This world is just not a good
Eh
Unless you wanna go full-on Minority Report, we'll never be able to stop stuff like this. For every nut job like this, there are a few hundred million of us living nice, normal lives
But when was the world a
But when was the world a "good place"?
Dothepose clearly is pining
Dothepose clearly is pining for the dark ages.
Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th
I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm
he's probably jacques barzun
should've guessed that guy would recognize the greatness of michigan.
RIP my avatar, June 14, 1998 - October 26, 2012.
The world was a better place ...
when we were kids and were sheltered from much of the unfortunate stuff going on.
Except for those unfortunate kids subject to abuse, which makes crimes against kids so heinous.
Taking it one week at a time
Charts? Charts.
Steven Pinker charts the decline of violence from Biblical times to the present, and argues that, though it may seem illogical and even obscene, given Iraq and Darfur, we are living in the most peaceful time in our species' existence.
http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html
I hear that the
1950s were pretty cool.
"I hate losing more than I like winning." - Zack
Anymore?
I hate to break it to you, but this isn't new.
The world was never a good
The world was never a good place. Do I really have to bring up all of astrocities that have occured in the past but was never reported prior to the development of mass media.
astrocities
actually sound pretty cool. were they on mars? \spellcheck
RIP my avatar, June 14, 1998 - October 26, 2012.
Was thinking the Space Emporer
of Space when I read it. There were astrocities in his boyhood life, which is why his family immigrated to Ohio, Earth (?!?!?, must've been pretty bad to immigrate to Ohio ...)
I will counter that
It used to be that depending on where you lived and the group you were targeting, things like this were socially acceptable. Very few places in the world any longer condone anything like this. YOu can never stop all the whack jobs, but at least you can make sure that people on their way to becoming wackjobs don't feel encouraged towards it.
This world is just not a good
This world is just not a good place anymore.
I know the point you are trying to make, but the world has never been a particularly great place. We just hear about the horrible stuff more frequently now than in the past.
Interesting Point
The proliferation of media has indeed made the availability heuristic and much of the work of Tversky and Kahneman all too real, in my opinion. Stories like this appear with increasing frequency, so we tend to think of them as more common, when they are more than likely as rare as they have always been. I know they've done studies where people have been asked to estimate the crime rate of a city based solely on news reporting, and they overestimate the frequency of some crimes by 10 to 20 times (more, in a few cases) their actual per capita rate.
Still, it doesn't make stories like this any less tragic and terrible. My thoughts also go out to all who were injured as well as their families.
"Funny isn't it, how naughty dentists always make that one fatal mistake."
Follow the random tweets of a Michigan alum - http://twitter.com/#!/LorneEC3
We also hear about the good stuff far, far more frequently.
Michigan Football Players make music video doesn't produce readers/clicks the way "insert lurid headline here" does.
May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift
And I'd agree that the world
And I'd agree that the world isn't some magical place because backup QBs make rap videos...actually, never mind. If Higgs boson doesn't reaffirm your belief in humanity as being capable of doing anything, the CONER definitely should.
Don't be such a drama
Don't be such a drama queen.
Things are better than they've ever been, ever.
For example, right now I'm using a magic machine to speak with you, and this machine can instantly connect me to just about anywhere in the world.
I could walk down to an ER, saw off my hand, and they'd fucking put it back on.
Millions of people have died (and still are dying of) diarrhea. In America, people get that shit twice a week from eating Taco Bell.
I can have a dissenting opinion without being burned alive, and do something weird without being called a witch and cast off of a cliff into the ocean.
If I want to go somewhere I can take my driving machine to a flying machine and be anywhere on the Earth in a matter of hours.
The world we live in is fucking magic.
HOKEAMANIA RUNNIN' WILD
Formerly, TheLastProphet
I Say To Myself, What A Wonderful World
I think that LastHoke is correct here. What's most interesting to me is why so many folks come to conclusions similar to the OP's.
I think a lot of it has to do with the (freakin' magic) explosion in communications technology, and the media growth that has quickly followed. 25 years ago, the main sources of news were newspapers, TV news, and magazines. It was difficult to fit all that much news in the available media space (which is why we have all the AP Handbook writing that lingers on - the conventions in that handbook put a premium on shortening the characters used in a story). And it was costly to transfer photos, video, etc., whereas now I can take a video with my mobile phone and post it to the world without leaving my car.
Bottom line is that in 1987, there were far fewer news stories available, and editors had to put together a mix that would appeal to all spectra of their audience. So you couldn't put out 30 negative news stories a day. Now, we have virtually unlimited space to put content before anyone with a computer, dozens of news stations (most with a 24 hour news cycle), and other outlets. Bad news sells, and we're increasingly inundated with it.
So it's a reasonable perception that the world's going to hell in a handbasket, but there's lots of evidence that the average person is safer, healthier, etc., than they were in years past.
By the way, while nearly all of us have faced hardships and tragedies, whether the world is a bad place or a good place is not really an objective matter. A lot of it is in attitude.
Yep. It's the culture of
Yep. It's the culture of fear proliferated by the media. Anyone who wants to know more about this should watch the movie Bowling For Columbine, real eye opening.
CJK5H
I only get diarrhea once a
I only get diarrhea once a week from eating Taco Bell, but it lasts all week so I guess your point still applies. And on Mgoblog if you have a dissenting opinion you will have most of, if not all of those things happen to you, so that point is total bullshit. But yeah, magic, bitches. Magic.
Special Teams means special times!
In my opinion...
...per capita misery has been pretty steadily decreasing for the last hundred years. The good old days were no picnic.
As a matter of fact I like beer.
Very tragic news. But
Very tragic news. But dothepose seems like he could use the boost in his perception of current humanity, see below
http://www.buzzfeed.com/expresident/pictures-that-will-restore-your-fait...
"What" ain't no country I ever heard of. They speak English in What?
Thanks for the link.
It's really good to see this stuff. Thank you.
Its ridiculous
how things like your post can catch me off guard. Thanks for that, mate! Much appreciated.
What a tragedy in Alabama. Things like this make one really think about how important things in this world are other than sports.
It's great to be a Michigan Wolverine
Thanks for the link...
this one may be my new favorite kitty picture that you see so often on this blog...
“Oh Yeah, what he said forgodsakes...” - -
<
Also, people like the guy who
Also, people like the guy who caught an autistic 7-year-old girl who fell out of a third story window:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/what_catch_xwblWglEiyYSVUl75...
"People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either being made."
This is why you need to carry a fire arm at all times
Open carry, especially at bars and other drinking establishments.
There's no better deterrent to shooting violence than every last one of us carrying guns.
You just never know when somebody's going come up from behind you and shoot you.
No politics. Bad dog.
No politics. Bad dog.
Politics?
"You just never know when
"You just never know when somebody's going come up from behind you and shoot you.
Because the gun in your holster will have your back?
or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
Hell yeah, honkey tonk Dudeness. . .
My holster's custom made and embroidered with PAIN.
why don't you go test that
why don't you go test that theory in detroit and see what happens?
RIP my avatar, June 14, 1998 - October 26, 2012.
Why don't you go watch some . . .
Charles Bronson movies and see what happens?
And the sarcasm . . .
went clear over this guy's head (and I'm afraid others).
I would have thought the absurdity of the original post would have been enough. Maybe the saddest thing is that it's not such an absurd post after all, at least in some people's minds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law
RIP my avatar, June 14, 1998 - October 26, 2012.
No consequence anymore
Most criminals have more rights than the officers trying to protect us.
This actually makes no sense.
This actually makes no sense. Not sure what talk radio show you heard this on but it is demonstrably false
since i have been listening to PAWWWLLLL's callers
say that legal and societal crimes are basis for suspending a football program, i will understand them today when they suggest shutting down 'bama.
oh well
i must've missed the part
where saban covered this up for 13 years.
RIP my avatar, June 14, 1998 - October 26, 2012.
Maybe the worst analogy ever
Maybe the worst analogy ever
What drives people to do
What drives people to do these kind of things? It's very simple, anti-depressants -- serotonin uptake inhibitors, or SSRI's.
If one looks into the most imfamous of these recent incidents one will find that most, if not all, these killers were on SSRI's. They start having suicidal thoughts, they stop taking their meds, then they're told to go back on them by doctors and family, then BANG, psychotic break!
Very sad state of affairs when phrama corp. profits out weight the greater good of society -- but then, that's nothing new is it?
Sing to the colors that float in the light;
Hurrah for the Yellow and Blue!
I think there could be lots
I think there could be lots of causes for violent crime.
Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th
I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm
You would think that, but
You would think that, but nope, it's anti-depressants. Which is exactly why you've seen the use of SSRIs increase 400% in the last two decades, while violent crime has decreased by roughly 51% over that same time.
That's not a proper analysis
That's not a proper analysis of the situation. What is the percentage of mass shootings/killings today as compared to yesteryear before the 400% increase of SSRI's into the population would be more appropriate.
http://www.naturalnews.com/020406.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/020643.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/758763.stm
http://www.naturalnews.com/034433_SSRI_drugs_children_murder.html
http://healthland.time.com/2011/01/07/top-ten-legal-drugs-linked-to-viol...
I am not saying anything that isn't widely known within the medical and law enforcement communities.
Sing to the colors that float in the light;
Hurrah for the Yellow and Blue!
Uhhh
You probably shouldn't try to argue correlation as causation on a board with this many engineers and statisticiancs.
An increase in mass killings? Well, how do you define a mass killing? 2? 10? 100? Greater access to firearms and explosives are a simpler, and therefor more likely correct explanation.
More killings taking place by people on anti-depressants? There's also been an increase (orders of magnitude greater, in fact) in people taking anti-depressants that do NOT kill anyone. Clearly, anti-depressants are a cause of reduced violence.
Several flaws in your
Several flaws in your argument Blaze.
Access to firearms is FAR MORE restrictive today than it was in the past. Heck, in the 1930's one could buy a FULLY AUTOMATIC Thompson Sub Machine Gun out of a mail order catalog. No background check, no waiting period save the time it took to ship.
You're trying to twist my contention, unfairly I might add. I am only reporting what is KNOWN within the medical and law enforcement communities -- when they respond to a random mass killing -- like Columbine, VT, etc. -- it is later found that the perpetrators were on SSRI's. You can sit there and play number/word games with me all you want, that doesn't make your argument correct. To say that SSRI's clearly reduce violence is saying that the majority of those on SSRI's would commit violent acts if not for their meds. That is patently false. However, it is well known that people otherwise not sucidal nor violent have shown and increase in these destructive behaviors while on SSRI's -- fer fok sake dude, it's on the god damn Rx insert!
Sing to the colors that float in the light;
Hurrah for the Yellow and Blue!
What Is Known
If you're going to report what is "known" in the medical community, then you probably should produce some sort of epidemiological work (or several) which supports your position, and not news stories and anecdotal evidence which are geared towards mass consumption and probably not full of the statistical data you would need anyway - in contrast to what you have said, you'll very much be in need of numbers.
As far as I am aware, statistically, incidences of violent behavior directly attributable to SSRI use remain a statistical rarity, with many studies showing that indeed the drugs do reduce aggression or, at worst, keep it at a level comparable to the general population in the study group. Indeed, several British studies, as I recall, report that one thing that confounds the reporting of "hostility events" in these studies is that some of the people reported for adverse reactions have other known disorders (obsessive-compulvise disorder comes up quite a bit as a driver of behavior in these cases).
There are enough cases out there of abnormal reactions, however, that it would be reasonable to assume that a very small percentage of patients might become violent. Here's one place where I think you're running into walls with your reasoning though - what about those people with no known history who turn unpredictably violent? There are far more cases of that in history than what you're talking about here.
One thing that I think you're missing is that violent behavior is multivariate, and to reduce it to "X, therefore Y" is not doing justice to the study of the behavior nor providing a reasonable explanation of it. Worse, it is almost totally useless to take an event with a low-base rate - like homicide or mass violence - and then attribute it to the use or non-use of a substance. You would likely find the correlation to be shockingly low between those variables.
"Funny isn't it, how naughty dentists always make that one fatal mistake."
Follow the random tweets of a Michigan alum - http://twitter.com/#!/LorneEC3
I'm well aware that SSRIs
I'm well aware that SSRIs have been linked to violence and psychotic breaks. But your argument is putting way too much causal burden solely on SSRI use [emphasis mine]:
What drives people to do these kind of things? It's very simple, anti-depressants -- serotonin uptake inhibitors, or SSRI's.
If one looks into the most imfamous of these recent incidents one will find that most, if not all, these killers were on SSRI's.
You're arguing (or at least heavily implying) that SSRIs are the direct cause of "most, if not all" of recent high profile violent crimes (I notice you don't specify what group includes "these killers" so I have no idea what your assumed base rate would be). If it were the case that SSRIs caused a spike in mass murders (which I've not actually seen any stats to suggest that these crimes are increasing in frequency), then at the very least there shouldn't be a strong negative correlation with SSRI use and violent crime.
Also, you're committing a massive correlation = causation fallacy. Wouldn't a more likely explanation for the connection between mass murderes who suffer psychotic breaks and SSRI use be that they are mentally ill and are therefore on psychotropic medication prior to their psychotic breaks?
Perhaps I overstated my
Perhaps I overstated my position a bit, for that I apologize.
"Wouldn't a more likely explanation for the connection between mass murderes who suffer psychotic breaks and SSRI use be that they are mentally ill and are therefore on psychotropic medication prior to their psychotic breaks?"
Not necessarily, and it depends upon what one's definition of "mentally ill." In strict DSM terms "clinical depression" is a "mental illness." However, that being said, the vast majority of "clinically depressed" people don't have a propensity for mass murder that one would characterize as layman's "mental illness." Again, check out http://www.ssristories.com/index.php
and tell me if you think that everyone of these people on the extensive and tragic list were going to be murders or commit sucide had it not been for the SSRI's.
So no, it wouldn't be more likely that the mentally ill to the point where they were as of yet unactualized mass murderers in need of a catalyst. The reports are chocked full of otherwise "normal" people who are put on SSRI's for a few "issues" (nothing psychotic) and then BECOME a completely out of character psychotic maniac.
My taboo political statement which Bronx took such exception to concerning Pharm. corp. profits is again appropriate. These drugs are dangerous, but as is evidence in microcosom in here, everyone wants to argue that they're not and disparage those that think that are.
Sing to the colors that float in the light;
Hurrah for the Yellow and Blue!
This world is just not a good place anymore. You can't even prevent random events like this occuring, this could happen anywhere at anytime. Just have to enjoy every moment you have.
You know, Dude, I myself dabbled in pacifism once. Not in 'Nam of course.