...." Fingers going faster than the brain, there.
A lot of people have the basic assumption that Rich Rodriguez is a good coach and this means that if given time then he will be successful at Michigan. I am not saying this assumption is wrong but it is time to seriously start questioning. I don't fully believe this yet, but I am starting to think that Rich Rodriguez is a coach who happened to be very lucky in getting two players the caliber of Pat White and Steve Slaton at the same time that Miami and Virginia Tech left the Big East.
You have been on the board since 2008, and you have 11 points to your name.
And after waiting all this time, you post this comment.
Your comment is that Coach Rod is not actually very good, but that the entire college (and high school) football world have been duped due to circumstances in the 3 years prior to his arrival in A2.
I am not ready to give him Carte Blanche, but you are playing into the hands of those who believe the end of the world is upon us.
You are right that I have not really posted until very recently. I guess I never really saw the need to. The reason that I made that statement is that the supporters of Rich Rodriguez are placing their faith in the success that he had at West Virginia. And given the results of the last two season I don't really think it is so crazy to question that assumption. Pat White and Steve Slaton were amazing college football players that managed to come along right when Miami and Virginia Tech decided that they were going to go to the ACC. I don't think that the world is going to end or anything like that, but I do think that we should examine Rich Rodriguez's time at West Virginia and decide how much of it (if any) was the result of getting lucky.
I guess he did get pretty lucky when he won more Big East championships than Virginia Tech and Boston College combined when all 3 were in the conference together and he was coaching West Virginia. That was before Pat White also. How lucky.
in the same time than Michigan. Of course we just had a #1 overall draft pick, a now starting QB in the NFL, one of the best running backs to ever where a winged helmet, 2 NFL WRs...
Nah clearly RR sucks, the Big Ten is not the Big East and he will never succeed here because the Big Ten is a power conference! His "pussy" brand of football has no place in Big Ten POWER FOOTBALL COUNTRY!!!!
(last paragraph drips of something... but for the life of me I cannot tell what it is)
Rich Rodriguez was in the Big East conference for 4 years prior to Pat White/Slaton. For the first three of those years, Miami and Virginia Tech were in the conference. Boston College was there for all four of those years. In year one and two, Miami won the conference title. In his third year he split the conference title with Miami (and lost to them head to head). In year four there was a four way tie for the conference title between Pitt (who went on to get beat pretty bad by Utah in the fiesta bowl), BC, Syracuse, and West Virginia.
So you are saying that every team in the Big East got lucky while Rodriguez coached there? Or are you saying that, without Pat White, RichRod and WV were the second best team in the Big East behind a team that won the national title and lost the title game in consecutive years? Yes, RichRod is very lucky that those other teams left - if they didn't, he would have had to settle for more conference titles and playing competitive football against an established, national championship caliber team while he rebuilt West Virginia. Lucky him.