OT: Michigan Executive Orders declared unconstitutional
Late last week, the Michigan Supreme Court declared that the Governor did not possess the authority to exercise emergency powers under the EPGA (1945 law) because the act unlawfully delegates legislative power to the executive branch in violation of the Michigan Constitution. Whitmer has said the EOs are in effect for 21 more days (referencing a rehearing rule that postpones issuance of the judgment order for 21 days), but that's probably not an accurate take given that the opinion has been filed and there's no way to enforce the EOs.
Curious to know if anyone's company is going to change the way they operate now? Anyone going to do anything differently? Company I work for is going to keep the status quo for the time being.
October 5th, 2020 at 10:47 AM ^
I'm going to watch this thread burn.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:19 AM ^
Actually, things seem to be ok here...what a pleasant surprise. But after the entire White House staff spent the last weekend in September coughing into each others' mounts, there isn't much of a debate about masks anymore.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:49 AM ^
I think the numbers are slowly ramping up in Michigan. We had been below 1,000 daily cases for quite some time and now I'm seeing daily numbers above that. U of Michigan's numbers jumped up on the dashboard that is used when external testing of students/faculty started being included in the data.
Can't the various county health departments implement orders that are independent of the legislature and the gov that have the same effect as Whitmer's orders?
October 5th, 2020 at 12:15 PM ^
By County or City can work if needed. In AZ for some (political) reason the Governor had even the mask orders be done this way rather than issuing something statewide.
October 5th, 2020 at 1:09 PM ^
This is the way it should work in my opinion. South Dakota should handle things much differently than say, California, Due to population densities, etc. Wayne County is different than Charlevoix County, etc. Local governments ought to be more empowered than distant governments.
October 5th, 2020 at 1:18 PM ^
How are people to know that the rules are for every county? How many counties are there in Michigan? This is the approach that Wisconsin took (also due to a court ruling and the refusal of the legislature to even meet) and we are now the global epicenter of the pandemic. This is not good news for public health in Michigan.
October 5th, 2020 at 2:35 PM ^
County/municipal rulings would be much better than a comprehensive, statewide policy if only the virus could be taught to observe jurisdictional boundaries....
October 5th, 2020 at 4:21 PM ^
In Chester County, Pennsylvania, the mayors of various towns are making their own penalties (or not) for lack of mask-wearing. (Yes, there is a state-wide mask decree by Gov. Wolf; but even individual towns are varying enforcement.)
Yes, it certainly can be more confusing & have the possibility to catch folks off-guard; but ultimately I think I'm OK with this; with more power at the local levels... and most municipalities/counties that I've heard of are specifying with each change in the orders that offenders will be warned for first violation before being fined.
Even though I'm ultimately not as convinced that masks are as effective on a macro level as many are; I've been wearing one when in public places (like all stores, etc.) or even partially public places (like church services) where I'm not absolutely sure that everyone in my company is comfortable without one... same applies to private events, too.
It seems to have been a very workable approach even for someone like me who personally really doesn't like mask-wearing.
October 5th, 2020 at 5:21 PM ^
Chester, PA.
October 5th, 2020 at 1:14 PM ^
Been working like that since the beginning in Tennessee. I live in a county that has never had a mask mandate, and did work/wife works in one that has had one at times based on the spread rate.
October 5th, 2020 at 3:17 PM ^
In Arizona, where the floor has fallen out under the virus numbers, there seems to be a lot of political payback going on in keeping certain things (bars, gyms, nail salons) closed down, all while acquiescing to the teachers unions demands to keep the schools closed (oh excuse me distance learning). Back in early July they said schools could open if there were three weeks in a row where new infection rates were below 7%. We haven't had a rate over 6% percent since late August and they are just now thinking about "blended" schooling. Another factor that the rules is rules approach that will be eventually unmasked as gross stupidity is in the hospitals. My wife was hospitalized with a gastric pain condition, that they treated with mucho pain killers, but then didn't addresss her condition correctly. WIth the "no visitors" rule, I was unable to go in and advocate for her resulting in what should have been a 2-3 day stay lasting 10, and not really addressing the real issue until the end. I have a strong sense that there are going to be a great number of medical complicaitons from exactly this behavior.
Lets look at the numbers. UofA is part of a consortium of Universities lettings students back on campus, under strict testing regimens. This group has identified a 7% positive test rate (about 48K), which have resulted in a total of 2 hospitalizations and 0 deaths. According to the data on Worldometer Arizona has this weird 5 day pulsing function on deaths. Meanwhile as they occur there have been about 5 deaths a day for the last three weeks, so why dooes the graph show sequences like 0, 20, 22, 23, 12 for a week. A little research shows new deaths like 0,5,2,3,5 for that week but revised numbers from late data analysis adding deaths from a couple months earlier being added to the day that the research was identified.
All I can say is the number are being played with on both sides of the argurment, but in general the numbers are dropping around the contry
October 5th, 2020 at 3:32 PM ^
As a Wisconsin resident, I can assure you that our covid numbers are not dropping.
/Checks national numbers
New cases up 6% based on 14-day rolling average. That doesn't quite fit with your premise that numbers are dropping around the country.
October 5th, 2020 at 3:38 PM ^
The numbers are actually going up over the last 14 days both nationally and in more than 30 states.
October 5th, 2020 at 5:17 PM ^
Not sure what is making MI's numbers go up. Certainly a lot of people won't wear masks and do stupid stuff. Part of the problem is that we were on the edge all summer, most people did not realized we were on the edge of a bigger outbreak the whole time, and got complacent. Then school and colleges started up, and it doesn't take much to start increasing when you are on the edge. UP is struggling with Wisconsin overspill, but that isn't enough to drive state numbers as much as they have moved.
October 5th, 2020 at 7:53 PM ^
Shocking. The Prez is on his way out of the hospital and feeling fine. Virus is nothing for those not of a certain age group with underlying illnesses. But hey let’s shut down the world again. At least until the election is over.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:01 PM ^
"The prez" is not fine.
October 6th, 2020 at 8:03 AM ^
It's sad that you actually believe a single word that comes out of that man's mouth. But by all means keep gobbling up those lies.
October 5th, 2020 at 10:48 AM ^
I am sure this will go well.
October 5th, 2020 at 10:51 AM ^
My company isn't changing the way we do things. We're fully remote until, at minimum, July 2021, and then likely transitioning to a hybrid model. Nobody that I know is actually going to change their day to day based on the court's ruling. Everyone I know is still social distancing and being as cautious as possible. Feels insane not to, unless you need to for work.
October 5th, 2020 at 10:55 AM ^
My guess is that most large business will be status quo, most small businesses will have no idea that the EOs are gone, and a few small businesses that are getting desperate will open up.
I find the whole question interesting from a legal perspective. From a personal perspective, the small glimmer of positive from this awful ordeal is the move to remote working. I may try to spend a winter month or two working remote in a warm area once things get back to normal.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:20 AM ^
You can go to Bermuda for up to a year: https://www.insider.com/live-and-work-remotely-in-bermuda-residency-certificate-2020-7
The Bermuda government is offering year-long residencies for people interested in working or studying remotely from the island.
In order to qualify, visitors must be older than 18 years old, have health insurance, and supply proof of employment or enrollment in higher education, according to the government's website.
October 5th, 2020 at 12:46 PM ^
Registered agent hours in such locations range from 11:00 a.m. to 3 p.m. with a healthy lunch break from noon to 2:00 p.m. Average income, $2.5m per year.
October 5th, 2020 at 2:40 PM ^
Pray tell how does one acquire such a position
October 5th, 2020 at 3:34 PM ^
No clue. Been trying to figure it out for years. I think you have to walk that fine line of having significant dirt on people while also being of enormous value to them.
October 5th, 2020 at 12:31 PM ^
Yeah, I'd be shocked if companies changed their processes because of a court decision because the reality is that the virus is still spreading and people are still dying, and most companies aren't dying to spend the money and time it would take to get offices in compliance with the expected sanitation quality for in-office work.
October 5th, 2020 at 10:53 AM ^
I'm gonna start wearing my mask as a fart catcher on my butt
October 5th, 2020 at 10:57 AM ^
You could fashion yourself a trebuchet with the mask and with your arsenal of weaponized methane, sling your farts toward your enemies at an impressive distance. Modern chemical warfare but with a vintage medieval vibe would be very trendy.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:02 AM ^
Stewie avatar checks out
October 5th, 2020 at 11:08 AM ^
Just slingng farts? That's amateur.
October 5th, 2020 at 2:23 PM ^
At least you are following the science because there is covid in fart splatter
October 5th, 2020 at 10:54 AM ^
Lots of EOs are being found unconstitutional, its the new normal. :)
October 5th, 2020 at 10:54 AM ^
TOUCHDOWN MEEEECHIGAN!!!!
October 5th, 2020 at 10:55 AM ^
My company is following CDC guidelines. Not sure what/if anything will change assuming all of this phasing created by the Governor is no longer in effect.
October 5th, 2020 at 10:55 AM ^
This will end well.
October 5th, 2020 at 10:56 AM ^
(Looks at Wisconsin) yeah this will end well
October 5th, 2020 at 10:57 AM ^
Vova get the snacks
October 5th, 2020 at 10:58 AM ^
It states pretty clear what the issue was. She operated outside of her powers because the legislature only extended the state of emergency through April 30. Anything after April 30 was done without legislative authority. Also, there are powers unlawfully abdicated to the executive branch that should be the legislature’s responsibility under Michigan law.
That’s how it initially reads to me anyway.
October 5th, 2020 at 5:49 PM ^
Yes, it sounds like the court decision resulted from reading the state constitution. But legislative abdication is a big problem nationwide.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:03 AM ^
Michigan's AG, Dana Nessel, has already said that her office will not enforce the EOs going forward. However, I suspect most businesses are going to maintain their mask, capacity, and other policies as is.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:04 AM ^
I went to the store without a mask over the weekend and got a lot of people staring at me like I was a criminal.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:06 AM ^
And that is a surprise to you?
8.5.0October 5th, 2020 at 11:12 AM ^
When you carelessly and needlessly put others at risk, that will usually be the case.
October 5th, 2020 at 11:19 AM ^
No. They were looking at you like you're an asshole.
October 5th, 2020 at 12:10 PM ^
This comment will never hit the number of upvotes it deserves. Well done...
October 5th, 2020 at 12:44 PM ^
How does one look when they stare directly at an anus?
October 5th, 2020 at 1:14 PM ^
Logged in just to upvote
October 5th, 2020 at 11:20 AM ^
Good?
