OT: please get help with addiction if you need it [sticky]
Hi everyone--I hope the mods will indulge me here, but a close family member of mine died of an apparent drug overdose last night. I'm hoping to create a least a little good from that at the moment and am posting this accordingly. Please get help if you too are struggling with drugs and/or alcohol. Things can get better. I've seen it happen. And the world is going to need you at some point even if it doesn't feel like it now.
Here is a link where you can find help in Michigan:
https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/0,5885,7-339-71550_2941_4871_29887-151431--,00.html
[Edited @5 pm -rob f:
I'm making this thread "sticky" in order to keep it up and readily available at the top of the first page when you hit the 'Go to MGoBoard' bar.
Please feel free to add appropriate links for any and all legitimate addiction treatment/counseling resources. Whether it be a member of the MGoBoard or a loved one that is in need of some support, one more readily-available source of assistance is always potentially a good thing.]
September 28th, 2021 at 12:56 PM ^
Sorry for your loss and hope you can find some peace.
September 28th, 2021 at 2:53 PM ^
Stuck this at the top because I would very much appreciate any solid help. Sorry for responding to the top post for attention. I have a friend with an addiction to heroin/fentanyl (I guess they call it "chee"?). Is there anything I can do? It is sad to watch a friend die slowly, which is the outcome I expect. Wonderful person. Just trapped. I suspect if anyone knows, it would be someone on this board. I fear no one knows what to do.
Is there a right way to say "please get into rehab?"
September 28th, 2021 at 3:26 PM ^
Many of the resources listed by OP are great places to start. They can provide you more information about what programs are available in the area your friend lives in, how they can get help, and even possibly ways you can talk to them. It's always good to consult with official sources with stuff like this.
September 28th, 2021 at 5:20 PM ^
Thanks 'Hanniballs'.
Your comment inspired me to make this thread 'sticky' on the top of page one when someone hits the 'Go to MGoBoard' bar.
September 29th, 2021 at 10:50 AM ^
Go to an Alanon meeting. They are specifically for family/friends of people in addiction. The hardest thing you can do is admit that you are powerless -- nothing you can say or do will guarantee sobriety. . .
I'm in recovery down in Florida, and in two years down here, I've seen probably around 20 people die. Opiates are no joke. And sadly, most ODs are due to someone who has clean time going back out. Their tolerance just is nowhere near what it used to be, and they take too much. . .
But going back to being a family member, its so tough. Just this morning, I drove over to check on my buddy. He's in the middle of a run where he just can't get off crack. And it's gonna kill him -- he's already hallucinating from lack of sleep, and he seized out two days ago. But he refuses to stop. . . I don't know if I'm a callous ass hole, or if I'm doing this right, but I have chosen to mentally detach myself, because there's *nothing I can do to force him to stop*. And that makes it easier.
Take this for what it's worth -- AA is not the only way to get sober, but it does work for a lot of people. And Alanon is the correlary for family members. AA and Alanon repeatedly state that for the family members, the best solution is to give it to God and *let the person find their bottom*. If they are genuinely trying to get clean, help them. But if they are in active use, or not sincere about getting clean, my experience has been that all attempts to help end up leading to more sadness -- the helper ends up angry that their help isn't taken, or depressed with the apparent hopelessness. Don't let yourself get caught up in it.
I've just seen so many cases where family inserts themselves into a user's life when the person is not ready to quit. And 9 times out of 10, it just makes the situation worse. I'm not the only source of truth here, but my experience has been that if I know someone who is addicted, and they are not ready to get sober, the best thing I can do is let them hit their bottom. And for some people, I have to accept that that may be death -- I cannot compel them to change.
September 28th, 2021 at 4:42 PM ^
Dragonchild, well said. Thank you. In the case of our adopted daughter (see below: currently in drug rehab for a heroin relapse, soon transitioning to a sober living support living situation,) it is very tricky. Our love for her is not enough . . . but it is critical and helpful. She needs mental health care, which she is getting. She needs specialized addiction care, which she is getting now. (I am very thankful that my health insurance covers most costs.) It is simply a fact that family members rarely can help/cure an addict. What we can provide is unconditional love for her. We can care for our granddaughter while she is in treatment, which gives her great peace of mind. We can provide a safety net . . . a place to live, help learning living skills, etc. What we can provide is clearly not enough. But it is a framework that allows her to get the help that is beyond us to give.
Oh, and one other thing: it's important for us to remember: It's not our fault. Don't blame yourself.
September 28th, 2021 at 4:02 PM ^
One very effective way to transition off of fentanyl and heroin is to get on an opioid replacement therapy. Methadone is the medication that best minimizes withdrawals and pain for people who are addicted to very high doses of opioids.
Here is a list of all opioid treatment programs in the country. You could contact one close to you and see if your friend would accompany you to an intake session. https://dpt2.samhsa.gov/treatment/directory.aspx
You just have to keep trying. Work with the family if you can.
September 28th, 2021 at 4:33 PM ^
Methadone is not the way to get off it does help but then you are going to go through methadone withdrawals which people say are worse then heroin. The best type now is buprenorphine because you can't really get high on it like methadone. Plus most methadone clinics you have to go to every morning and pretty much have to quit having any type of life while on treatment which will not make it easier to quit. But yes methadone was the preferred method in the 80s and 90s but now hardly anyone uses it except state or federal run programs because it is a cheap drug.
September 28th, 2021 at 4:55 PM ^
Methadone has a much higher therapeutic "ceiling" than buprenorphine, so it is often recommended for those who have very heavy opioid use. Buprenorphine works for many people and as you say it is available as an Rx without the need for daily dosing. However, most people have to cease their opioid use for at least a day or two before they can start buprenorphine. Otherwise, they go into precipitated withdrawals.
Just like any med for a chronic condition, many people take methadone or buprenorphine for years, sometimes decades. It is a maintenance medication, so withdrawals from the medication itself are honestly not an issue unless the patient himself chooses to stop taking it, in which case they can work with the program or doc to do a very slow taper.
Anyway, everyone has their own path and I am sounding like a jerky pedant now. I agree buprenorphine is a great med, too. I linked to a list of prescribers further down in the thread.
September 28th, 2021 at 4:59 PM ^
Took me two programs, but I got off painkillers and have been clean 11 years now. Any recent program should use Suboxone and Subutex. These are fantastic medications that really assist in getting off opioids. Take it from a guy that would clear 50+ Vicodin a day. The most you can do is encourage someone. Ultimately, until that person truly has a desire to be free from those demons, encouragement is all you can do. And hope.
September 28th, 2021 at 6:05 PM ^
I have never touched fentanyl nor heroin (no condemnation, I smoked plenty of illegal weed in Bursely Hall), so all my my experience is second-hand. But those I have tried to help say methadone is harder to leave than heroin/fentanyl. And fentanyl is cheap on the street. One friend got on fentanyl after a simple surgery put him on Percocet, and he we went to the illegal stuff after his prescription ran out. Thank you for the resources. I always tell everyone I will answer the phone any time they call, but I would love to do more.
September 28th, 2021 at 4:47 PM ^
There is no right way you just come out and say to that person you are worried they are going to overdose or do something they regret to get high. The saying is an addict usually had two paths to his life death or prison. There is a third but that one is not successful. But if that person is hooked on opiates you can find him a place that uses medicated withdrawal and can transition to out patient with a script for a medication to stop cravings and keep them feeling normal. Over time this medication helps the Brain heal and then they can slowly taper of the medication until they feel they don't need it anymore.
September 28th, 2021 at 8:18 PM ^
Thank you
September 28th, 2021 at 8:29 PM ^
I deal with people regularly with physical, non-lethal consequences of IV drug abuse--infections, abscesses, sometimes resulting in amputation, endocarditis, strokes. Despite these consequences, it is rarely a wake up call and most continue using.
There aren't any "magic words" unfortunately. It has to come from the person with the problem. You can love, support and don't forget self care.
September 29th, 2021 at 2:30 AM ^
I was addicted to opiates a couple different times, both from prescriptions.
It's crucial to understand that withdrawal is absolute torture. It's so much worse than can be put into words, like a combination of induced insomnia, hot and cold flashes, restlessness and lethargy with an omnipresent feeling of one's muscles being ripped from their bones. The first 48-72 hours are the hardest, then it gets easier from there.
The reason that's important is because an addict has to want to quit so bad that they'll go through that torture instead of going to their next fix. They might already want to go into rehab, but fear the unknown details of going through withdrawal and the shame of asking for help. An opiate addiction will create the pain needed to sustain itself even if there's no physiological basis for it.
One thing that I would recommend looking into if they're interested in quitting is kratom. It's not "safe" per se because it binds to the opoid receptors and can absolutely be addictive, but it's a safer alternative to pharmaceutical opioids because the risk of accidental overdose is much lower. What it can do, crucially, is lessen the symptoms of opiate withdrawal, enabling a person to take that initial step much more easily (and without the use of methodone, which is also statistically more dangerous than kratom) and then taper down dosages from there.
If you think their mental state is relatively stable besides the addiction (ie no symptoms of schizophrenia or psychosis, etc), psilocybin has mountains of anecdotal evidence in helping stop addictions. They're a big reason I don't really drink anymore. Cannabis edibles can help alleviate some of the pain from withdrawal as well.
That being said, psychedelic use and effectiveness is always dependent on intention, set, and setting. Resetting the Default Mode Network and programming it with new, healthier patterns that don't include addiction is possible, but so is a "bad trip" and potential psychological trauma from running from the challenges that psychedelics can bring up.
It's hard work, but it's possible. Good luck.
December 27th, 2022 at 2:57 PM ^
Update on the friend I mentioned above last year. She got arrested for "boosting" (I guess that's the current term for what we used to call shoplifting) to support her habit. She spent six months in jail. Just received a call, and she is about to be released and wants a place to go to live with some sort of support. I am surprised the system doesn't direct people into some safe-living alternatives.
Appreciate the above resources. Please leave this post a sticky and add updated resources to help direct those we are trying to help.
September 28th, 2021 at 12:56 PM ^
Eric - I'm so sorry for your loss. That's so sad.
September 28th, 2021 at 1:45 PM ^
Thanks--I'm not surprised and yet, as absurd as this sounds, I keep expecting him to text me.
September 28th, 2021 at 12:58 PM ^
Your thread is absolutely no problem, Erik, and your message is spot-on. Addiction is a terrible thing and there is help for those who become aware of and seek help. Thanks for including that link.
I offer my sincere condolences and sympathies to you and your family over your tragic loss.
September 29th, 2021 at 1:38 AM ^
I’m late to this thread, but I’m an addiction medicine physician, and I have nine years of sobriety from sex and love addiction. If it’s helpful, I’d be happy to write a regular series on the board about addiction if there’s interest.
After losing my license due to my addictive behavior, I’m returning to clinical practice in a couple of months. My rock bottom was a relationship with a patient in 2012, and I’m very open about my history (one has to be to remain sober). Happy to at least point folks in the right direction when needed.
I’m on FB @drjobymorrow and Twitter @JobyMorrow.
September 29th, 2021 at 10:56 AM ^
I for one, would be interested. As I suspect would be many more -- addiction touches almost everyone's lives these days.
Might want to DM a mod before posting though, or do it as a diary or in OT season.
September 29th, 2021 at 3:49 PM ^
Thanks for your reply. And yes, you’re absolutely right about making sure I get clearance for doing so.
November 14th, 2021 at 6:12 PM ^
I'm late to this thread as well after reviewing your posting history (on the heels of you hyping your book in a diary today that Seth mercifully deleted) and seeing this gem. You describe your rock bottom as a "relationship with a patient". Interesting choice of words for somebody who claims to take responsibility for his actions. Google is not your friend when you seek out attention in public forums.
September 28th, 2021 at 12:59 PM ^
Sorry for your and your family's loss. Everything you said is true!
September 28th, 2021 at 1:02 PM ^
That's awful news. I hope you and yours are able to make it through this tough time.
September 28th, 2021 at 1:04 PM ^
As someone who struggled with drug addiction as a young man I feel for you brother. Thanks for posting.
September 28th, 2021 at 1:05 PM ^
Condolences to you and your family, Erik. Your message is important now more than ever. The death rate from drug overdose has been escalating in this country.
September 28th, 2021 at 1:15 PM ^
My condolences, Erik. As a child I recall visiting my father in the alcohol rehab center. He conquered his demons (AA members will tell you you never truly conquer them) and remains one of my best friends to this day. It is heartbreaking that your family and the deceased were denied a positive ending.
Best wishes to you and yours. This is a perfect example of a worthwhile OT post and a message that should be well received. I appreciate you having the guts to post it.
September 28th, 2021 at 1:18 PM ^
Asking for help is the most courageous thing you can do
September 28th, 2021 at 1:18 PM ^
I got addicted to opioids as a result of an accident that caused a herniated L5.
I was prescribed the meds and even as time went on - the doctor KEPT prescribing them well after I probably should have been cut off. Eventually, it became a mental need and not due to actual pain.
I was able to quit on my own cold turkey, but I have lost way too many friends where that "Gateway Drug" DIRECTLY from their DOCTOR led them down a path to worse stuff...including death.
Sorry for your loss man.
September 28th, 2021 at 2:31 PM ^
There are a lot of white collar people who should be in jail for their part in the opioid epidemic. Sadly none of them are, and they never will be.
September 28th, 2021 at 3:13 PM ^
The Sackler family comes to mind
September 28th, 2021 at 1:20 PM ^
Many states have programs like NEXT that allow you to obtain Narcan. Unfortunately I don’t have additional details but worth looking into if you or a loved one has an addiction.
September 28th, 2021 at 1:21 PM ^
My condolences. I'm so sorry. I hope you get the held you need yourself, with mourning and grieving your loss.
My 20 year adopted daughter is currently in drug rehab for a relapse with heroin. Addiction is a terrible thing, and is so hard to beat. My wife and I are taking care of our 14 month old granddaughter while our daughter is in rehab. It is a blessing to have our granddaughter with us, but we're not kids anymore. The best thing my daughter ever did was to almost immediately (within a week of relapse) go into detox, rehab, and a structured environment with help to hold her accountable.
As a pastor with many community service workers, I have seen the havoc wreaked by addiction. I've seen kids taken away, I've seen jobs and homes and apartments lost, I've seen significant others dealing with the pain of incarceration. Just last month, a girl's 48 year old mom died of a heroin overdose.
Almost every addict I've known tells themself the lie, "I'm in control. I can stop anytime I want to." I can't emphasize what the OP said enough: get out of denial, and get help. There are so many people who want to help, but it starts with wanting to help yourself.
September 28th, 2021 at 1:27 PM ^
I'm a substance abuse counselor at a methadone clinic, pretty much on a daily basis while talking to clients they tell me they either lost someone close to overdose or had a close call. Every couple months I have a client pass away from overdose. It's so common anymore unfortunately that you barely even hear about it. Sorry for your loss and I encourage everyone who can get narcan to keep some close by just in case.
September 28th, 2021 at 2:37 PM ^
Thank you for doing what you do. I can't imagine how hard that job is, but hopefully it is also rewarding in a small way when you help folks find their path.
September 28th, 2021 at 1:29 PM ^
So sorry for your loss. ? There is help for everyone regarding addiction of any type. Be an unassuming hero today encouraging someone to take those first hard steps. God be with everyone who does
September 28th, 2021 at 1:36 PM ^
I am really sorry for your loss, Erik. Take care.
September 28th, 2021 at 1:37 PM ^
I am so deeply saddened for your loss. I hope other people here who are struggling with similar crises in their circle will find peace and light. I haven't had the same depth of experience myself but I know from secondhand experience it's not always as simple as wanting hard enough to be clean. Sometimes, someone has to hit rock bottom before they can climb back up and you just hope that bottom isn't too low.
September 28th, 2021 at 1:40 PM ^
I’m very sorry for your loss. I lost my mother to addiction. She was a very successful woman. It can happen to anybody.
Please seek help, know you’re important, know you aren’t alone, and even though it may not feel like it at the moment your life will absolutely get better!
September 28th, 2021 at 1:41 PM ^
Sorry for your loss, man. Your family will be in my prayers
September 28th, 2021 at 1:49 PM ^
Condolences to you and the family. Praying for you all
September 28th, 2021 at 1:57 PM ^
So sorry for your loss. That it was avoidable makes it all the more tragic.
September 28th, 2021 at 2:06 PM ^
Erik, so sorry for your loss. As someone who lived in Dayton for 10 years (near WPAFB), I wanted to share the resource for Ohio as well:
It’s never too late to ask for help
September 28th, 2021 at 2:15 PM ^
Add gambling to this list - i have more acquaintances with gambling problems than alcohol/drug problems.
September 28th, 2021 at 2:16 PM ^
Condolences, Erik. Today is two weeks since a dear friend of mine passed away. His family is keeping the specific circumstances very quiet, but the tea leaves say it was suicide. I think it was shocking enough to hear of his passing and they didn't want to add anything on top of it... a seemingly familiar story of someone who on the outside looking in had a great life, but the reality was much darker.
I only wish they would share more, as I truly believe he would want his story to be a lesson for people to keep an eye out for signs in other folks. Sad all around regardless.
September 28th, 2021 at 2:19 PM ^
I just celebrated 3 weeks clean and sober on Saturday after years of alcoholism and painkillers. I know to take it one day at a time. It sounds cliche, but it's absolutely true. It just took me being honest with myself and a desire to stop hurting people I love.
September 28th, 2021 at 2:21 PM ^
You got this buddy! Happy for you.
September 28th, 2021 at 2:38 PM ^
Congratulations on your recovery. Hang in there!