OT: Joe Dumars worst move as Pistons GM? Darko or J. Smith
Sorry to go off topic, but I had this bar stool argument last night
Joe D's worst GM move
Drafting Darko or Signing Josh Smith
Pistons are 12-3 since they dumped Josh Smith, the guy was just not right for the team in any way. He jacked so many bad 3's last year (a historic rate). Josh Smith had a strong track history of being mediocre and a bad shooter.
Darko was widely considered to be the #2 guy. The conventional wisdom in the NBA is to take the Big Guy if 2 guys are about equal. Darko didn't have any screaming red flags around him. I know it turned out to be a terrible move, but at the time it seemed at least defendable.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:18 PM ^
We could have had Carmelo Anthony instead of Darko. Let that sink in for a moment.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:24 PM ^
Melo kind of sucks as an all around player.
We could have had Wade. In his prime Wade was a very great all around player.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:40 PM ^
Not a fair argument as absolutely no one was arguing for wade/bosh at the time over darko. The choice was darko or carmelo.
January 23rd, 2015 at 2:13 PM ^
Carmelo (just won the NC on his back) vs a hs kid who barely played. Perenielly all star, who took a Denver team and made them competitive. Darko contributed nothing, was paid handsomely and left a huge talent gap for an aging team in need.
I am going with Darko as one of the worst moves in league history.
January 23rd, 2015 at 3:58 PM ^
It was definitely a Darko/Carmelo debate. Everyone agreed that the top three picks would be LeBron and then the other two.
Darko was never paid all that much (relatively speaking) - he was only under his rookie contract in Detroit. Carmelo OTOH has been a max-salary guy forever, and yet he's not really a franchise player. He would be better as a secondary option to a LeBron type, but I don't know if his ego can take that.
January 24th, 2015 at 10:15 AM ^
To nitpick, I think Darko got a pretty big contract from Minnesota after he played hard for like half a season. He put up a lot of blocks and even made his way onto some fantasy teams.
Edit: Upon further investigation, it was 4 years 20 million. Not all that much more than his rookie contract, but a hefty sum for us working stiffs.
January 23rd, 2015 at 2:21 PM ^
Sorry guys. I blew it.
January 23rd, 2015 at 2:15 PM ^
The Pistons went on to great success with Darko sitting onthe bench, so hardly a career -wrecker of a move by Joe D. Would they have beaten the Spurs in '05 with Melo? Or if they could've had a better crystal ball and taken Wade or Bosh ahead of where they were predicted? Perhaps...
They were a crap team when they got JSmith, so who cared then? Or Charlie V or Ben Gordon, etc. Joe D has been flailing since the great moves that brought Rip, Chauncey, Big Ben,, etc. FLAILING...
January 23rd, 2015 at 3:50 PM ^
It's also possible that the Pistons, with Carmelo, never end up trading for Sheed - or if they do, he and Carmelo squabble and the team implodes.
People tend to assume that how the Pistons did from 2004-08 was their baseline and that they could only improve from there. A lot of talented teams don't achieve as much as that group did.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:27 PM ^
Or Bosh or Wade. Hell, even Kaman, David West, Kirk Henrich, Nick Collison, or Boris Diaw would have sufficed. Darko was one of the worst picks in draft history.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:30 PM ^
Carmelo is obviously far more talented than Darko. But Carmelo is also a prima donna ball-hog whose overall contribution does not justify his huge salary. The real prize was Wade.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:46 PM ^
That's why the knicks are a wasteland and no one wants to play there.
January 23rd, 2015 at 2:00 PM ^
I'm pretty sure the Knicks are a wasteland that nobody wants to play for because Dolan.
January 23rd, 2015 at 2:14 PM ^
i was screaming for carmelo. he was the surest thing in that draft; even more than lebron, imo. although, lebron obviously had more upside. i thought they were 1 and 1A; couldn't go wrong with either guy.
funny thing is, dumars tried to trade for carmelo a few times not long after that draft.
January 23rd, 2015 at 3:48 PM ^
Carmelo could have been toxic for team chemistry. I don't think it's a coincidence his teams have never amounted to anything in 11+ years in the league.
January 23rd, 2015 at 2:31 PM ^
The thing is the debate of the draft at the time was LBJ and Darko. Not Melo and Darko. Many people forget that some thought Darko would be a #1 overall pick. The tier went like this:
Tier 1:
LBJ
Darko
Tier 2:
Melo
Wade
Bosh
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January 23rd, 2015 at 3:06 PM ^
Tier 1 - LBJ
Tier 2 - Carmelo
Teir 3 - Everyone else
Darko is the worst NBA draft pick in history. Sure, Carmelo is not a good defensive player, but the Pistons needed a scorer and had tons of defensive talent. I firmly believe that they would have won multiple championships if they would have picked Melo. It was such an obvious choice to everyone except Joe D. No way to put it except that it was a complete disaster.
January 23rd, 2015 at 3:49 PM ^
It's always has been LBJ and Darko at top 2 picks.
January 23rd, 2015 at 5:09 PM ^
But I remember clearly that the only name discussed in Cleveland other than LeBron was Anthony, and whether we were too enamored of LBJ because he was local, while Anthony had shown what he could do winning the NCAA. Darko's name was barely mentioned. Surprisingly for a Cleveland franchise, the team picked the right guy.
January 23rd, 2015 at 4:58 PM ^
Pretty sure Len Bias was a worse pick than Darko. Sam Bowie has a good case, too.
January 23rd, 2015 at 10:45 PM ^
Len Bias was a great pick who died.
January 23rd, 2015 at 6:14 PM ^
That one still blows my mind. If the Pistons had acquired Anthony, would they have acquired 'Sheed? The Pistons would have had Anthony, Okur and Williamson at power forward. Man, the ball-hogging and porous D would have been something.
January 23rd, 2015 at 7:47 PM ^
neither is a human vicotry cigar
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:19 PM ^
Darko was a fair gamble that didn't pay off. The Smith mistake was obvious from its inception.
January 23rd, 2015 at 2:15 PM ^
at least he was a former all star that didn't work out. granted many knew it was a bad fit from the get go.
January 23rd, 2015 at 10:15 PM ^
has never been an All Star.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:19 PM ^
J Smith. Most people thought Darko was good at the time of the draft. Time proved otherwise, but most people I know thought Smith was incredibly stupid at the time. I've heard of drafting for talent over need, but I've never seen that logic extend to big free agent acquisitions.
January 23rd, 2015 at 3:12 PM ^
nailed it.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:19 PM ^
I think it's Darko by a long shot bc u can't take a young raw player like that coming to a new country and never play him. Didn't he average like 2mins a game? I do believe that the pistons broke his confidence. Doesn't help that the next 3 picks may all be HOFers.
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January 23rd, 2015 at 1:26 PM ^
I would have even taken Chris Kaman, David West, Josh Howard, or Mo Williams over Darko.
2003 has to be the all time best class to enter the draft and we ended up with the biggest bust. We took a big risk that was either going to end how it did, or have a franchise player for the next decade.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:50 PM ^
Yeah and I can see taking the risk but when u do that u have to give the player time to play and let them learn from mistakes. The Pistons didn't. If that was the plan I think u have to take the more NBA ready guys which would be any of those other guys
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January 23rd, 2015 at 4:10 PM ^
I would have even taken Chris Kaman, David West, Josh Howard, or Mo Williams over Darko.
Easy to say that in hindsight. At the time, everyone agreed that Darko would go either #2 or #3.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:20 PM ^
People give Joe D a lot of shit about Darko, but Darko was VERY HIGH on many draft boards. Now, granted, there were many many other great prospects (Wade, Melo, Bosh to name a few). But it's not like he drafted some guy who was projected to be a journeyman in the D-League.
Dumars biggest flop was the contracts he gave veterans like Ben Gordon and Charlie V that handcuffed the team. So I think you could lump Smith into this category.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:26 PM ^
Charlie V was a 5yr 35. only 7 per year. So smith is 2x as expensive, plus Charlie V was at least a halfway decent spot up shooter
January 23rd, 2015 at 2:14 PM ^
Yeah, I guess that's probably not fair to him. I tend to group he and Gordon together because both were purchased the same offseason that Dumars felt he had to fill in all that empty space on the payroll with warm bodies.
So based on contract numbers, Smith was 2x as expensive and therefore, 2x as bad for the team.
January 23rd, 2015 at 2:36 PM ^
was the last that Bill Davidson was to be alive
I think Joe D wanted to spend the money while he could knowing the new owners / davidsons wife would be evalauating him right away
January 23rd, 2015 at 3:11 PM ^
Instead of Ben and Charlie, Dumars could simply have retained Arron Afflalo and Amir Johnson on their rookie contracts, for about the same production.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:22 PM ^
Given the other players coming out in the 2003 draft, that may have been the worst move of all time in the NBA. But hindsight is 20/20.
Sure would have been nice to have had Wade, Bosh, or Anthony in a Pistons Jersey.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:25 PM ^
In hindsight, bad, but nowhere in the category of Portland taking Sam Bowie at #1 over Michael Jordan.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:29 PM ^
Olajuwon was #1, Bowie was #2, Jordan was #3 but I would have a hard time arguing your point
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:31 PM ^
...for a year-and-a-half in the mid-1990s, Hakeem doesn't have any rings. Do people then blast the Rockets for taking Hakeem over Jordan?
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:38 PM ^
But Bowie was a bust for more reasons than not having any rings. And the 94-95 Rockets would have given the hypothetical Jordanful Bulls all they could handle, if they even made it past the Magic in the Eastern Conference Finals. The Rockets swept the Magic, who had Shaq and Penny and won 57 games in the (then more powerful) Eastern Conference.
I think in any universe Hakeem was a more defensible first pick than Bowie was a second pick, even given what Jordan turned out to be.
January 23rd, 2015 at 2:10 PM ^
What coulda happened did, my revisionist friend.
If I say those Rockets would've beaten those Bulls with Jordan, the only thing you can say is "Nuh uh-uh"... it'll only ever be a matter of opinion, as they never met in the finals when Jordan was there.
January 23rd, 2015 at 2:54 PM ^
Even without those titles, Hakeem would have been a first-ballot Hall of Famer. Can't really knock Houston for drafting him.
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:33 PM ^
They made up for it by drafting Greg Oden in '07.
January 23rd, 2015 at 7:21 PM ^
Thank you for mentioning that. What a terrible call by the Blazers.
January 23rd, 2015 at 10:55 PM ^
Took them a while to recover from it but now, they're a legit NBA Final contender. Dame Lillard was thought to be a reach for the Blazers but it was worth the pick for them bc of his killer instinct and ability to elevate his team. Of course, Lamarcus Alridge emerging as one of the better big guy in the league helps.
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January 23rd, 2015 at 11:04 PM ^
I wouldn't say it was so much a "terrible call" as terrible luck. I don't think there were many signs that Oden's body would fall apart right after he was drafted (other than that he looked 35 years old when he was 18).
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:21 PM ^
Iverson?
January 23rd, 2015 at 1:21 PM ^
Darko