Some Numbers on Rich Rodriguez at Michigan
Was reading Off Tackle Empire and found a great complete post about some numbers that RR has compiled while at Michigan. Full credit goes to the OP, he did a great job, can't say it wasn't painful to read though. My jaw didn't just drop, it fell off.
http://www.offtackleempire.com/2011/1/4/1912335/rodriguez-what-he-hath-wrought-by-the-bad-numbers
Please, before you comment on how this did not need to be posted, check out the link. The title of this post does not start with CC or is in regards to someones tweets, so that's always a good thing these days. Good luck getting through it.
January 4th, 2011 at 2:40 AM ^
Now you're just piling on......
January 4th, 2011 at 2:55 AM ^
True...but reality is just that depressing.
January 4th, 2011 at 3:15 AM ^
It's not really depressing, because certain people on this blog have already posted that stuff ad nauseum. It's just kind of restating the same things that everyone already knows.
Also, it is definitely written by an OSU fan with an emphasis on the drama.
January 4th, 2011 at 9:59 AM ^
Ok, it's fair to note how many people have previously posted those stats of horror (albeit, not in one tidy list). But, where's the parallel "whatever" for the folks saying "bare cupboard" or other such excuses? Repetition is likely the nature of the beast here and the only "drama" in those numbers is how bad they are when viewed all together like that.
January 4th, 2011 at 2:45 AM ^
What was that business about NCAA violations? The author attributed that to Rodriguez? The baloney begins right there, doesn't it? Crap, with an extra spoonful of crapola. It's not even worth parsing all the numbers.
January 4th, 2011 at 2:47 AM ^
What legitimate evidence do you have that RR is going to eventually work out?
January 4th, 2011 at 2:54 AM ^
The same legitimate evidence that says we will do better with anyone, even Harbaugh, at head coach.
January 4th, 2011 at 3:01 AM ^
to more know than real, true experts. Rich Rodriguez, and yes Jim Harbaugh and Brady Hoke have all forgotten more about football coaching than I'll ever know. I could easily say that Rich Rodriguez made the smart, necessary choice not once but twice when he begged Jeff Casteel to join him in Ann Arbor. That, alone, would have eliminated "Scott Shafer" and "Greg Robinson." But I don't know, and neither do you. No one can predict the future, any better than we can guess at a hypothetical past. You can say, Jim Harbaugh's past record guarantees future success. We said the same about Rich Rodriguez once.
What I do know is that Rich Rodriguez has been treated unfairly. The University of Michigan community should be ashamed, for the way some of its members have treated him.
January 4th, 2011 at 3:13 AM ^
What I do know is that Rich Rodriguez has been treated unfairly. The University of Michigan community should be ashamed, for the way some of its members have treated him.
I'm inclined to believe that before this year, you'd be right. Some (not all) fans treated Rodriguez unfairly. This, however, is one of the most prominent positions in college football. If Rodriguez couldn't handle the pressure and criticism that was inevitable at just this type of position, Rosenberg and Freep shenanigans excepted, he never should have come.
Now? His record at this point leaves him fair game to the type of treatment you describe.
January 4th, 2011 at 9:29 AM ^
but our coaching position is not one of the prominent positions in college football. We have won exactly 1 NC in the last 60 years. During that time at least 14 schools have won multiple NCs and Auburn has a chance to join that group which also includes Michigan State. We have been a very successful program, but have not been considered among the elite for a while by the majority of college football.
We have great traditon, the best helmets, biggest stadium, and great academics. Over the last 20 years our football program pales in comparison to what the hockey team has accomplished.
January 4th, 2011 at 3:43 AM ^
You win, you get passes for things.
You lose, you don't.
This shouldn't be that surprising. And it's not some sort of crime against humanity, it's a football coach at a major American University earning millions of dollars a year in a major media market. He's an adult. He's in a high profile job. Criticism goes with the territory, and Rich Rodriguez clearly does not handle it well, nor, it seems, do his supporters.
So let's stop getting longwinded and indignant about how Rich Rodriguez was "treated" and start acknowledging it's time to start moving in a new direction. And once that happens, it's going to be rich to watch people like you do to the new guy the exact same things that you got you all hot and bothered these past three years.
Will Section 1 avail us with epic tomes defending the honor of the new head football coach? My guess? Not in a million years. He's had too much fun these past few days being snarky, rude, and fiercely defensive of Rich Rodriguez and Bill Martin. Why not continue the fun, right?
January 4th, 2011 at 3:57 AM ^
to Rich Rodriguez with all the same loyalty and enthusiasm that you had for Rodriguez. Bando.
January 4th, 2011 at 4:01 AM ^
Well, at least we have it on record. Snark away.
And my loyalty is to the University of Michigan. Not to any coach. I want what's in the best interest of the University of Michigan, and if we've learned anything in the past week, it's that my growing suspicions these past three years are true: What's best for the University of Michigan is not Rich Rodriguez.
Sorry it didn't work out. We'll move on, and we'll win this time.
January 4th, 2011 at 4:04 AM ^
And here I thought that you were going to thrill me, with some archived bit where you actually did betray some genuine enthusiasm for Michigan's Head Football Coach...
January 4th, 2011 at 8:04 AM ^
I know you're used to it by now Bando, but I still personally can't believe the shit you take for having your views empirically validated over the last three years. If anything, I feel like an idiot for not calling for Rodriguez's head SOONER than after the Miss St. loss. There is a three year body of evidence on Rich Rodriguez. How can anyone honestly argue that his impending firing is anything but of his own making?
January 4th, 2011 at 3:45 AM ^
Any way you slice it, our program's performance under Rodriguez thus far has been absolutely terrible in comparison to past Michigan coaches. And yes, while the violations were trivial and probably would never have been found out if it weren't for a hit job by the Free Press (the reason I say probably is because of the QC staff thing), they still happened.
At this point, you are simply denouncing facts that you don't like.
January 4th, 2011 at 8:54 AM ^
What's untrue about first ever finding of major violations? It was. No matter what the Freep overreported, there were major violations. And those blaming Lloyd Carr's staff need not look past the fact that the same violations happened when he was at WVU. It may have been a mistake but it happened.
January 4th, 2011 at 2:46 AM ^
Stats are good when seeking closeminded, emotional responses from people, so they should be taken with a grain of salt. But, you can't deny how depressing it is looking at those all layed out in front of you. The worst is that they get worse from 2008 to 2010.
January 4th, 2011 at 3:08 AM ^
Just about all of those stats were depressing, but this is the one that sticks out the most:
2008 defense gave up the most points ever (346 total)
2010 defense blew away the 2008 record for most points given up ever (458)
346 to 458. We would have to make a significant improvement on D next year just to be what used to be known as the worst Michigan defense ever.
January 4th, 2011 at 9:11 AM ^
With these sorts of stats, I think it's always better to look at per-game averages rather than the overall season totals, given that the number of games per season has gone up over the years. Of course, in this case, the following per-game averages for 2010 are also the worst in Michigan football history:
- Points allowed per game: 35.2 (previous record: 28.9 in 2008; pre-Rodriguez record: 23.8 in 1962)
- Total yards allowed per game: 450.8 (previous record: 393.3 in 2009; pre-Rodriguez record: 389.9 in 2000)
January 4th, 2011 at 8:54 AM ^
Going from experienced seniors to inexperienced freshmen will tend to produce results like that.
January 4th, 2011 at 2:53 AM ^
As soon as I saw, under the OSU related stats, "(likely) only coach to never beat OSU" I figured I didn't really want to read the rest. I have grown to hate a large portion of our fanbase as of late.
January 4th, 2011 at 2:54 AM ^
I also stopped reading after that.
January 4th, 2011 at 2:56 AM ^
I might also point out he spelled his name with a "q" in there somewhere as well. Great job.
January 4th, 2011 at 2:56 AM ^
The guy who wrote that seemed to be a Ohio State fan (with SB nation name WarBuck####)
January 4th, 2011 at 3:01 AM ^
January 4th, 2011 at 3:15 AM ^
Sort've true. Defensively it's only gotten worse though. 2010 broke the yardage and points records and that cant be ignored in a coach's 3rd year.
All of the OSU stuff still applies too even ignoring 2008. Home loss to Purdue was in 2009 (and a really, really winnable game too).
All the numbers involving not beating good teams apply to 2009 and 2010 too. Losing back to back to Michigan State is bad even not counting 2008.
I really want the 2008 numbers to not count also, but none of the other numbers look good. I like Coach Rod as a person and I hope he succeeds where he goes next. It's getting hard to justify keeping him though given these 3 years. I agree that fans treated him badly in some cases, but its hard for me to feel too bad for a multimillionaire. I'll gladly have everybody in Ann Arbor write about how I'm not a Michigan Man for the milions upon millions of dollars RRod has earned.
January 4th, 2011 at 4:28 AM ^
To answer the special teams "questions":
NOTE: I do not know where to find this information. Thus, I offer only questions. In 2010, MI was 4 for 14 in field goals.
did the 2010 MI team attempt the fewest FGs ever for MI? ever for CFB?
No. 20 other teams attempted less than 14 field goals just this season (including Rose Bowl winner TCU - they were 11 for 13). Michigan last attempted less than 14 FG in 1992 (they went 6 for 10 that year), though they attempted only 15 in both 2008 and 2009. RichRod doesn't kick a lot of field goals.
did the 2010 MI team make the fewest FGs ever for MI? ever for CFB?
is a 28.6% made FG percentage the worst all time for MI? for CFB?
No. Most recently, Duke went 3 for 11 in 2007 (27.3%). Kent State went 2 for 10 in 2006 (20.0%). However, dating back to 1984 (the earliest I could find records), no Michigan team has made less than 4 in a season or had a worse than 28.6% rate. I'm pretty confident it has happened, though.
/obsessive compulsive disorder
January 4th, 2011 at 4:37 AM ^
Michigan didn't attempt a lot of field goals these past few seasons not because RR "doesn't attempt a lot of field goals," but rather because our kickers were so inconsistent we were forced to go for it on 4th down instead of trying field goals any good high school kicker could be expected to make.
When it's not out of the realm of reasonability to suggest going for it inside the twenty every time instead of putting 3 points on the board, it's not because of an aversion to kicking the ball.
Although this is some great data. Well compiled.
January 4th, 2011 at 4:45 AM ^
Michigan was 10 for 15 (66.67%) in 2008 and 11 for 15 (73.33%) in 2009. That's not really "inconsistent" - the national median is usually ~70% and ~18-20 attempts.
In 2007, RichRod was 13 for 19 at WVU. In 2006, he was just 5 for 7.
January 4th, 2011 at 9:09 AM ^
However, dating back to 1984 (the earliest I could find records), no Michigan team has made less than 4 in a season or had a worse than 28.6% rate. I'm pretty confident it has happened, though.
There actually were a number of seasons when Michigan attempted no field goals at all, but that was before 1959, when the goal posts were widened from 18'6" to 23'4". Even after that, Michigan had only 3 field goal attempts in 1960 and 1962. I'm not sure how many were made in 1960, but it appears they went 1 for 3 in 1962.
January 4th, 2011 at 7:09 AM ^
Missed one:
only coach to only be allowed three seasons as coach of the University of Michigan.
January 4th, 2011 at 8:36 AM ^
The image of a guy blitzed out of his mind, way in debt to the house and doubling down at the blackjack table convinced more time and more hands will make it right, is never far from my mind whenever anyone pushes for more years of Rich. Or whenever anyone tries to sell the idea that he is being denied some huge breakthrough in 2011.
Maybe if he's won a hand or two to give everyone hope.....
Just being honest.
It isn't a reasonable position for a program as huge and important as Michigan.
January 4th, 2011 at 8:43 AM ^
Great analogy about the gambler. Cue someone posting a photo of Kenny Rogers ... now.
January 4th, 2011 at 10:44 AM ^
Those that do, realize that teams get better when they return over 90% of their roster after getting zero contribution from their senior class. They also realize that Rodriguez inherited a shitty team and has made it better two years in a row, no matter what their helmets looked like.
Those that don't, are people like you and dahblue.
What evidence did you see to indicate Jim Harbaugh would go 12-1 this year? Hmmm? His 90th ranked defense in year three on the job? Losing to Wake Forest? I bet Stanford fans are sure glad they took that roll of the dice.
You are a moron.
January 4th, 2011 at 11:08 AM ^
and Communist Football stand alone in this line of thinking. We should form a club. What should we name this club?
January 4th, 2011 at 11:20 AM ^
How can you call someone else a moron when you're comparing the most insignificant part of Harbaugh's record to RR? The reason fans want Harbaugh is he has actually competed with top teams throughout his tenure, and he even beat #1-ranked USC in his first year on the job after Stanford went 1-11. The top three teams we played this year, not remotely as good as that USC team? Lost 48-28, 37-7 and 52-14.
January 4th, 2011 at 8:36 AM ^
Why aren't they bringing up the roster he was left with from the previous coaching staff? Looking at numbers only, without looking at why they are happening, is foolish. There is a reason he is starting most of his own players by year 3 and it isn't because the previous coaches actually had good recruiting. If you are left with crap players, you have losing seasons. He has improved a horrible situation that he inherited, why doesn't this article mention the fact that he continues to improve each year?
January 4th, 2011 at 8:48 AM ^
It's only 8:30 and we've already blamed Lloyd Carr.
January 4th, 2011 at 9:01 AM ^
Who else do you want to blame Carr's last two recruiting classes on?
For me, I trust Carr had plenty of reasons for not getting DBs in those classes - some switched positions, some flamed out, some didn't pan out, and some were finagled away on signing day. For whatever reason, there were a lot of holes in our depth chart that needed to be addressed in 2008 and they couldn't all be filled. It happened under Carr but that doesn't mean "he's a bad coach/idiot/whatever."
But it would be nice if those who cry, "don't blame Carr for things he couldn't control under his watch" would extend the same courtesy to RR- especially as it relates to lazy players transferring (not all but a good chunk), broken ankles and legs, and people declaring early for the draft.
January 4th, 2011 at 9:31 AM ^
At least for me. I don't understand the logic behind taking Lloyd recruits who he never had a chance to work with and then blame Lloyd Carr when they dont' perform. Seems to me most of the work isn't recruiting, but rather molding what you have into a complete unit. Harbaugh seems to understand this, and I would argue Carr did as well. The only argument I have seen here that makes sense is regarding the total change in offensive schemes causing problems with Carr's recruits.
That makes sense, but also doesn't appear to be the problem RR had. When Carr was around most of the complaints seemed to be that he never did enough with the talent he had and then as soon as he was gone the argument went to we had no talent, he left the cupboards bare.
I think the problem all along has been that prior to RR, LC was viewed as a placeholder as a coach for the Wolverines. We had a program Carr just oversaw it. Nobody lined up to vehemently support Carr (other than his players), but rather supported the Michigan program. Since RR came along it seems like some of the loyalty we all used to feel to Michigan football shifted to support and loyalty to RR beyond even logic of his failures.
I think he will end up making a move similar to Charlie Weiss when this is all said and done.
January 4th, 2011 at 9:38 AM ^
Carr did leave some good talent but there were huge wholes in the roster once he retired and there weren't enough quality, experienced players to fill those gaps. We went from 85 scholarship players to around 65. If that doesn't scream that there was a problem, I don't know what can.
You can mold underclassmen all you want but they won't perform as well as upperclassmen. And the offensive sheme had little to do with it because most of our line was playing for the first time and had never played in Carr's scheme - they were that young.
January 4th, 2011 at 10:15 AM ^
But, to me we have heard this recurring story now for three years regarding the huge hole and on defense it just seems to be getting worse. At least some of the hole created and still existing falls on RR.
Worst part to me regarding our performance, is that our offense seems inept against good teams and especially later in the year. This normally shouldn't happen, unless we are being outscouted and outcoached.
January 4th, 2011 at 10:55 AM ^
When a team gets almost no contribution from its senior class it makes it very hard to win. When that small senior class wasn't recruited by the guy being blamed for losing with them, then it makes sense to point it out.
I'm sorry some people don't realize how long it takes to rebuild a team or how bad Michigan was when Rodriguez coached his first game, but that is the reality of the situation no matter how impatient you are.
January 4th, 2011 at 9:56 AM ^
The defense did not improve. The special teams did not improve. The offense improved overall, but actually got worse as the seasons progressed. I know it's easy to blame someone else, but the coach bares all responsibility for his terrible records even if, in some areas, he might have been working with a less-than-perfect situation.
January 4th, 2011 at 10:52 AM ^
Harbaugh year one: 8th in the Pac 10 in scoring defense, 9th in total defense
Harbaugh year three: 8th in the Pac 10 in scoring defense, 9th in total defense
Sure the win total went up and the offensive numbers are loads better with a promising second year QB, but I've seen enough to know this defense is just never going to get any better. UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!
January 4th, 2011 at 8:46 AM ^
We all know the last 3 years were terrible and nobody would argue this. Even RR will tell you that given the history of Michigan, his 3 seasons have been bad (we'd say terrible, but he'd likely say "disappointment").
Anyway, the question is the future not the past. How has RR positioned this team to perform next year and 3-5 years out? Does he have a solid foundation? Does he have the correct coaching staff in place? What is the outlook next year with ~20 starters coming back? That's why you'll see variouis MGo posters conducting statistical analysis to see if this team has shown any signs of improvement. It's a complicated answer, but just looking at the past 3 years = disaster. However, the past is the past and while it sucks, we (and DB) need to look at the future performance of Michigan Football with RR as HC.
January 4th, 2011 at 9:06 AM ^
Scary to see all of these records accumulated in one place.