NittanyFan

July 17th, 2014 at 4:17 PM ^

One downvote for you for going off on an unrelated tangent.

 

(1) I think Freeh covered up TWA 800's true cause (why was PETN found in the wreckage?).  

 

(2) I do not believe Freeh was involved in any cover-up re: Penn State.

 

Those 2 events have nothing to do with each other.

CLord

July 17th, 2014 at 5:29 PM ^

2014?  Every new human brought into this world has a brain comprised entirely of moldable  ignorance and nothing else.   Doubt that will change any time soon.  Toss  in need, limited resources and egocentrism and our species is a collective mess with no end in sight.

Hopefully a thousand years from now, if man makes it that far without either destroying the planet or itself, people  will look back at just how pathetically primitive man was around the 21st century in mitigating the fallacies of human nature.  All of these nuclear weapons and incredible  scientific and technological breakthroughs,  but  not the  first concept about how to  grapple with the egocentrism and ignorance behind all evil and ruin.

Eff Penn State,  eff Ohio and then eff humans in that order.

GoWings2008

July 17th, 2014 at 2:46 PM ^

I'm trying to read between the lines, and keeping this unclassified, its interesting to read that rebels may have shot down this airplane while it was at 33,000 feet.  Things afforded to that type of group typically don't have that sort of capability.  I'll be interested to hear more as they get details in a few days.

LSAClassOf2000

July 17th, 2014 at 3:00 PM ^

As a general note for the thread, the Telegraph is updating its coverage and what is known / confirmed here - LINK

According to reports coming from the area where this happened, local residents apparently reported two loud bangs before the crash. Further, there has already been an effort to divert flights around this area and, according to the Telegrph, there is some confusion on whether or not this was an unsecured area for aviation given the conflict on the ground.

Regarding what has been said above, I wondered about this - it seems like the typical "out-there" group in the world would not have this sort of sophistication to shoot down a commercial aircraft (having a trasponder signal which would identify it as such, of course) at cruising altitude. I could be wrong here, of course.

FreddieMercuryHayes

July 17th, 2014 at 3:10 PM ^

I really don't know a lot about the region's various military type factions or weapon systems, but considering the area, is it possible there could be some older Soviet era weapons that rebels could get there hands on? 33,000 feet is well beyond the typical ground launchers, but for a sitting duck like an unsuspecting jumbo jet, I imagine one would not need the most advanced of surface to air missile platforms either.

reshp1

July 17th, 2014 at 5:08 PM ^

There have been half a dozen Ukrainian military planes shot down over the last weeks. While it's possible it was all done with the same captured battery, it's more likely this is a more concerted effort to arm rebels by Russia. Also, there's the matter of where they learned to operate the weapons. It's not like these are RPGs, they're state of the art radar equipped AA stations, I doubt your average angry local separatist can just figure out how to operate these without some training.

GoBLUinTX

July 17th, 2014 at 6:36 PM ^

of Russian, and Ukranian, men were one time conscripts.  It is well within the relm of possibilities that many of the seperatists have formal military training, some of whom no doubt have training on the SA-11 system.  A system that has been in the Russian/Soviet arsenal since the 1970s.

alum96

July 17th, 2014 at 5:52 PM ^

As technology advances it gets cheaper.  I am not any weapons expert but there were people on the ground with quite powerful anti aircraft "stuff" they could carry around on their shoulder even 10 years ago.  So I can only imagine it is getting cheaper, and more powerful every 5 years.  It makes one worry what is going to be around in 20 years.

All that said I wouldn't think anything out there that a "rebel" could haul around would be so easy to get at, at 33K feet. 

Evil Empire

July 17th, 2014 at 2:55 PM ^

In fact, I did predict that when I heard about it earlier this afternoon.  Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with people?  I know the US shot down an Iranian passenger plane in the Gulf back in the 80s, but at least the combatants or would-be combatants in that region were using planes for something.  Is there any element of air war in the Ukraine fight, especially as large as an airliner that travels at that altitude?

translator82

July 17th, 2014 at 2:57 PM ^

Although I was in diapers, this has shades of 1983 with the Korean Air disaster where the Soviets shot down the airliner after it strayed into Russian air space, killing everyone on board.

That all said, my only comment for this disaster can be summed up by Admiral Josh Painter from The Hunt for Red October.

translator82

July 17th, 2014 at 4:49 PM ^

Usually I don't believe in coincidences, but this for this purpose it is...especially since I didn't make the connection that Bo indeed looks like Clancy here. I love those photos of Bo wearing those sunglasses in the 80s. Heck, I wish I owned a pair.

maize-blue

July 17th, 2014 at 3:37 PM ^

The mudslinging should get pretty furious between Russia and Ukraine with this one. Preliminary reports also stating 23 Americans on board. (EDIT: Perhaps still being confirmed)

creelymonk10

July 17th, 2014 at 3:06 PM ^

Russian rebel posted this on Facebook, don't know how legit it is...

Translation: "

"AN-26 airplane was shot down near Torez, it fell somewhere behind the mine "Progress".

We warned - do not fly in "our sky".

And here is the video proof of another "bird-fall" (bird = slang for an airplane).

Another bird fell behind the spoil tip, residential areas were not affected.

No civilians were harmed."

Sopwith

July 17th, 2014 at 3:23 PM ^

because the real world is 100% appalling to me.  I can't wrap my mind around deliberately murdering civilians (and don't want to) so I'd rather spend my days stressing about things like 27-for-27 and pretend that's the worst thing ever.  

Head, meet sand.  Sand, meet head.  Jeebus.

MGoGrendel

July 17th, 2014 at 4:13 PM ^

my wife sent me this text: "Let's do Chinese for dinner...in the news right now: Malaysia jet shot down over Ukraine and Israel had just begun ground and sea offensive in Gaza. Dow is back below 17,000".

We all need distractions. Tonight, ours will be beef and broccoli with spring rolls.

TheLastHarbaugh

July 17th, 2014 at 3:41 PM ^

From what I gather, it sounds like it might be a case of mistaken identites. There has been a lot of warfare going on in that area. Various groups attempting to shoot down cargo planes filled with supplies. Looks like the pilot chose to fly through that airspace even through commercial airplanes are advised not to, and was shot down by someone who thought it was a hostile aircraft.

Mistakes all around coalescing into a tragedy.

GoBlueInIowa

July 17th, 2014 at 5:44 PM ^

Actually, here is where I get a lot of my major breaking news. (Probably because I just happen to be on here so much)



The discussions are always pretty good as long as it does not go into the blame X politician or religion. Actually the rules against that allows for some good points and conversations.