MSU Update: Per MSU lawyer, no MSU officials aware of Nassar's conduct before summer '16 articles
So Bill Schuette, Michigan AG, recently requested the investigative reports prepared by MSU regarding the Nassar incidents.
MSU's lawyer just responded to Schuette, and declined, basically saying there is not a report because MSU's investigation confirmed that no MSU officals knew anything prior to the breaking news articles published in the summer of '16. Therefore, there was nothing to report.
The dynamics at play could make this really ugly. Schuette is running for governor and may choose to use this as a "justice for the people" platform (no politcs). Then, you have plaintiff's counsel who want to get their hands on as much info as possible. Not to mention, the public is going to want the same info that Schuette and plaintiff's counsel want.
All the while, MSU needs to protect as much privileged information as they can (assuming there really was no criminal conduct). In doing so, they're really helping the taxpayers, since we're the ones indirectly paying for this.
Just a very sad situation.
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2017/12/08/msu-lawy…
December 8th, 2017 at 3:16 PM ^
that they (at least some of them) told someone at MSU about misconduct by Nassar? If not, seems like the MSU report stands. If so, it's a he-said she-said that could get ugly.
December 8th, 2017 at 10:51 PM ^
they were told about misconduct.
This is not the kind of two-sided story you are thinking about.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:18 PM ^
Calling girls stupid and not knowing medical practices from abuse. There needs to be more people in prison for that. Hollis and LAS need to be held accountable.
This has nothing to do with UofM vs. MSU. This is about supporting a culture of abuse. MSU is no better than Penn State. And Fuck Penn State. Fuck MSU.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:20 PM ^
I find the statement that no one knew about his behavior fascinating and repulsive. Someone knew. Someone always knows. These behaviors don't show up on a fine morning. There is always some indication. We as a society may want to close our eyes to misdeeds of people we like, but that doesn't alter the truth.
That's all. I feel really sad and angry that this happened.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:43 PM ^
some mid-level people have to have been told of occurrences, but failed to pass on the information to higher ups as they were legally obligated to do. The MSU lawyer's statement ain't going to fly.
December 8th, 2017 at 4:02 PM ^
How many times has someone testified before Congress and said "I don't recall"? Happens all the time. The boss says "do this, but I didn't tell you to do this" to cover his ass.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:53 PM ^
This probably isn't even about anyone at MSU liking Nassar. His reputation as a doctor brought the university prestige and money, which seems to have bought him a very long leash. Hopefully we'll find out who was holding that leash so that justice can be given to the victims.
December 8th, 2017 at 4:29 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 5:23 PM ^
Not quite. Everyone knew. No one talked. That's different than a lawyer claiming "no one in the authority knew". My comment was more to respond to the sentence in the letter that "they" were aghast to know that he was leading a double life.
December 8th, 2017 at 7:30 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 11:51 PM ^
December 9th, 2017 at 10:20 AM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 6:29 PM ^
This has to be sarcasm, no?! Oddly timed, but nonetheless.
December 8th, 2017 at 8:30 PM ^
December 9th, 2017 at 10:32 AM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 3:25 PM ^
I don't understand how there can be no report of an investigation regardless of its findings. They didn't document any of the investigation process? Really?
December 8th, 2017 at 3:29 PM ^
There's no report because they swept it all under the rug.
Unfuckingbelievable.
December 8th, 2017 at 4:10 PM ^
to investigate, but they had them present an oral report and then claimed there was no written report to release.
December 8th, 2017 at 5:24 PM ^
Baylor also refused to release the Pepper Hamilton (the outside firm that did the investigation)'s source documents.
A lawmaker sued on that one - and he won the first ruling. Won on the grounds that "because Baylor spoke publicly as regards some of the details in the documents, they can't claim privledge for all of the details in the documents."
That ruling has been appealed (of course), but will be resolved eventually.
Anyway, MSU appears to have learned from that -- they're not talking about the findings. At all.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:26 PM ^
If you are in a high level position you are responsible for the people underneath you. When something as horrible as this goes on for as long as it did, that means there are big managment, procedure, and cultural issues. Whether or not the president or AD knew, they should still be held acountable for running a university/athetic departmant that did not stop what was happening until it was too late.
December 8th, 2017 at 4:53 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 3:27 PM ^
So... MSU held an investigation of themselves, found nothing, and won't release what they investigated? That's some bullshit.
December 9th, 2017 at 10:44 AM ^
I absolutely love when this GIF appears anywhere. Leslie Nielsen was the GOAT
December 8th, 2017 at 3:28 PM ^
The gymnastics coach knew. Everyone knows she knew. That's why she quietly retired when this stuff came out. I guess it's possible, maybe, she was the only one, but all the reports going all the way back to the original breaking news stated she was told time and again, and always told the complainants to shut their mouths.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:32 PM ^
That's possible. It means the gymnastics coach should face a much larger microscope, though. And the people supervising her.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:32 PM ^
just how does a coach, who develops a relationship with these kids, let this f*cker prey on them? How?? This is nearly Sandusky'esque.
Those poor kids.
I hope to God that this isn't happening anywhere else, and that people in a position of authority over kids start ratcheting up protection for them.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:58 PM ^
I think she's the worst (okay, 2nd worst) person in all of this. She was told numerous times I think, and dismissed the girls' concerns. Even as recent as last year I think she was trying to get girls on the team to rally to his side in support of him. Once she was suspended (I assume a mandatory requirement before a firing or something similar) she retired. Despicable.
December 8th, 2017 at 5:26 PM ^
She's much worse than Paterno in my book. Paterno's sin was to tell his bosses and leave it at that, and not try hard enough. The MSU coach (Kathie Klages is her name) was given explicit details on exactly what happened, from the victims themselves, and actively silenced them every single time. You couldn't come up with a more blatant example of covering up for a predator and creating an atmosphere of fear if you tried.
December 8th, 2017 at 5:26 PM ^
Every time I run across a mention of this tragedy the impressively vague "Spartans will" slogan flashes through my mind. Then I feel guilty.
December 8th, 2017 at 5:31 PM ^
More like Spartan Swill.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:30 PM ^
*BULLSHIT* *BULLSHIT* cough cough
December 8th, 2017 at 3:30 PM ^
MSU officials investigated themselves and found nothing wrong..Now theres a SHOCKER!!!
December 8th, 2017 at 4:23 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 3:31 PM ^
December 8th, 2017 at 3:52 PM ^
We could call some Macedonians to help us out, Comrade?
December 8th, 2017 at 3:32 PM ^
That's a very broad brush for any potential defendant to paint with on a case like this.
You have so many athletes with potential claims. All it takes is one stray email to and from many different parties or one recollection of one conversation or one internal memo. Anything happening before the time the stories broke.
That's a high risk manuever by the lawyer. He's got to be absolutely sure before he plays it.
For the school's sake, he'd better be right.
The other aspect of this is very often the proof of knowledge is pieced together circumstantially under a "reasonable person in that position should have or must have known" type standard.
In this way, claimants can prove liability in the face of the mass "I had no idea" defense. See that some times in large organizations who are being investigated.
I have my doubts the AG will stop here. Especially if he gets corroborating statements from the athletes which lead him to believe there is a possible cover-up.
If MSU is smart, they get their check book out, end it all fast and not make it too hard on the AG and the litigants.
I am saying this going only by what I read in the papers. Take it for what it's worth.
December 9th, 2017 at 10:33 AM ^
Here's what Fitzgerald actually said: "[W]e believe the evidence will show that no MSU official believed Nassar committed sexual abuse prior to newspaper reports in late summer 2016." (Fitzgerald is a Harvard JD, former federal prosecutor, currently a partner at Skadden.)
Plaintiff will probably bring a number of claims between Title IX (post-reporting and heightened risk) and infliction of emotional distress (negligent and intentional).
Gebser is instructive here: "[D]amages may not be recovered [...] unless an official of the school district who at a minimum has authority to institute corrective measures on the district's behalf has actual notice of, and is deliberately indifferent to, the [individual's] misconduct." (There are a few other liability limiting factors as well.)
Plaintiff needs to prove that MSU officials knew sexual harassment was occurring and refused to take any action.
December 10th, 2017 at 11:06 PM ^
So all MSU is claiming and would show that someone in the position to do something was not aware. Whether that is willful ignorance or not, that's a separate question. So if the MSU gymnastics coach knew but wasn't in a position to discipline the doctor, MSU is in the clear. If the coach didn't pass this information up the chain, then MSU is in the clear.
I guess the approach for the defendants would be to show that even though people in the position didn't officially know but they took actions which can only come from such knowledge. For instance, someone who could have taken action against the doctor didn't allow his/her daughter/sister/someone to visit the doctor by herself, though s/he claimed that nobody told them of the doctors' behavior. Right?
December 11th, 2017 at 3:08 PM ^
Plaintiffs will try to prove it's more likely than not that (i) MSU officials knew and (ii) they were deliberately indifferent.
It's anybody's guess as to what evidence they have to prove those things. There is evidence suggesting some people affiliated with MSU were aware of the allegations and became at least suspicious or distrustful of Nassar.
I'm not aware of any evidence available to the public that would clearly satisfy Gebser's requirements of actual knowledge and deliberate indifference by MSU officials.
December 11th, 2017 at 3:08 PM ^
Plaintiffs will try to prove it's more likely than not that (i) MSU officials knew and (ii) they were deliberately indifferent.
It's anybody's guess as to what evidence they have to prove those things. There is evidence suggesting some people affiliated with MSU were aware of the allegations and became at least suspicious or distrustful of Nassar.
I'm not aware of any evidence available to the public that would clearly satisfy Gebser's requirements of actual knowledge and deliberate indifference by MSU officials.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:32 PM ^
This article begs to differ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/msu-abuse-scandal-coach-had-gymnasts-sign-card-dr-larry-n731781 From the article "In 2014, a patient filed a complaint with the university, which investigated but did not discipline the doctor."
December 8th, 2017 at 8:03 PM ^
Thanks for posting.
Reading those accounts is absolutely sickening.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:35 PM ^
MSU's attorneys now say they can't share information with the AG's office citing attorney-client privilege and saying no report exists. https://t.co/M4cAEd6JPp
— Dan Murphy (@DanMurphyESPN) December 8, 2017
It's worth noting that the folks hired by MSU 10 months ago to review the school's potential culpability or wrongdoing have yet to talk to any of the women who say MSU has done wrong. https://t.co/vnP2ttZwqT
— Dan Murphy (@DanMurphyESPN) December 8, 2017
How can you complete an investigation without ever speaking to the victims?
December 8th, 2017 at 3:40 PM ^
Yikes. That's high risk lawyering there.
Closely akin to DENY, DENY, DENY at all costs.
December 8th, 2017 at 4:24 PM ^
Wow, this seems like it's aboiut ready to blow up. I suppose the investigators didn't speak with the departing coach either. It would be interesting to see how much these investigators were paid. I assume that is not privileged and subject to FOIA (not for content of billing, but the amounts). Then you can probably piece together how much time they spent. My guess is that they were specifically asked to only produce an oral report so that no "record" of the investigation could be produced.
December 8th, 2017 at 5:38 PM ^
Ten months and they've not yet bothered to talk to the victims, which would be core to their task? I am not a lawyer, but this seems.....less than studious and intentionally so, which is a despicable thing by itself, let alone everything else that has happened here.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:35 PM ^
An insane legal explanation that will almost assuredly backfire.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:49 PM ^
First off, Kathy Klages (the gymnastics coach) was informed about this before the articles came out. She's an agent of MSU. And that was about 19 years ago.
Second, Tiffany Thomas Lopez spoke up to the softball athletics staff repeatedly about 20 years ago. Nobody listened, or if they did, they swept it under the rug.
Third, in 1999 a cross country athlete made similar complaints, which were again swept under the rug.
Fourth, in 2014 a woman complained to the MSU police. (Of fucking course they referred it to the Ingham County Prosecutor, who was too busy hanging out with hookers to see anything wrong.)
And on and on. After that much sweeping under the rug, you get yourself a Mount Nittany of covering up.
Source? There are plenty, but you can start here:
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/page/msu_doctor_alleged_sexual_assault.html
So fuck MSU's administration, athletic department, and their fucking lawyer for lying about this atrocity. Lots of victims here, and lots of people at MSU who enabled Nassar. Those girls, MSU at large, and the State of Michigan deserve better.
December 8th, 2017 at 3:57 PM ^
since it claims that MSU admins weren't aware of Nassar's incidents until 2014, which is a full TWO YEARS earlier than what this new lawyer's statement is claiming.
They are soooo fucked.