Why do people listen to Sarah Hughes? She always posts something really vague after the information is already out on the web from other sources.
Someone to commit at BBQ according to Dawson (ish)
honestly, she is what's bad about twitter IMHO. i remember one time a few months back she out-of-the-blue sent a tweet to Ty Isaac saying something like "Who wouldn't want to run behind Michigan's o-line. I know I would :)" and copying a few other recruits. As if it is her job to play amateur psychologist and try to get recruits to choose UM. way out of bounds. and tremendous, as much as like his stuff, tweeting "good luck" to uncommitted recruits he barely knows as they head off to camps. just a really bad trend, adults thinking they are friends with 17-year old kids over twitter.
isn't that a bit risky on her part? Tremendous, while I do think the whole twitter friendships are creepy, does appear to avoid influencing decisions.
You clearly have no clue how much more difficult it is to maintain contacts for a non-national site.
These kind of comments are annoying to be honest. Say what you would about others, but we've had to take a conciously different approach to how we obtain and maintain our contacts because of how difficult it is to maintain that relationship. If you're not one of the nationally known pay-sites, you have to work twice as hard to get (and continue to get) the information because more often than not, the kids aren't going to come to you. We're at their mercy in every way. It sucks, but it's something that was learned quickly.
Wishing a kid good luck is in no way, shape or form trying to be friends with them; it's keeping us in their heads so they are more likely to come to us with information so that you, somebody who is clearly interested in recruiting, will get the information you desire without having to pay $120/yr to get it.
I understand the angle you're taking, but it's just incorrect...at least from our standpoint.
You're assuming that what you guys do is a good thing. If I had a son who was an elite recruit, I wouldn't be happy about hundreds of sites like yours chatting up my 15-year-old son, trying whatever it takes to get an interview and scoop out of him. That's especially true given that many of these sites are operated by people who (1) have little/no training in responsible journalism and (2) have essentially no incentives to show restraint (e.g., it's not like you're protecting the reputation of a major newspaper).
There's a real argument that the old school way - e.g., reaching out to kids through their coaches and parents - is the appropriate one. I know the counterargument is that these kids put themselves out there through public Twitter and Facebook accounts, but I think that's weak. They're still kids, for one, and it's hard to expect them not to do that when all of their friends get to do it.
I'm guilty of some hypocrisy here, because I read your site (and others) and enjoy the information. At the same time, I've worked with high school kids, and I think there's a real need to protect them in unregulated spaces like this one.
You're making more than a few assumptions, aren't you? We've been rejected plenty of times for interviews. If a kid says no, that's the end of it. Have you seen any Kendall Fuller interviews on our site? How many Laquon Treadwell updates have you seen?
There's nothing malicious about taking a service people normally pay for and providing it for free if you're doing it the right way. There's a reason why coaches like the ones at Woodbridge in VA (2014 DE Da'Shawn Hand, #1 player in the class and someone who has probably had hundreds of requests for interviews) have invited Keith and myself to their school for a practice this summer. Or why the uncle of WR Derek Kief, who visited yesterday, made a point to send both Mark (mgobluegr) and myself a special thanks for doing the write-ups we've done on him the last couple days. We get a good amount of praise from coaches and parents alike and have never gotten negative feedback from either group.
It's not a perfect model, but there isn't one out there. I stand behind how we've done things though and it won't change.
EDIT: Much like the other post I responded to, I understand your sentiments, but I think our site has worked hard enough and shown through our work that we don't deserved to be lumped in with the "hundreds of other sites" that you're referring to.
I think we might be talking past each other. I didn't mean this as criticism of you or your site in particular - I meant it as a broader concern about the changing world of recruiting coverage. I'm not sure what you meant about the assumptions I'm making, and I'm not sure how your post really responds to mine.
The assumption you're making is that people don't appreciate sites like Tremendous. That assumption is clearly wrong considering the type of success he's had so quickly. His reply was regarding your comment, "You're assuming that what you guys do is a good thing." You being on this board is clearly proof that what he does do is indeed a good thing. People are obsessed with recruiting and the fact that there are some sites who share the information for free is a gift to fans.
Tremendous is a special site because they don't get info from the pay sites or anything like that, they actually do the work, which is damn impressive considering it's only a couple of them and how many recruits they've talked to. The "old-school" way of contacting a recruit via his parents or his coach is just like you said, old-school. The world moves on and if recruits live on Twitter and Facebook the way they do today, then there is nothing wrong with trying to get an interview or a top-5 list from them. It only becomes crossing the line when someone pushes him to attend a certain school, which he has never done.
The world is changing, and so is recruiting. If you were a parent of a top recruit and didn't want 50 sites after him for an interview, you can do what 2014 WR Derek Kief's parents did, and create a Twitter account and website strictly for his recruitment. Reporters and journalists are being referred to the site and Twitter account for questions about his recruitment so he doesn't get nagged. Twitter and Facebook have changed recruiting so people are starting to change their tactics. It's better to embrace technology and change as opposed to being stuck in the past. Yes, they are kids, but they are also treated like celebrities. That comes with the territory.
I definitely didn't assume that people don't appreciate sites like Tremendous. Hell, my last paragraph was a confession that I'm hypocritical with this, because I, myself, enjoy Tremendous. I just don't think that "Do some people like it?" should be the only criterion for evaluating whether something is healthy/appropriate.
I also disagree with your "that comes with the territory" conclusion, but I'll save that for another day.
Steve, stay above the fray on this; you're doing a good job getting millions of hits.
She's had some scoops including the first interview of Su'a Cravens (while everyone else was trying to reach him) and as well as other recruits. Recruits like her and they talk to her. Her job like others is to build a relationship with recruits to open the flow of information for all of us recruiting junkies. That relationship starts on Twitter these days. I cant criticise her methods on Twitter since I don't tweet but they seemed to work.
She was also much more respectful than this site in handling Joe Mathis. Rather than jump on the bandwagon and imply he's a flake for switching favorites to Nebraska (which doesn't build relationships with recruits either btw) she called him up right away and asked what happened and got a credible answer. That shows maturity.
She does re-tweet everything on recruiting but so does everyone else. Her re-tweets of Dawson I think this group appreciates.
What I don't get is why dudes on this site and elsewhere are complaining. There are a lot of other new blog sites and analysts that are much much worse. Seems a bit odd to me given the facts.
She also actually talked to Dawson when that whole "visiting Florida" crap hit the fan, and got the story straight from him, rather than trying to interpret cryptic tweets or retweeting others.
I agree with BoandHokeFan... Sarah has a reasonably well-established Michigan recruiting blog, and it seems clear that she has connections with recruits and is able to provide information direct from recruits, which makes her just as credible in that respect as any other blog "recruiting guru." So it also makes me wonder why so many on this blog jump in with "who the fuck is that chick?" every time information from her is quoted.
Sit here hitting F5 since that would be more interesting than anything else that's going on at work today. I have a feeling it will be the first commit of the 2014 class though, which would be cool too I suppose.
So is USC done with Ramsey's anouncement? That's recruit number 15.
Too bad for everyone who came out these past weeks saying "USC is my leader too!" if that's the case.
If 3 of the commits early enroll, they can back date those commitments to the 2012 class. The only sticking point is they have to stay at 75 scholarships. Right now, they only have 14-15 graduating seniors so they would need another 3-4 scholarships to open through attrition (transfers or RS Juniors not getting a 5th year).
If they do go to 18 in 2013, they would be limited to no more than 15 in 2014 as they would not be able to back date any early enrollees because they took the full 15 in 2013.
Pacing thank you Ms Hughs. When I saw the site down I couldn't wait to see to get back on here. I hope its Green, Fuller or Quan (very important needs all) especially after the Isaac kick in the nuts.
There should be a way to downvote for being "unintelligible."
Anyone got this brain buster figured out?
Now the already played out, super annoying "It's Stefon Diggs" posts in commitment watch threads are going to morph into "It's Stefon Diggs. Seriously." Get ready to read that one countless times.
Or things like this happen:
I can't tell you but I know.
Can't you guys just take the information and be happy about it?
First of all, I never said anything to Ty Isaac regarding playing behind Michigan's o-line. That is ridiculous. I may have retweeted another recruit but I would never say that to him considering that could be a violation.
Second of all, I contacted a current commit today who told me who the 2 recruits who are supposedly comitting soon are. I gave you guys a hint on Twitter by saying it's probably our best-case scenario but that's all I could say because the commit specifically told me not to say anything. Why would I break his trust? So he never tells me anything again? That wouldn't be very smart now, would it? Why would I break two kids' commitments before they want everyone to know? I'm not a journalist or a reporter, have never claimed to me, so it's not my job to "break" commitments. I have no gain in that.
And about Tremendous saying "good luck" to a recruit...you guys must be joking. That's a bad thing now? Some of you need a reality check.
For those who had my back -- thank you. At least some people can appreciate free information.
I think most (who have kept silent like myself while a few snipe at you) do appreciate the info you put out there *free*. Keep up the good work...
Now, should we---or shouldn't we---buckle up?
I barely ever post anymore because most people on this site who do have become ridiculously spoiled and just whine over dumb things. I just logged in to say thanks for the info the majority realizes that although we don't use twitter or maybe even like the idea of tweeting high school recruits, your job (and Tremendous') requires it! You provide a service that everyone commenting in this thread enjoys and to bash you for it is extremely hypocritical.
Keep doing what you're doing, we will all keep reading, and mostly thanks for not giving away who the commits are! I remember when TomVH was on this site EVERYONE applauded his restraint to not break these news against these kids wishes. Now everyone slams you for doing the same thing. Let us know when you can give us more info, with the kids approval of course, and when the commitment comes post an interview you had typed up with Dawson over a week before he committed. That is the only way I can think to shut some of these people up. If you care about the criticism!
You are not the only one. Perhaps it is just the slow season but over the last three to four weeks the attitude has picked up. Talk about eating your own. There is a contingent on here that take themselves way to serious. It doesn't help that some people also are prone to internet braveness when responding to fellow posters.
Sarah, the majority on here really appreciate your efforts. Keep it up as we would hate to see you move on. For those, like myself, who have careers and family and don't really have the free time to browse all the recruiting services, we greatly depend on solid fan driven sites. Keep up the good work and Go Blue! I look forward to finding out who will be joining the class soon.
This is well said.
It is not required to have a player rating system and act like a snob to contribute information to Michigan fans about recruites.
Sarah, just ignore the critics. That is all.
Trust me, I've ignored plenty of "critics," but if someone is misquoting me, I have to say something. I don't tell recruits to come to Michigan. There are tons of fans who do that, one more message from me isn't gonna do anything for them.
Yes she is!
i think we should put this to rest. i, for one, do greatly appreciate the updates and news that Sarah and Steve and the others provide. i think they do a great job and they are reaching a huge audience. but i also think that it's fair for people to criticize certain aspects of the process, and it's likewise fair for people to criticize those that are being critical. all healthy stuff that keeps everything in balance. i think the unprecedented access that twitter gives to everyone is just a bit dangerous and it seems to have escalated the pressure that is being put on recruits and is probably one of the primary reasons for this phenomenon of kids committing earlier and earlier -- and it remains to be seen if this is a good thing. but if the recruits are cool with it (and many, if not most, of them seem to be), then we should be cool with it. just an observation.
at any rate, i just wanted to thank Sarah and Steve and the others and apologize. now, let's get back to the task at hand.
Whose i.d. photo is Mike Martin which is akin to a little boy running around shouting "i'm really knowledgeable about football cause I have pictures of Mike Martin"
Not being a journalist/reporter is to your benefit ! I'm still trying to figure out why it seems that every single male recruiting analyst out there looks like they have never played a quarter of JV high school ball. You can say that you came to this profession out of interest rather than envy.
Some guy said something about " if i had a 15yr old son" blah, blah..Well you DONT..I got corrected on spelling.. (Its a blog. Not a term paper).. Your doing a great job and keep us informed... If they didnt care, why do they keep talking about you... These people give Michigan fans a bad name..GO BLUE
It is sad to see this board turn into such a cynical place. The whole contacting 15-17 year olds on Twitter is wrong and complaining about the people who give you the information needed to get through your work day is simply pathetic. It's information. It's not like the people who run these sites are asking them out for dinner or something. If you don't like it, don't read it. Do not taint the water from the very well you drink from!
Your post (accidentally) illustrates the problem. You say that contacting 15-17 year olds online whom you've never met is a bad thing, which seems right to me, but then you imply that we should sit back and let the experts do it. But now, anyone can put together a site in 15 minutes and claim to be an expert. If we're talking about letting Sam Webb do this kind of work, I generally agree. He has been trained in how to do this, probably shows some restraint when it's appropriate, and has strong incentives to behave responsibly (a bad reputation could cost him his livelihood and seriously damage his well established employer). If I start a blog tomorrow, though, I'd have every reason to pester these kids until they give me what I want. If it works, hey, I have content; if it doesn't, oh well. Now imagine hundreds of these "experts" popping up around the country and what the consequences are for the 15-year olds with Twitter accounts who can be contacted by any of them without them having to go through coaches or parents first.
Has Sam Webb been "trained" to do things like this? This is a serious question. I don't know much about his background. His track record indicates that he's good at what he does and isn't a creepy creepster, but I don't know if he's been "trained" or just has more experience.
Good question. I don't know and that might be a bad example, but I'd imagine that, if nothing else, Scout and Rivals train or mentor people internally. My broader point is that a world with a couple of recruiting sites that might contact kids (ideally through coaches/parents, whom they don't want to upset) seems preferable to one in which anyone who calls himself an expert can pester kids directly without any real consequences.
First off...you miss read my post. I was talking about the complaining and issues with the twitter thing. I know there are creepers out there who approach these kids with the wrong intent, but this is about sports. It would be like going to your high school alma maters' football game. You may not know any of them, but your still interested in their success. Nobody that you have mentioned is "harassing" these kids. They are simply trying to obtain information so that people like you and me can follow the recruiting scene. The players and their parents can chose to not allow information to be released. It's their choice. Nobody is forcing them to talk, nor are they harassing them. They all have reputations to uphold regardless of if they are formally employed by a newspaper.
"Nobody is forcing them to talk, nor are they harassing them."
Part one of this sentence is probably true.
But I don't think you have any idea whether part two is true or not. In fact, I might argue the opposite...
Fair enough, my point was only that we are here looking for recruiting tid bits, then complaining about how they were obtained. I shouldn't have went down that rabbit trail....
Agree. Think about life at 15 years old. In addition to school and practice, these kids have homework, family obligations, etc. Having to deal with a bunch of adults willing to say anything to you to squeeze out the information they want - when you are way too young to know how to handle this stuff to begin with - would be brutal.
By the way, Magnus, you're one whom I admire on this front, because I do think you show restraint. Well, unless you're suggesting that a kid has character concerns because you didn't like the way that he crossed the goalline once. :)
I've only contacted one recruit that didn't try to contact me first, and that was Erik Magnuson, who accepted my interview request. I don't follow any kids on Twitter, although I have tweeted at them when Andrew posts their interview on TTB, just so they can see their own interview.
Personally, I think it's a conflict of interest for interviewers to also be analyzing/criticizing players. I don't feel that I can be an objective analyst of a kid's skills if I'm also trying to build a relationship with him that will produce inside information and interviews. Sites like Scout and Rivals rarely say anything remotely negative about kids, because they count on the kids and their coaches for interviews.
Where the hell did Sam Webb get trained to talk to recruit.. Must have missed that course.. Your on a blog talking about kids yourself pickle
This would be best-case scenario. McQuay could be feeling the squeeze since this class for us and USC are nearly full, but he won't be at the BBQ.