talk to caris yo
OT- Phil Coke Blows...
I see what you did there....
Has neglected getting bullpen help for years. Enough of throwing Coke, Krol, Hardy or whoever the fuck we have. Trade some prospects now. We aren't getting any younger as a team.
Knowing that Joba and Nathan were unavailable to pitch, I wish Ausmus had left Porcello in and not pinch hit Rajai. Hindsight is 20/20, but Ricky P was pitching well and had a pitch count that would have likely made him able to go 9.
It would be one thing if you were going to bring in a reliable pitcher after.
Davis is a .300 batter which means he had a 7 out of 10 chance of not being successful while Coke gives you a 98% chance of being unsuccessful.
I can't blame Ausmus when they had the potential to break it open. Unfortunately I have confidence that Coke can undo anything good that could happen very quickly.
Great move to force Ausmus' hand, hell Porcello could have stood there and watched strike 3 as well as the pinch hitter did. Hindsite 20/20 I guess. I told my lady we would lose when Coke came into the game, hell the only reason he got the out he did is because the line drive hit him.
Nathan is still worse this year
Yes. But at least Nathan was serviceable at one point.
To be fair, of course, while neither Coke nor Nathan have put together a string of superb performances this season (let's put it that way), Nathan still outperforms Coke on a few rather telling metrics such as K/BB ratio, batting average against and Nathan even sports a slightly lower WHIP than Coke as well. That being said, when the WHIP of your closer is 1.53, you have some interesting issues in the bullpen, to say the least.
Smyly should be in the pen. I still don't understand that Fister trade.
I'm still baffled on that one as well. The only thing that makes sense to me is it was a salary dump because they felt pretty strongly that they would be able to resign Max. If it wasn't related to Max then I don't really know how it helped the team.
He was only arbitration eligible. So he wasn't free per se, but he was only going to make what he was going to get in arbitration. This year he's making $7.2M
Not too shabby for a guy who is 9-2 with a 2.92 ERA and a 1.128 WHIP.
It was absolutely related to Max, as well as to other players. Martinez and Hunter are FA after this year (although I think it's assumed Hunter won't be back), and I think Jackson is a FA after '15. So a lot of money was going to be needed for Max and others, and it had to come from somewhere. With Smyly ready to move into the rotation (which has had its ups and downs) and Porcello ready to move up into Fister's spot (which has worked out terrifically), Fister was the logical candidate to move. I didn't mind the trade of Fister so much as I minded what they got for him: a not-yet-ready, middle-of-the-rotation starter, a lefty reliever who's had his own problems, and a utility IF/OF who wasn't here long enough to get his seat on the bench warm. Not one of Dave D's finer deals.
Yup, that's the hard part, that they didn't get anyone who could help them this season, which is what they should driving at. Because like you mentioned after this season some contracts will be up and this team will probably be losing some valuable pieces.
there is almost no way Scherzer will be a Tiger next year--and there wasn't a realistic chance when the season started. Besides Max turned down the Tigers offer over the Winter, refuses to negotiate during the season, expects to max out his contract, is represented by Boras and has no real ties to the community--and the Tigers have enormous amounts already allocated to Verlander and Scherzer.
It would be nice to have Fister back.
extend Cabrera which they did do. At the time I hoped they would also be able to get Scherzer signed. I doubt it now. I think they will hope that Porcello and Smyly will keep making strides and either look for a cheap number 5 starter or hope Jake Thompson is ready.
I don't see them trading Scherzer because the only teams interested will be competing with them in the post season. I think they will take the draft pick and hope to select another pitcher. I wish others would look at Verlander and see that paying Scherzer that type of money is very high risk but there are always foolish teams out there.
Those types just don't grow on trees. And he hasn't pitched that bad lately. I'm not defending Coke but it's not difficult to understand why he's still around.
Tiger's will make playoffs and a hard throwing lefty would be handy to have in the bullpen.
defending Coke because I think he needs to go but those were the first ERs he's given up in over a month. In that time he made 12 appearances with no ER all while giving up 12 hits and 4 walks. So as hard as it is to admit, he kind of deserved a chance last night.
he has been arguably hr best reliever as of late. even better than joba the last month. he could end the season with an ERA below 4 which would be amazing seeing how he started
At least make the opposition get a hit or make a play to beat you, consecutive late inning walks are inexcusable for a major league (cough) pitcher.
Coke started it. Then Alburquerque and Kroll, who both suck as well, came in and were terrible. How does Kroll throw a meatball in an 0-2 count there? The Tigers need more than 1 reliever. They need 2. Soria, Bastardo, Benoit, etc. are all fine candidates. Dombrowski needs to go out and get 2 of them immediately.
and Phil Coke got credit for a Hold whilst simultaneously taking the loss. . .How does that happen? (per yahoo sports)
Coke qualified for the hold because:
1. He entered the game in what was a save situation.
2. He recorded at least one out.
3. His team did not relinquish the lead while he was pitching.
So never mind that he STARTED the fire, he gets the hold because he wasn't around when the fire eventually consumed the Tigers' lead.
statistics that blow up in the statisticians face. . . unbelievable.
He "earned" the hold because a ball hit like a rocket bounced off him to the third baseman...a gift stat for sure.
(didn't see the game live) hey, Coke gets an assist on that too!
He's padding his stats ("assists", "holds") in all kinds of illegitimate ways!
have the 3rd best record in baseball.
For the record, the tone of your first five sentences made it obvious you are an Indians fan.
So when Joe Nathan was 38 and rocking a FIP of 2.26 and held a 10.16K/9 was he still old? Yes I personally thought Nathan would be good this year and start to fall off next season.
I would counter by saying did you guys think signing an overpaid buckeye like Swisher would work? Or the overpriced CF that doesn't steal bases any longer?
But I wouldn't even mind the playoffs consisting of a: Max, Porcello, Anibal, Smyly starting rotation. Keep Verlander available for the 7th, 8th, and 9th and pray that he can't do any worse than Nathan or Coke.
The Oakland A's would love if this were to happen. I find it amusing that you would move Verlander to the bullpen.
Justin Verlander is 2nd pitcher in MLB history with 10+ K, 0 R allowed in back-to-back postseason games. Other: Sandy Koufax, 1965 WS G5+7 (2013 Series against the A's)
The last 31 postseason innings vs. the A's for Verlander are: One earned run, 43 strikeouts.
that is not the same JV of today though
So you're saying putting sandy in the rotation would be better than max, porcello, smyly and anibal.
Okay, Crazy. First, that would be a bold move to flip the "ace" of your staff to the pen (I say ace because whatever the stats, the Tigers have a long-term, huge contract with JV). More importantly, JV is typically a very slow starter and takes a while to find his groove. That's not exactly what you want in the pen.
But being [not] bold hasn't worked. That's obvious, and this is not the Verlander from 2006. He has an ERA of 4.85 (which is by far the worst of all Detroit Starters.)
Judging by statistics, I'd say a rotation of Scherzer, Porcello, and Sanchez would put more fear than a rotation of Scherzer, Verlander, Porcello. I mean Verlander's ERA could be above 5 by the time October rolls around.
Verlander is still recovering from major core surgery so he could still be bad by october or have turned it around by then.
Giants did that with lincecum and he was amazing out of the pen in 2012 in the playoffs. They won the World Series. Verlander could be used as a two inning specialist. Teams feast on him the second and third time through. That doesn't happen if he is coming out of the pen and he can pitch 3 times in the series. I think it could be something ausmus could do if Verlander doesn't return to form.
There is actually more value in a guy that can give you three 2-3 shutdown innings out of the pen late in the game. This won't happen because Smyly will be moved to the pen for the playoffs.
The Tigers are in a pinch now in regards to relief pitching, that is for sure and becoming very obvious the more the season goes on.
-Their 20ish million dollar gamble on Nathan seems to be a bust.
-Rondon’s loss for the season has been a big blow.
-Alburquerque is wildly inconsistent.
-Krol is just a pitcher.
-Coke, well everyone knows the struggles Coke has had.
-Thank god for Chamberlin.
They have tried or are trying just about every minor league arm they have to find some reliability. Their hopes now rely on these minor leaguers, a good trade or another arm coming back from surgery (Hanharan). They can’t win with the current relief staff. In the playoffs they can go to a 4 man starting rotation. Smyly can be back in a relief position at that point, but they still will need more/better help than him.
re-examination later this week. He's looking very doubtful to play this year for Detroit.
Bummer. Even more pressure now on Dave D. to find a good trade deal.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
No it isn't.
Actually, Coke has been pitching reasonably well lately. He had a 2.92 ERA in June, and last night's runs were the first he's given up in his last ten outings.
are you saying this is just a big over reaction from emotional fans?
Color me surprised.
has reverted back to old habits.
July 5 1.1 innings 2 hits
July 10 1.0 innings 0 hits
July 13 1.1 innings 3 hits, 1 walk
July 18 1.0 innings 1 hit. 2 walks
July 19 1.0 innings 2 hits
July 22 0.1 innings 2 walks
He's been far from shut down pitcher in July. That's a WHIP of 2.17
His July ERA is 3.00. That's not terrible by any means.
pitcher is pitching than ERA. You want relief pitchers to stop fires, not create or pour gasoline on them.
Fair enough. I'm not saying the guy is Dennis Eckersly, but there's really no reason to single him out given the state of the entire bullpen.
Ian Krol has been much worse than Coke as of recent, ie throwing a flat meatball instead of something in the dirt up 0-2 in the count.