ND's Kelly: Suspended Players will play, if cleared Friday
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-notre-dame-academic-in…
Interesting to see what happens with this story. There had been a lot of speculation that if reinstated late this week that they would not play. However Brian Kelly says the players have been working out well with the strength and conditioning coach and will in fact play on Saturday if cleared before the game. If they are in fact innocent, I hope they play.
September 5th, 2014 at 6:53 AM ^
September 5th, 2014 at 7:19 AM ^
I think people make too big of a deal about how sitting for a couple weeks impacts performance. I can understand that line of thinking if a player isn't working out in the meantime, but do you think that these guys, especially the veteran ones, just forget how to play football in a few weeks? Do you think they won't be watching film of Michigan with the other guys? Do you think they won't be discussing what schemes they'll be using against Michigan with people? If they play, I doubt you see much drop off, if any, from how they'd normally play.
September 5th, 2014 at 7:25 AM ^
These players would have missed a lot of practice, generally, and ALL of the gameplanning and practice that is specific to Michigan. That is a pretty big deal in football. If they did play with no practice, that would speak volumes about Notre Dame's depth (and not in a good way).
September 5th, 2014 at 8:37 AM ^
I disagree on two points. First, if anyone actually thinks that these guys have not been practicing, you're crazy. They may not be at practice, but I guarantee that outside of that, they've been doing drills with their teammates. Second, in my experience, practice is important, but talent wins out. Once you have put in the amount of time that these guys have, you get a sort of muscle memory. Taking a few weeks off does not change that. They may shake off a bit of rust early, but they won't be limping through the game.
September 5th, 2014 at 8:48 AM ^
I agree. They haven't forgot the plays or how to play football and I doubt they've been sitting around doing nothing. They may not be at 100% but they probably would help more than hurt the team.
September 5th, 2014 at 8:55 AM ^
you play kind of inspired after being cooped up and not being out there for a stretch. And you can bet that Kelly has been working these guys hard, whether they were "practicing" or not.
Kelly was brought in to stretch the rules, not to adhere to them like some. . . school boy.
September 5th, 2014 at 9:03 AM ^
September 5th, 2014 at 9:34 AM ^
preparation matters. Are these guys studying film at all? Understanding the schematics? Unless they were allowed to watch film while they were off. . .
September 5th, 2014 at 9:51 AM ^
Yes. Yes. And they were.
September 5th, 2014 at 9:51 AM ^
I would argue that teams are not at their best during week 1 because of a lack of continuity, moreso than the returning players being out of game shape. New players are inserted into positions that they have not been in before, which is the main cause of weak play early in the year. Also, 8 months off is not the same as 2 weeks off. Those aren't really comparable. I won't sit here and argue that practice is irrelevant, but I will certainly argue that two weeks off does not automatically make a player a liability. Talent is talent, and if a guy gets beat out for a spot, there is a reason.
There are very few things that players can get in practice that they cannot get outside of practice. These suspended players have been watching tape on Michigan. I promise that. They've been working out. They've been looking at their playbook. It's optimistic to think that they won't be ready.
September 5th, 2014 at 12:02 PM ^
September 5th, 2014 at 12:31 PM ^
Eh. I mean, we agree on that fact, but not to the same extent. I'd be shocked if the QB wasn't independently working with his WR on a routine basis. That exchange requires the most synchronization. I think that the DB that doesn't play will have far less of a disadvantage, and even he will be kept in the loop. It's not like they were all shipped to a desert island for three weeks.
September 5th, 2014 at 10:05 AM ^
I think many on this board are extrapolating from their h.s. football experience, where talent reigns supreme. College football is a lot more sophisticated than h.s., talent is abundant, and there are reasons teams drill, game plan, and study film for particular opponents.
Not that you could not plug in these players and hope for the best. But as you put it so well, practice matters. Unless you're Allen Iverson.
September 5th, 2014 at 10:14 AM ^
I am sort of extrapolating from my experiences in HS football, but I also played college soccer. The effects of practice are cumulative. Over years and years, practice serves as a way to reinforce good traits and shed bad ones. Strategies and systems aren't learned overnight, nor are they forgotten overnight. As an aggregate, practice is critical, obviously. But a short term issue like this one... those players may not be 100%, but it is safe to assume they will be 99%.
I guess I want to clarify that I don't feel that practice doesn't matter. I just feel that 2 weeks of practice doesn't matter all that much. At this point in their lives, they've all had 12-15 years of practice, so 10 days isn't all that hyper-critical.
It's also interesting that I have people arguing that practice isn't as important in the NFL, because those players are experienced. I also have people arguing that practice isn't as important in HS, as there is a bigger talent gap. So is college the practice criticality sweet spot?
September 5th, 2014 at 11:54 AM ^
they've missed 3 weeks of practice.
September 5th, 2014 at 12:00 PM ^
That's not too nitpicky. The longer the absense, the more valid the argument. Three weeks represents a 50% bigger problem for the players. That said, I still think that they'll be basically fine if they play.
September 5th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^
Regarding soccer v. football:
Soccer is a game of technique and tactics. I guy who misses 3 weeks of practice but still has access to the field and a ball can still work on technique. And he won't just lose his skills. He can also probably fit right back into the tactical shape of the team; when his right fullback get the ball in the first third, the left midfielder expects certain players to be in certain positions and gets to where he might be helpful or dangerous.
Football is similar in regards to technique. Guys dont forget how to run or block or catch. But football isn't a free flowing game bound by broad tactics. It is a game of individual plays. If your WR misses practice, the QB gets in the habit of anticipating where the new WR will be at moment X during play Y. The ball might have to be thrown nearer to the hash because the backup WR doesn't get out of his break fast enough on his out cut. Or whatever. And football is 11 v 11 on every play, from the snap of the ball. It's just different than soccer.
I would argue that missing football practice is more detrimental to the player and the team than missing a practice in any other sport. I've played them all. Football is weird that way because of its format.
September 5th, 2014 at 12:46 PM ^
There's a reason that it is called the game of inches.
I've also played football, and do agree that the mechanics are much harder to pick up. The timing is much more specific. Soccer is about creativity and fluidity, reacting to what one sees. Football is "be here and do this and if this then that." It's rigid. One could specifically argue that for offensive players, who have much tighter scripts. But still, I think they can step right back into the swing of things.
Hopefully we do not get our answer tomorrow.
September 5th, 2014 at 7:48 AM ^
September 5th, 2014 at 8:17 AM ^
Are we talking about practice??
September 5th, 2014 at 12:56 PM ^
The Iverson video is pure genius. That being said, I now know that Allen and I live in alternate universes.
September 5th, 2014 at 8:55 AM ^
Disagree . The best NFL guys sit out of practice constantly, but still make sure to work out, study film, do walk throughs, etc. And the reason they're able to do that and still stay elite is the fact that their skills make them elite, not their preparation (although preparation is still important).
September 5th, 2014 at 8:58 AM ^
Yeah, but those are NFL players. NFL players who are the best of the best and spend literally their entire career preparing with the best staffs. They can usually afford to sit out more. While I'm sure some college players are experienced/talented enough sit out three weeks and not mis a beat, but I wouldn't want to count on that.
September 5th, 2014 at 9:38 AM ^
Suh knows what Jay Cutler wants to do when he's on the field against him because he's played him twice a year in his career. . .he doesn't need to study film as intensely. . .
Robert Porcher used to talk about that all the time. Rougly paraphrasing he said, that he knew how certain OL's were going to block him. . . And he knew how he was getting blocked what was coming. . .
September 5th, 2014 at 9:58 AM ^
John Gagliardi (most wins by a college coach) didn't hit in practice during the season, and Larry Kehres (#4) rarely did.
September 5th, 2014 at 11:18 AM ^
Nor did he utilize blocking sleds, nor did he have a conditioning program, nor did his practices last more than an hour and a half or so. Such is life at Div III. Of this we can be sure, if his ideas were worth emulating at higher levels they would have been.
September 5th, 2014 at 5:04 PM ^
Such is life at Div III. Of this we can be sure, if his ideas were worth emulating at higher levels they would have been.
Football is a very hidebound and traditional sport.
I lack your certainty.
It works in HS, it works in D3, it works in D2, and the NFL does it... but it couldn't work in D1.
September 5th, 2014 at 11:22 AM ^
I'm sure he doesn't expect them to play. He just thinks he will screw with Hoke's gameplanning if he says this.
September 5th, 2014 at 6:55 AM ^
September 5th, 2014 at 9:02 AM ^
From what I heard this morning, far from having a meltdown, Ira said that he doesn't really care if they play, and that it won't change the way he views the game.
September 5th, 2014 at 6:56 AM ^
Why not make them get back and then practice for some time and make them earn the time.
September 5th, 2014 at 7:33 AM ^
September 5th, 2014 at 7:38 AM ^
games at least. Being cleared doesn't mean, however, that they were correctly cleared.
You'd have to wonder if it occurs on the eve of the Michigan game.
(had to wait on your edit to reply).
September 5th, 2014 at 7:43 AM ^
September 5th, 2014 at 7:59 AM ^
I have seen no allegations that these players broke any team rules, so your post makes no sense to me.
The players were accused of violating the school's honor code. If cleared, that means that they are deemed no be innocent of the charges. No punishment is necessary for innocent players, and living in South bend is a sufficient punishment for the judgement error of choosing to play for ND.
September 5th, 2014 at 8:23 AM ^
If you are aware of the accusations, then you, in fact, HAVE seen the allegations.
September 6th, 2014 at 5:59 PM ^
I have seen only what has been publicised, and can draw conclusions based only on that. Nothing has been said (insofar as I know) about violating team rules, beyond any rules to follow the school rules.
September 5th, 2014 at 9:24 AM ^
September 5th, 2014 at 6:58 AM ^
The folks over at Irish Envy are hopeful. Daniels made some vague tweets last night about how excited he was, so they're taking that to mean that he's cleared and that he and the other players will get the official news sometime today.
September 5th, 2014 at 7:50 AM ^
but I'll be sure to get over there more often as it is a veritable fountain of youth. I read some of what is posted and I'm instantly transported back in time four decades to when I also was 14 years old.
September 5th, 2014 at 9:15 AM ^
Plus that pertains to only one player. It's possible ND hands down a split decision.
Split decision. Jesus. It's like the reporters hanging around outside the Supreme Court and then running down the steps to the TV cameras once the results of a seminal case come out. Except this time it will be sports bloggers and ND fans.
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September 5th, 2014 at 6:59 AM ^
"On Thursday, Kelly said the players still haven't had those hearings, as far as he knows, and as such, they look unlikely to play Saturday against Michigan."
And the article's third paragraph, for that matter.
September 5th, 2014 at 7:02 AM ^
September 5th, 2014 at 7:35 AM ^
They probably have been practicing "behind the scenes" as well, knowing this.
"The five . . . have been working with strength and conditioning coach Paul Longo as they sit out of practices and games."
What do you bet that 'ole coach Paul had some "special" exercises for them that Kelly "suggested" they might like that look a lot like practice game plans.
September 5th, 2014 at 7:36 AM ^
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September 5th, 2014 at 8:17 AM ^
Not a game..... practice.
September 5th, 2014 at 12:40 PM ^
who clears them knows as we do that without football, ND would be nothing but William & Mary (without William).
September 5th, 2014 at 7:07 AM ^
institution I am more sick of than that one.