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I mean, the team is already…

I mean, the team is already last in the Big Ten and got blown out by a Rutgers that finished 13th. It's hard to imagine it getting worse from here.

Also...I know the article is…

Also...I know the article is paywalled, but the "it was just two people yelling" crowd really needs to shut up.

Sanderson became involved in that dispute, and he and Juwan Howard exchanged words. According to a combination of witnesses and individuals briefed on the matter, no punches were thrown, but things became heated to the point where the two were separated.

If it got to the point where people thought they needed to intervene and separate them? Yeah, Howard is gone.

Months?

People still give…

Months?

People still give Astros fans shit and their roster has almost entirely turned over since they cheated. This is going to be the first thing people think of when they think of Michigan for the next decade, easily. It's going to suck.

Yes, he DOES deserve vitriol…

Yes, he DOES deserve vitriol. "The cover-up is worse than the crime" is a cliche for a reason. The fact he both destroyed evidence and told players to lie to investigators means that Michigan is probably going to be punished significantly more harshly now, because we've already seen in the past with other scandals that's the single most surefire way to infuriate the NCAA.

The more we learn about CTE,…

The more we learn about CTE, the more it becomes clear that if contact sports survive, they're going to have to look very different in the future.

You aren't wrong about the…

You aren't wrong about the NCAA and the 90 day window, but:

The Big Ten settlement was contingent on none of the countable coaches being involved, per Nicole Auerbach yesterday. The Partridge news could change that if the Big Ten wasn't aware of it.

While the CFP committee so far has stayed on the sidelines, it's not impossible they change their minds as more information comes out and skip selecting Michigan.

And Michigan could just say screw it, bite the bullet, and institute their own ban to try and ward off more severe punishment down the road.

Especially after today, I'm not counting on being able to play out the season.

I mean, IMMEDIATELY off the…

I mean, IMMEDIATELY off the top of my head Tressel resigned a good six months before the NCAA announced their punishment. A department chair resigned during the North Carolina scandal in 2011 six years before the NCAA investigation concluded. And both of those "resignations" were the "would have otherwise been fired" kinds. And since a booster was the guilty party in the 2011 Miami scandal there wasn't anyone *to* fire.

 

You're not making the point you think you are.

Yeah, the idea that all of…

Yeah, the idea that all of this is true and Michigan is just sitting on it twiddling their thumbs when it would have at a minimum distracted everyone from our own investigations is...not remotely plausible. Especially the bit about the program informing the NCAA because that would absolutely have left a paper trail. So either it's not true, or if it is true they can't actually prove any of it which means it's worthless.

Yep. This honestly is making…

Yep. This honestly is making me question exactly how Michigan handled all of this internally.  They should have known about this, especially since we already know Stalions basically didn't cover his tracks at ALL. And either alternative - that Michigan did know and didn't do anything, or that they didn't know because of some mixture of incompetence, willful ignorance, or something else - is very bad for the program.

It has, literally, never…

It has, literally, never worked that way. OSU fired Tressel and they still got a postseason ban and probation. Michigan could fire the entire coaching staff this afternoon and the NCAA would still punish the program once the investigation concludes. There's a reason we have the phrase "lack of institutional control".

Yeah, the new information…

Yeah, the new information that's coming out now is extremely bad and no amount of sticking heads in the sand or whataboutism changes that. Remember, when Jim Tressel got fired it wasn't because of the stupid gold pants - it was because he lied and tried to cover it up after he was initially informed and during the subsequent investigation.

Anyone on the "it's not that…

Anyone on the "it's not that bad" train still is, trying to be charitable, willfully ignorant after what came out yesterday.

We've got detailed itineraries and budgets in a place multiple staffers including coaches had access to. We've got reports of people directly connected to the program doing the scouting, including supposedly Stalions at the MSU/CMU game *this year*. And for all the focus on NCAA rules, the Big Ten could swoop in and discipline the program right away - and if it turns out the currently ongoing season was affected like it appears to be...

I try to be pragmatic, and I'm not seeing a way Michigan escapes severe, program altering punishment at this point.

I think I hate the concept…

I think I hate the concept of football now.

Update: per Rob Stone on Fox…

Update: per Rob Stone on Fox's halftime, he did have a seizure.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1578807458260484099

Twitter speculation is he…

Twitter speculation is he had a seizure, which would make sense with how he was strapped down to the stretcher. But I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere.

No, he doesn't survive it,…

No, he doesn't survive it, and now that we have more video and audio I'm actually even more confident of that.

You can rationalize it away all you want (and dear lord, some of you are trying) but: nothing in that sequence of events justified physical violence. Howard was the one who escalated it past the point of no return with the punch, which was not a proportional response to someone grabbing his arm. He wasn't apologetic, and blaming Wisconsin without taking even a little personal responsibility played disastrously nationally. His actions and the fact he and potentially multiple players will be suspended probably took Michigan from bubble team to firmly out of the tournament. This is now, unfortunately, a pattern of behavior with Howard. And the fact this did happen on national TV matters because as long as Howard is with the team, this will be the moment a lot of people associate with the team.

And look, I've seen people try to handwave away every individual point in my list - but when you put all of that together, I don't think the university has a choice here. Even if Howard is reprimanded severely with, say, a suspension for the rest of the year and anger management training this isn't going away as long as he's here. This already has affected the team and university's image nationally, and while that can be undone it'll require quick, decisive action. Maybe Mary Sue Coleman steps in to play the big bad and save Warde from taking blame, but I don't see Howard remaining employed here.

(Also, I'll be upfront here - I'm probably ignoring any replies to this because this is my opinion and no amount of relitigating it is likely to change my mind when the avalanche of posts in the past day hasn't.)

Except you left out what he…

Except you left out what he started with.

“I am aware of and watched the end of our men’s basketball game,” Manuel said in the statement. “There is no excuse for any of our staff or student-athletes to get into a physical altercation with others regardless of instigating factors.”

This is the kind of statement you release when things could still go either way.

This is going to fall on…

This is going to fall on deaf ears, because based on your other comments you're either in full fan brain mode, trolling or worse.  Paraphrasing, "we should give him a chance to explain himself but also he whiffed so it's no big deal anyway" is not a coherent or defensible stance.

But this isn't a difficult one.  NOTHING in that sequence of events justified physical violence, full stop.  There is no rationalization or explanation that makes that okay.  At a minimum this is a (probably rest of the season) suspension, and if Howard is fired I won't be upset.  He did this to himself.

Nobody cares... Except for

Nobody cares... Except for the people you're replying to, anyone who's driving during a game, the people who bring radios and use them tailgating or in the stands...

Oh, wait, maybe it's just you.

"Blew out of proportion" my

"Blew out of proportion" my ass. The guy's got a history of racist, sexist and homophobic comments going back years, the kind of statements where any one of those comments would have gotten you, me or anyone else fired instantly. Whether or not you personally were offended it shouldn't be that hard to see why a lot of people were upset when he, say, invokes Hitler when he's talking about Germans.

I'm amazed at how many people online are passionately defending him today. The man is a bully and a jerk, and being entertaining on TV doesn't and shouldn't give him free reign. He's also an idiot, given that the BBC has publicly told him he'd be fired if he had one more incident after the last time around. He tested that, and here we are now.

Mostly, I'm impressed that the BBC had the guts to do this even though it means likely killing one of their most popular shows.

Given the ONLY thing Bell's

Given the ONLY thing Bell's says they're asking is that they can't trademark the phrase (which would necessitate changing all those "bumper stickers and delivery trucks") I'm really not seeing the issue. Seems plenty reasonable on the surface...

jusy because someone here

jusy because someone here disagrees with the law, it doesnt mean they "explained" something.

Sweet irony...

What, pray tell, makes your interpretation somehow more valid or correct than the prosecutors filing the charges? Because given the choice between believing the official investigators or a guy on a message board with a clear agenda...

The same material as

The same material as yesterday, even after it was explained to you yesterday the bankrupt part is completely irrelevant?

We need a better class of trolls here. Or at least ones who can manage better than a broken record spiel.

Dude, I know blatant lies in

Dude, I know blatant lies in these threads are your thing, but what orifice did you pull "defunct business" out of?

EDIT: I thought we were still talking about the ski resorts which ate most definitely not "defunct". Are you talking about another incident?

Sorry, but no. You pretty

Sorry, but no. You pretty much have to be looking for some conspiracy or to assign Bacon malicious intent to think that's true. Journalists typically don't make a habit of completely misrepresenting their sources like that, especially when they name them and it'd be easy to verify.

WD aside, Brandon has a history of being a snarky ass in other old, time-stamped posts people here dug up.

You're right! After all, John

You're right! After all, John U. Bacon has a long history of risking his reputation and career by fabricating the quotes and anecdotes in his articles about Michigan.

...no, wait, scratch that. He doesn't and you're an idiot.

And that is relevant

And that is relevant because...?

I mean, if Bacon was Rodriguez's boss you might have more than a false equivalency.

...and I think everyone

...and I think everyone making comments like this is delusional. What POSSIBLE evidence has this team given us to think that they can compete with, let alone beat, an MSU that's not only Top 10, but much more emotionally invested in the game as they always are?

"Rivalry game" and "anyone can win" are tropes that sound great but when that's literally the only way you can claim optimism...

Wait - so you post a bunch of

Wait - so you post a bunch of reasonable explanations, then completely contradict yourself and say you still think it's fake based on seemingly nothing? Really?

Who knows? All I know is that

Who knows? All I know is that the language is awfully ambiguous. If the email didn't exist I'd have come right out and said that if I was responding.

I know - but Morris was not

I know - but Morris was not only dressed but taking warmups last weekend at Rutgers without any kind of visible brace or impairment. That doesn't necessarily mean he was game ready, but it's hard to imagine his ankle was worse than Gardner was last night.

Funny... I distinctly

Funny... I distinctly remember Morris wanting to be out there too, and everyone saying that the coaches should have overruled him.

WHY THE FUCK IS GARDNER BACK

WHY THE FUCK IS GARDNER BACK IN????

Sure. IF he's on his home

Sure. IF he's on his home connection instead of somewhere else. Or IF he has a cable subscription.

I feel like 110,000 is overly

I feel like 110,000 is overly optimistic given the past few weeks. I know, the supposed marquee game, but I don't see the stadium as full tonight.

Since when is "not a real

Since when is "not a real fan" NOT questioning somebody's fandom?

If you start with the premise

If you start with the premise that DB don't care about empty seats, I could see the merits in your view.

Problem is, that view falls apart once you remember the increasingly desperate emails, Groupon, the Coke promo...

The athletic department is desperate to fill seats and maintain the streak.

Oh look! It's someone else

Oh look! It's someone else telling me I'm not a real fan because I have legitimate issues with the program and its leadership! I guess the fact I care about this team enough to have those opinions is meaningless...

You can't just separate it

You can't just separate it like that. At this point it's all so intertwined there's no way to. And the Diag protest did get coverage outside of Michigan circles so I'd argue your first point is wrong. That said...

Isn't that enough? The Morris situation was botched horribly and THAT got a lot of national play. So did the team's dreadful play this year, and their huge regression under Hoke. Anyone should be able to look at those ALONE and understand why so many fans are upset. Even if the recruits have no idea who Brandon is the performance on the field alone tells a story that explains the anger.

Athletes draw motivation from

Athletes draw motivation from the crowd. Michigan Stadium's size is a huge recruiting tool because an athlete brain understands intuitively that 109,000 shouting faces will get more out of him than 84,000.

That's great... Except we've all seen these teams lay a colossal egg in front of full, energetic stadiums before. I'm not going to deny that home field advantage is a real thing, but it's an extra push over the edge. We're so far from that edge I can't blame anyone who chooses to boycott or not go at all.

If recruits aren't aware of

If recruits aren't aware of the "dynamics of the situation" when it's been a lead story on practically EVERY national news source, sports or otherwise, then do we really want them here? If they're THAT ignorant about the school they may be committing to?

"Michigan Football

"Michigan Football (pressers/articles/quotes/strategies/solutions/general football talk)"

You DO realize that no one nationally is talking about or cares about the team on the field any more, rght?  We're a 2-4 team that is a contender to go 2-10.  What is there to discuss there that hasn't already been said?

Bad Idea

Reddit does this to "clean up" their NFL subreddit.  You know what the end result is?

News gets hidden when it gets stuffed into a thread that's difficult or impossible to sort or search.  Let's say something incredible happens with Brandon - there's no way you're going to know it's in post 673 of the sticky unless you manually check it repeatedly.  All a collected thread does is sweep things under the rug.

This argument is, to be

This argument is, to be blunt, complete garbage.  This site doesn't represent "all students, alumni, and fans", never has, and never will.  It's a private blog run by ONE GUY - what Brian says goes.

And I don't know if you've noticed from the home page, but Brian is in favor of both (a) a coaching change and (b) a potential protest at a home game.

This is the happiest I've

This is the happiest I've ever seen the fanbase after losing to OSU.

 

It's a nice feeling.

With an injured Gardner and

With an injured Gardner and Wile in for Gibbons?  I think it was the right call.  And based on this thread and my Facebook feed, that seems to be the majority opinion.

 

Shame it didn't work, but it was a hell of a game.  This is the best I've felt after a Michigan loss in a long, long time.

Which browser are you

Which browser are you using?

 

At least in Firefox, it's as simple as right click -> "This Frame" -> "Open Frame in New Tab/Window" (depending on your preference).

You're probably right.
But on

You're probably right.

But on the other hand, we'd probably have lost by even more because old-school Michigan never went for quarterbacks that could run like Denard and Devin can.

Most of my time at Michigan was with Carr as a head coach, and the one thing I hated more than anything in those games was when the play calling was:

10 RUN BALL UP MIDDLE

20 GOTO 10

...no matter what.  The single biggest disappointment about today's game, for me, is that we returned to exactly that for the second half of the game.

Smith didn't make 2.5 yards per carry.  Rawls didn't even make half a yard on average.  At some point, when things aren't working, you need to try something else.

When RichRod was fired,

When RichRod was fired, people wanted a return to the Michigan of old.

Looks to me like that's exactly what we got.

Did you stop to consider that

Did you stop to consider that "our offense is going downhill" because our starting quarterback can't throw the ball and our starting running back has a broken leg?  Those MIGHT have played a factor.  Doesn't excuse the play calling in the second half, but it's not like a different offensive coordinator could have kept those injuries from happening.