Poll: Not just change for change's sake?

Submitted by wolfman81 on

Everyone's got an opinion, and it can be hard to find the trends in the community due to the wave of all of the submissions and yelling that can go back and forth.  Otherwise our beloved sports forum will devolve into the worst politics forum on the internet and we will have to avoid...ourselves.  

To all of you who have been purposely avoiding the CC topics, I apologize for not putting CC in the title.  I don't want to exclude you from this community though (you do come here and read the blog!)  Hopefully you don't hate me for this misdirection.  I take zero responsibility for the comments below this post.  So if you have been avoiding CC topics, vote, then move on to the next topic.

So here is a link to a poll where you can provide your input and a few (short, respectful) comments.  I will aggregate these later and turn them into a diary post.  What can I say, I do education research for a living, and this is kind of what I do. :)

http://goo.gl/forms/GeJTyZWVGZ

Sledgehammer

October 13th, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^

Brandon is tarnishing the brand and preventing a great coach from coming here with his micromanaging ways. Hoke clearly is not cut out for the big time. He is incompetent and is holding the program back.

Mr Miggle

October 13th, 2014 at 11:39 AM ^

that we are advocating hiring coaches of the same level we already have. That's an interesting question. Would we prefer Mike DeBord or Ron English just to make a change? Nobody wants that, but we might be better off.

Fortunately there's a third option, aim much higher. Getting someone who looks like a sideways hire seems like it's nearly a worst case scenario. I'm in favor of taking that chance.

ontarioblue

October 13th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^

Unless whoever they target is indeed interested in the job and has agreed to the job. Visually the University does not want a repeat of the last two very public coaching hires were it was viewed that we had to settle for choice 4 or 5. I expect him back.

Blam Johnson

October 13th, 2014 at 12:12 PM ^

They know good *basketball* coaches. Because that's the sport they coach. 

Red Berenson wasn't part of John Beilein's hiring process, because that would make no sense. Being a "successful person at UM" is not a criterion for being able to identify a good next football coach. 

J.Madrox

October 13th, 2014 at 12:34 PM ^

Not that I believe Hutch or Beilein should have much say in who the next football coach is, but what exactly makes Dave Brandon qualified then to hire the next coach? His total of one game played at the college football level? Or his time running a major pizza company?

I don't really know who U of M should involve in this next coaching search, but to claim Beilein and Hutch would bring nothing to the table in finding a quality football coach seems off-base when I am not sure what qualifications a normal AD, let alone Dave Brandon bring.

Reader71

October 14th, 2014 at 11:54 AM ^

Yes, his one game makes him more qualified to judge football coaches than Beilein and Hutchins. To get into that game, he had to have been a part of a football team and had to have dealt with football coaches. He can still be wrong, but he is more qualified. Have you ever heard of a basketball coach hiring a football coach? The pizza company experience makes him more qualified to manage the athletic department's finances than Beilein or Hutchins. Not really relevant in this debate(?), but there is some value in having run a large operation for someone who wants to run the Michigan AD. Get a grip, guys.

Tuebor

October 13th, 2014 at 1:01 PM ^

It is common to have multiple interviews.  A "fit" interview and then a technical interview.  While Beilein and Hutch would not be qualitied to run a technical interview for a football coach I would trust them to be a part of a "fit" interview.

Mr Miggle

October 13th, 2014 at 1:23 PM ^

They can ask a lot of useful questions. The qualities that are needed to be successful coaches don't vary that much by sport. They should be able to spot BS better than most too.

They can ask how they structure practices and what responsibilites they give their assistants to judge their organizational skills.

They can ask how their football philosophy has evolved during their career, How or whether they've adjusted to the skill sets of their players. They won't be able to judge all the technical parts of those answers, but they're going to see how flexible, innovative and thoughtful the candidates are.

They can ask what they look for in the players they recruit and in the assistants they hire. They could also ask how they would deal with some of the specific challenges in recruiting and working at Michigan.

Asking the right questions is important. They won't be the only ones judging the answers. They won't be making any final decisions, but they have useful expertise that no one else on the committee is likely to match.

Jason80

October 13th, 2014 at 12:03 PM ^

And in college football either a coach wins quickly or he is replaced. Recruits will be excited at the chance to play at a school with a new staff but after years of mediocre play and rumors of coaching changes it becomes increasingly difficult to recruit. The poor results are still the determining factor necessitating change.

maizedNblued

October 13th, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^

if we would have flipped our last two coaching hires, would we still be in the same predicament? If we hired BH after Carr, would we still be in this mess? I understand that Hoke would have had zero experience but all of the key players who eventually transferred or left (Mallett, Manningham, Arrington, Boren) when RR was hired more than likely would have stayed so I imagine we wouldn't have had that huge drop off from 2008-2010. However, if BH turned out to be a bust during that period, then maybe we could have turned to someone like RR to take over and lead us in another direction from 2011 to present.

I'm Spitballing right now...

wolfman81

October 13th, 2014 at 12:40 PM ^

So this assumes that if Hoke had been hired in 2008, he'd have been fired in 2011 (when RR would have been hired).  I'm not sure the premise is valid.

I think that Rich Rod was doomed by two things:

  1. Philosophy change on offense, especially early in his tenure
  2. His terrible defenses.

A third could be added (the cupboard was bare), but I tend not to believe that as much since he'd done more with less at WVU.  I doubt that 3-9 would have happenned under fictional Coach Hoke in 2008, due to, in some part, philosophical similarities with Carr.  RichRod was asking Steven Threet to run the read option offense.  Part of his failing that season was pushing the players he had into an offense that didn't suit them.*  So my question is, if RR were hired for the 2015, what offense would he run with Shane Morris, Russell Bellomy, and Wilton Speight as his 3 scholarship QBs?  Does anyone see one of these guys running the Zone Read more than once or twice a game?

 

* And before the spread zealots say, "but what did you expect, to have him run the pro-style offense?" my response is, "Of course not."  But he could have run an offense more like he did back at Tulane: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/shaun-king-1.html  It wasn't exactly the spread and shred back then...

 

Monocle Smile

October 13th, 2014 at 12:46 PM ^

While the 2008 offense did indeed involve some read-option stuff, both Sheridan and Threet were given PLENTY of opportunities to drop back, go through a progression, and make a terrible throw. There were some pretty serious differences between the 2008 and 2010 offenses schematically. This "square peg in round hole" during 2008 was mostly overblown. The truth of the matter is that the offensive players were just not very good at football.

Personally, I think Morris has the athleticism to run a passing spread with some option elements.

Tuebor

October 13th, 2014 at 12:56 PM ^

RRod's biggest initial failing was losing Terrelle Pryor to OSU.  If he landed Pryor then Michigan would have had its spread QB in 2008.  In hindsight this probably isn't anything to wish for given the dirt on Pyror but it is relevant IMO.

Mr Miggle

October 13th, 2014 at 2:56 PM ^

I think he had no shot at getting Pryor. I always felt Pryor knew where he was going for a long time. He just dragged out his recruitment for the attention. He couldn't just wait though. He had to talk about another school to keep the media interested. We were the perfect candidate for that.

maizedNblued

October 13th, 2014 at 1:12 PM ^

but it's an interesting take. I think we all agree that the hiring of RR was too drastic of a climate shift offensively that we just weren't ready for. Our offense didn't have the playmaking pieces and it really put our defense, which I thought had talent, in bad spots. RR was ridiculously stubborn trying to run a read option with Threet and Sheridan and it led to his demise.

If RR were hired today and had Morris as his QB, I definitely think the offense would be in better hands than when he took over in 2008 - if anything I think it better suits Morris' skillset. The more I think of it, the more I believe that if we flip-flopped BH and RR, we wouldn't be in this mess - but it is what it is.

YaterSalad

October 13th, 2014 at 8:11 PM ^

While I appreciate the bible that is 3 And Out ... We have no time table for the Carr - Mallett conversation. Isn't there a possibility that Rich Rod made it clear to Ryan that he was going all in for Pryor? Then, when Mallett spoke to Carr, he said to look elsewhere since the writing was on the wall? That seems pretty plausible given any head coach - player relationship. To think Mallett wouldn't consult the guy who recruited him for advice during a coaching change is just plain dumb. Carr was looking out for a former player, not trying to hose RR or the program.

BlueinOK

October 13th, 2014 at 12:20 PM ^

It's time to clean house. There's been enough time to be successful, and it hasn't happened. We are playing football in the 90s when the game is changing. Michigan needs to change with it. 

chatster

October 13th, 2014 at 3:04 PM ^

I’ve returned the favor of an upvote.
 
Because (a) I’ve considered that the “81” in your screen name might refer to your year of birth (though I could be wrong), and (b) if you were born in 1981, then you might’ve heard and might recall some of the music being played during your infant years, I wonder whether you’d considered having your poll adding the option to vote for either Tears for Fears' "Change" or INXS’s "Don’t Change".
 
Unlike you, I don't do educational research, but just from my observations of comments from MGoBloggers, I'm guessing that the prevailing sentiment suggests that people have been listening to a Sam Cooke song on repeat.