Ghost of Hoke

December 29th, 2016 at 11:04 PM ^

Truly remarkable how fast the wheels fell off there. Dantonio has mentioned there's attrition coming. They don't recruit well enough to over come that. Somehow my PTSD still won't let me believe they're done.



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Larry Appleton

December 29th, 2016 at 11:54 PM ^

He ain't lyin'. Good programs will occasionally have a bad season here and there, but that means 7-5 or thereabouts. 3-9 is a freaking cyanide pill for that program.

And not changing a single staff member? What the hell would any of the returning players have to be excited about next year?



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mgobleu

December 30th, 2016 at 7:07 AM ^

There is ZERO comparison there besides the W/L tallies. On one hand, brand new coach, bringing completely new systems on both sides of the ball, tons of attrition and discontent by some of the players who did stay. Nothing like the other hand, coming off of one of your best seasons ever with a firmly ensconced coach. How the dropoff hasn't become an indictment on DonTono and his whole staff is beyond me.

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bluewave720

December 30th, 2016 at 6:39 AM ^

returned something like 19 starters which included a very good QB.  Colorado is an outlier.  Attrition, or lack there of, distorts the algorithm.  For MSU, they were bad, are losing a bunch of dudes, haven't recruited well and aren't changing coaches or ideologies. 
On one hand I agree with you about not being shocked if they competed in the upper tier of the conference.  But I feel like that lack of surprise is not coming from an objective perspective.  If it were any other power 5 team, and not a recent thorn in our side that was experiencing this, I feel like the overwhelming sentiment would be that they are done.  At least for now. 

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MichiganExile

December 30th, 2016 at 1:14 AM ^

The wheels really didn't fall off that fast though it just seemed that way. Last year they were essentially an 8-4 team that had literally every break go their way (Oregon player falls over on likely game winning TD, punt fumble return TD vs. M, OSU stupidity) that got absolutely exposed in the playoff. They then lost an absolute ton of experience off that team. Take that horseshoe out of their asses last year and this slide looks pretty normal. 

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superstringer

December 29th, 2016 at 11:05 PM ^

At least they have a killer recruiting class to come in and replace everyone and improve the team overall.

And of course, by "killer recruiting class," I mean "a bunch of warm bodies that Coach'll coach-up real well" [er "real good" if I read that other thread tonight correctly].

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Mojo Hall

December 29th, 2016 at 11:08 PM ^

Another new spot now open in their recruiting  class.  Mike D. has missed on his last six or  so targets but who can bypass the potential  for early playing  time.

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bluewings

December 29th, 2016 at 11:15 PM ^

Good luck to the kid. Although msu current class is not filling up they have gotten decent classes the previous two years. They will be better next year but coming off a three win season...



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alum96

December 29th, 2016 at 11:26 PM ^

Good athlete - not a good player.  It will be someone who grades out well on measurables and some loser franchise like Jacksonville or Cleveland will nab in the 6th based on athleticism rather than film. 

Next year they have a schedule a lot like ours this year; don't leave the state of MI until nearly November aside from once (ours Rutgers, theirs Minn).  2 big rival games on the road, etc. Benefit from WMU losing star QB and WR, and ND being a hot mess.  

I don't think Dantonio forgot to coach in 1 year although the salad days look like they are gone & Narduzzi gone took away some brainpower.  They will be a young team and  it will come down to if Lewerke is the real deal and they have any form of OL.  Defense will be young but has some young talent on it in front 7.  Getting Reschke back at LB will be big; the secondary is going to be full of questions.

I'd expect sure losses @UM, @OSU.  Then some toss up games vs PSU, @NW, @Minn Iowa, ND, Maryland, Indiana etc.  Pretty wide scale of outcomes next year (5 wins to 8 wins) based on Lewerke and if the OL can keep him upright.   If they split those toss up games 4-3 it's a 7-5 season and away we go back to the good ole days.  Dantonio got a deserved pass this year, and will be the best coach they ever can keep in the program for more than 5 years but the heat will probably be on big time a year from now.  2018 could set up well for them if Lewerke or deWeaver pan out as they will be a veteran team again but next year they are going to have a lot of youth issues.

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alum96

December 29th, 2016 at 11:36 PM ^

Should add that aside from maybe their DL coach Burton there is not anyone left on that staff any other program is clamoring for.  Another sign of decline as we know unfortunately from around here in the recent past.

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alum96

December 29th, 2016 at 11:55 PM ^

No it's Dave Warner who also is the co-OC.  No one wants him.

I think they have a good eye for finding talented players @ RB so that might just be good scouting more than coaching; I think it's been well argued that good running backs generally have "it" or not.  You can coach them up in things like pass protect but usually the studs are studs relatively early and inherently.  That's my view anyhow.

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umchicago

December 30th, 2016 at 12:31 AM ^

i tend to agree with your RB analysis.  usually good RBs show flashes early.  can you think of anyone who was a disaster as a frosh and turned out to be a stud as a senior?  i can't.  but it seems to happen at all other positions.

for example, i don't think you can teach good vision/instincts.  you either have it or you don't.  smith is a good example.  he's a solid all around RB but he could have been a beast if he had better running instincts.

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