Quinshon Judkins leaving Ole Miss Star RB-Rumor is not enough NIL

Submitted by klctlc on January 4th, 2024 at 12:25 PM

Just saw news on his departure come across X.  I have some good buddies who are dialed into Ole Miss and LSU.  My Ole Miss friend walked on at QB for a year, but decided it was not for him.

Anyways, I texted to see if maybe he left because they were making him go to class.  He said that the reason he is leaving is because Ole Miss did not step up on additional NIL.  My LSU buddy is saying the same thing with their guys.

I know this is not new, but I find this fascinating given Michigan's issues with NIL and how in many ways their current stance will likely have some benefit to the football program in the short term.(Overall not a fan of Michigan current NIL)

The locker rooms at most big time programs have got to be a mess right now. When even the Ole Miss and LSU slappies are complaining, you know the current structure cannot last.

They started discussing ways to fix it with actual contracts, but I don't think that is legal per the NCAA? Anyways, it is a timely topic with Michigan in the Finals with their NIL approach.  Maybe the team approach actually matters??

 

GO BLUE!

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WampaStompa

January 4th, 2024 at 12:36 PM ^

It seems like some teams have been getting big recruiting boosts from focusing on NIL, but that comes with the tradeoff of roster chaos and turnover down the line. I imagine that practicing the same plays with the same teammates for 3 years and building a strong chemistry with each other over that time has been a huge contributing factor for Michigan players becoming so good and allowing them to master their assignments and understand what each teammate is doing to win a play.

Joined: 11/20/2018

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BlueintheLou

January 4th, 2024 at 12:33 PM ^

Honestly, I love our approach to NIL, at the moment. Sure, could we spurge to get more higher rated recruits? Maybe. But the Ole Miss situation is a good example of how that backfires. Judkins has been a top tier RB, and he's not being rewarded for his work at his current team. Ole Miss is prioritizing players NOT on their team in recruiting and portal. Reward the guys in your program for their work, and it will make sense to all in the program why they are getting paid and not the younger or less impactful guys. It shows there is a hierarchy and that they'll get theirs if they grind. Seems like the optimal way to maintain culture. Reward performance.

Joined: 09/13/2008

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KC Wolve

January 4th, 2024 at 2:04 PM ^

agree with the sentiment on paying guys on the team vs paying new guys. That is always going to cause problems. It also depends on the player. He is def getting paid, but not as much as "He" thinks he should be paid. Those are the type of guys UM's staff would likely avoid at all costs. 

Joined: 10/09/2010

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Junior18

January 4th, 2024 at 12:39 PM ^

Given what it's assumed Ole Miss pays in NIL, this sounds to me like somebody came in with a HUGE bag and lured him away. It'll be interesting to see which team opened their checkbook. 

Joined: 12/01/2014

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Sione For Prez

January 4th, 2024 at 1:16 PM ^

Ole Miss has been a player in the transfer portal this year right? Presumably with high NIL dollars for incoming transfers. 

I can see how a guy who is already on the team and very productive at the college level could see how much some of these transfers are getting on the open market and forcing Ole Miss to pay to keep him especially if they didn't want to open the checkbooks to begin with. 

Wouldn't shock me to see him withdraw from the portal in a few days.

Joined: 11/16/2015

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BornInA2

January 4th, 2024 at 12:41 PM ^

I know how I would feel going to work every day, making the same effort and sacrifices, using up my body, etc. and paying $60k+ a year in tuition and housing as a walk-on while the 18 year-old next to me is getting paid millions.

Setting aside all the other conversation, the wealth inequality in this country, including college football and basketball, is obscene and unsustainable.

Joined: 02/15/2014

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KBLOW

January 4th, 2024 at 1:52 PM ^

By all evidence, so-called wealth inequality arose a few thousand years after the Neolithic revolution. Which is like barely 10% of the time since the dawn of humans. 

Even then, great civilizations such as what arose in the Indus River Valley seemed to function extremely well for 1000 years with minimal or no wealth inequality.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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Vasav

January 4th, 2024 at 1:56 PM ^

AHH I listen to Tides of History and they had a season on pre-history that culminated with the Neolithic and the bronze age and it is a FASCINATING time.

Anyways, I feel like there may be evidence of social/wealth inequality even before the neolithic in some parts of the world...The best hunters got some love, you know?

Also - one of my favorite historical fictions are "quest for fire" and now, "prey." Yes, the predator prequel is a damn fine and apparently accurate look at pre-european contact comanche society.

Joined: 12/13/2009

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jaggs

January 4th, 2024 at 1:12 PM ^

No one is forcing hypothetical you to use up your body. The only thing unsustainable about the college model is all the money going to suits, coaches, and athletic departments forced to spend the money every year, with the athletes carrying the water. 

I don't understand the sentiment of not wanting athletes to get paid, by what someone else is lawfully willing to give them. The fact the athletes have the opportunity to get paid so much goes to show the value they are bringing and not getting compensated for. 

The 'pay-to-play' discussion is simply an end-around whereby an athlete can sign an NIL deal that commences once they join a team. Whether that model is sustainable should be left to the individual programs imo. I love Michigan's approach of paying for one more year of a 21 year old they've had the opportunity to develop, rather than a 18 year old 5 star who they will spend time developing and who may leave at any point. 

Joined: 02/03/2009

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klctlc

January 4th, 2024 at 4:27 PM ^

One of the possible answers is unionizing or collective bargaining.  I am not advocating for it, but it may make sense. However, if that happens the superstars will theoretically get penalized, if you have a standard pay scale.  Maybe Qb's get paid more than place kickers (my two college roommates were kickers so sorry to diss them but they are not as valuable), but it still may not work fairly for all.

The NFL model works, but how do you put a salary cap into college athletics?.   

Joined: 09/02/2009

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jaggs

January 5th, 2024 at 12:39 PM ^

I just don't see how you would be able to legally limit an athletes NIL compensation. That would be like trying to cap endorsement dollars a professional athlete could earn. The pay-to-play has been around forever, and will continue to be around after whatever legislation comes through, at least now programs have a choice if they'd like to legally play that game or not. Getting rid of NIL will just put the payments back in the black market.

Joined: 02/03/2009

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dickdastardly

January 4th, 2024 at 12:44 PM ^

And a very big reason why Michigan might be the one school that can maintain a cohesive locker room because they won't do the pay for play model that many schools bought into.

Joined: 09/03/2020

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mGrowOld

January 4th, 2024 at 12:44 PM ^

Over the years I've had a lot of people who reported to me submit resignation letters because they were being offered more money elsewhere.  One thing I always did when that happened was ask them to walk me through the comp package they were offered to see if it was "too good to be true".  If it was a legit offer I would always wish them well and let them leave without countering.  If it wasnt I would advise the associate why I thought the package they were taking wouldnt pan out as they hoped (usually because bonus incentives were set far too high) but would also wish them well and wouldnt not try to talk them into staying.

Once someone has told you they are seeking the last dollar on their current deal, trust me they will leave again, usually sooner than later, because somebody will ALWAYS offer a bit more.  I think the schools that went all-in on the upfront NIL money to get prized recruits are learning this lesson the hard way.

Joined: 10/04/2010

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mGrowOld

January 4th, 2024 at 2:02 PM ^

Nothing wrong at all which is why you dont see me being critical of the associate, I'm simply acknowledging that those that wish to offer their services to the highest bidder will always end up leaving at some point which is why I never countered.  Because I knew that somewhere, somebody would always be able to offer a bit more than me and if the only consideration the associate had was comp, I would eventually lose that person.

There were lots and lots of other reasons people might want to leave that I would try and do something about: opportunities for advancement, work hours, reporting structure, bonus/MBO incentives and so on but bottom line comp, never.  You may keep them around for a short time but they've already indicated they're looking and have already told you they're ready to leave.

Joined: 10/04/2010

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Johnny Blood

January 4th, 2024 at 2:25 PM ^

Spot on and I do pretty much the same.

I read an article a long time ago (got to try and find it again) that showed once someone has resigned for purely financial reasons, if you end up countering to keep them, there is an absurdly high percentage (I believe it was around 90%) that end up leaving within a year anyway because the bond has been broken. 

Joined: 12/22/2010

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pescadero

January 4th, 2024 at 4:22 PM ^

Once a company has forced you to seek a counter offer to get market rate instead of just paying it, you should always decline the counter and leave. Once the company has told you they are seeking to pay you less than the market rate, trust me they will do it again, usually sooner than later,

Joined: 03/28/2013

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Buffalowing Blue

January 4th, 2024 at 12:46 PM ^

Makes you appreciate how Michigan doesn't get involved in bidding wars and keeping spoiled ass brats happy.

Play for Michigan, the coaches, and your teammates or go somewhere you think money will make you a happy guy.

Joined: 11/14/2022

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M_Born M_Believer

January 4th, 2024 at 1:31 PM ^

While on the surface I agree with what you are stating.  The essence of NIL right now is that you get paid for Potential not necessarily results.  Right now these HS kids are demanding $$$$$ based up POTENTIAL.

Now certainly the analogy can be made when going from college to pro, but there are some significant differences...

1) The leap from HS ball to D1 football is, in my opinion, greater than the leap from college to pros.  I based this opinion on the fact that 18 yo kids still have plenty of physical, mental, and emotional maturing to go over the next 4-5 years.  While a college Jr/Sr has gone through a good portion of the physical maturation process (ie, its "easier" to project a college senior to pros than a HS "stud" to D1 football).  Also, HS football has a much greater variance on competition.  Yes, someone can look great on the field, but if they are playing in Podunk Nowhere USA, that has to make you pause and guess if it will translate with much higher / balanced competition...

2) The process of the draft, and the amount of time/effort going into scouting is significantly more intense at the NFL level.  Again, this gives the NFL franchises the opportunity to make an assessment.

3) ***I am well aware this next statement is anti-capitalism***, but it is a factor.  Right now the leverage in these tit for tat "negotiations" favor the athletes in the NIL world, more schools willing to shill out bags of cash based upon potential than there are players with said potential.  While in the scenario of college to NFL, there is a salary cap, there is a draft, once drafted that is the ONLY team you can negotiate with for a full year and locked in for the 4-5 year contract.  Service render...service paid.  Takes the whole "free agency" aspect out of that transition.  NFL franchises are able to pick and choose who they feel fits their locker room culture (speaking as a Lions fan, this is something that Campbell and Holmes have been stating over and over again).

So, IN GENERAL, there are 18-20 yo kids that are looking for the quick pay, a few will make it to the next level (NFL) and really get paid.  Some won't make and are looking to some cash now because the money trails ends in just a few years.

The biggest moral of this is that IF an 18 yo is talking about money up front and dedication to training / developing second (or third)... It certainly would make one pause before deciding if he is the right fit in the locker room.  Because as it has been pointed out, the separation between the starving walk-on / depth scholly player living off of training table food and having to take the bus to class (or walk) compared to the NIL that is driving around his expensive sports car, clad out with his "drip" is a HUGE potential landmine in the locker room.  If there is even the slightest hint that Mr. NIL isn't "all in" on the team results (because he was paid regardless of results), that would certainly lead to a divided locker room...

Joined: 11/11/2009

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Double-D

January 4th, 2024 at 12:50 PM ^

I’m not so sure Michigan has an issue with NIL right now.  We may have some trouble pulling the super elite 5* kids that want to get paid big up front but we are getting program kids with talent and we develop them. And kids are getting paid and some are staying because of it.

Now with the portal we have a useful tool that works to our benefit. We can fill what few holes we may have with quality players that want to play for a winner. Think of the portal talent we have pulled the past few years and how much they have contributed. 

Joined: 12/21/2013

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Magnum P.I.

January 4th, 2024 at 2:21 PM ^

I do wish we would broadcast very publicly just how much people like J.J. and Blake are getting paid through NIL though. That would help recruiting. 

And I hope those guys are getting paid as much as anyone in the country. If you're not going to pay guys up front and instead promise riches once they establish themselves--you need to be loud and clear about just how much they stand to earn should they buy in to your approach.

Joined: 07/16/2009

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bronxblue

January 4th, 2024 at 12:55 PM ^

Ole Miss is a mediocre state school in maybe the poorest state in America.  There is a finite amount of rich guys who will give them money for football, and they clearly exhausted it with some of the transfer guys.  Back when far fewer teams handed out money Ole Miss could throw around $10-20k and get noticed, but now everyone can and they're not anything special.  So they have to stretch their budget and it's just not enough every season.

Joined: 11/22/2008

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OuldSod

January 4th, 2024 at 1:07 PM ^

Counterpoint: Kiffin is a good X&O coach who has created a stable, 3rd best in the SEC program. Ole Miss has a stable locker room and culture. They may miss out on some players but will continue to win and have a good chance at making the expanded playoff next year. The money issues may be true but that won't stop them from fielding a very good team. 

Joined: 11/20/2008

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