MBB: Time for the training wheels to come off?
It seems this years team has taken a similar approach to most seasons. Ride the upperclassmen and let the kids come along slowly(except Iggy). With that said, who thinks its time to see what the 2018 class is all about. We’ve had glimpses, but I believe the best is yet to come in the postseason! Thoughts? BTW. Imagine all these guys that played against Nebraska coming back next year!
Castleton and Dejulius clearly need to take Brooks' and Johns's minutes. Maybe Beilein values practice too highly. Remember Ibi Watson getting so many minutes last year while doing nothing in them.
Yeah. He was basically out there to be a shooting “threat”. He was a square peg in a round hole. This years freshman have places they could fit into. I guess we trust coach to know when to pull the trigger a la McGary 2013 postseason.
Yeah! With Beilein's record of failure, it's hard to argue that we shouldn't second-guess--hell, overrule him! I bet that's the problem--he "values practice too highly."
Gedouttaherewitdatlamegarbaje
"Overvalues practice" is absolutely platitude but plenty of evidence Castleton/DDJ are earning those roles. The fans see it and recent minutes suggest Beilein does too.
I believe he's on record saying putting a kid out when he isn't ready can derail a season. That philosophy is key to his strong record as a developer of talent, but it's conservative (see: autobench) and fair to wonder whether it is the best approach for every kid.
DJ Wilson riding the pine was an epic failure by Beilein. He'd play with 2 minutes left in the game, it was obvious he was better than players getting minutes to everyone except the guy watching him in practice every day.
Same with Castleton this year.
Beilein is great, but let's not act like he has no flaws.
DJ Wilson showed flashes of NBA talent on day one. He was also erratic and tentatative by my observation. His skill set filled out over two years. I don't recall the game that Michigan lost that Michigan would have won with more DJ Wilson.
And let's not forget that both Wilson and Castleton were reed-thin when arriving on campus. Castleton has put on 20+ lbs. since arriving in A2 and is still skinny. It takes time for these guys to physically mature so they don't get pushed around (in addition to having to learn a complicated offense).
I can see Sanderson getting Castleton to 250 lbs over the next few years at which point he could be a real force inside.
This is some epic revisionism. In DJ's sophomore year, the talk on this very board was that he would never crack the rotation and should probably transfer.
imo, chatman was clearly further along than wilson upon arrival on campus. to ignore that there was a huge transformation in wilson in year 3 is revisionist history.
5.2 minutes per game is "so many"... yeah, okay.
And that's the average just for the games Ibi was in. He didn't play at all in more than a third of them.
At least Thad is no longer saying DDJ should be starting over Poole and Matthews.
Castleton and DeJulius were not the same players earlier in the season as they are now. Not even close.
They are much, MUCH better now. That's common for talented freshmen. The learning curve is very steep for most incoming freshmen. And they've climbed it such that they are now better than Brooks and Davis, but they weren't earlier in the season.
The coaches know what they're doing. And now they're playing those guys more because they're ready.
Bielien's offensive learning curve is steep, especially for guards like DDJ. And now, on top of learning one of the games more complex offenses, they have to learn how Yaklich expects them to play defense. And don't think they can get on the floor before they have a passing understanding of defense any more than offense! There's a lot to learn, so the fact they're getting PT before the tournament is a testament to how good they can be in a couple of years.
I hope we can still watch them in Crisler a couple of years from now. If not, we'll see some good bball before they leave!
Bielien's
For 12 years he's been our coach . . . you can learn his name.
Be nice, sir. Johns has been shoehorned into a 5. I'd love to see what he can do next year as a 4.
Unfortunately, we haven't seen the "jump" in February and March. Our early season heroics maybe attributed to Iggy being ahead in development and the team having the extra practices in Europe.
Right now they look like the classic highly seeded major conference team who coasted off a hot start and didn't improve. Destined to lose to a 7 seed.. See UNC last year.
I hope I'm wrong.
Quite pessimistic. I understand where you're coming from but still, destined? It's going to be all about the matchup(s). Plenty of 6, 7, 8 seeds will be teams who will be able to beat us but plenty who won't matchup for shit agaisnt us as well (and that goes for 1, 2, 3 seeds too).
Yeah I need to quit drinking and go to bed. Heck Simmons saved us in a tourney game last year.
It's just a bad feeling I have. I have followed the tourney and seedings for 25 years now. The 2 and 3 seeds from Major conferences are good teams, but there's a certain type of them. There's the riser like we usually are.. and this..
Usually a big 12 or SEC who started on fire an did nothing but tread water in conference ( for a good team). Which means win all games at home and win most they "should" on the road.
If I'm betting on Big 10 team to make the Final 4 its us, but I don't feel good about our chances.
I don’t think it’s matchup dependent at all. The first time the team shoots like shit against a decent team they lose. It could be the first round. It could be the final. There’s no way to know, but their inconsistent 3pt shooting will show up again.
Did you watch last year's tournament? The shooting was bad to terrible in every game game save vs A&M.
And this years defense is significantly better.
The caveat is that Michigan got pretty lucky to get to the final last year while shooting so poorly. Needed a miracle against Houston and then played relatively weak teams in the regional final and final four.
The poor shooting probably wouldn't have been enough against better teams and it wouldn't be a wise strategy this year. But, that defense could carry them through a clunker or two in the first few rounds.
The team is undefeated in every game in which CJ Baird has scores. Give that kid the minutes and the team wins it all!
He's got a great stroke!
But, as an athlete, he'll make a good investment banker!
I did. It seems that the defense, lately, has had more lapses than during the tourney run. Definitely feelings ball, but the team has looked lost and sloppy an uncomfortable amount of time.
I hope they make a great run this year, but I won’t be overly upset if they go cold in the first round and get bounced. It’s been a good season. I expect next season to be even better.
I'd have maybe partially agreed with you after the MSU game, but we may have just discovered a huge piece of the puzzle vs. Nebraska. Having a legit backup center will open up so many options.
Not to mention we've got a program that tends to become a fully-operational death star in March.
I hope so.. But we had this party after IU too with Johns.
Having a decent backup center doesn't really open up "so many options" whatever that means. It just means we'll have a decent guy playing for 8 minutes a game instead of a meh guy playing 8 minutes a game. It would be nice, no doubt. But 8 minutes from one player out of 200 player-minutes a game is 4% of player minutes. So if 4% of player minutes is marginally better, you're not getting that much better.
Michigan would get more out of increasing Livers minutes. So I think the more significant thing about the Nebraska game was to see how good Michigan still was on defense with Livers instead of Matthews and how much better they were on offense with Livers in the game (all Nebraska caveats apply).
I'd like to see more Livers minutes, as well. That kid can shoot, and he needs to be as fearless as Poole about throwing it up - just with better decisions behind the shots!
But dude, you can't say that having a decent Castleton spell Teske is the difference in 'decent vs meh'! Davis is simply not an option - can't keep up defensively, and is zero threat on offense. And neither John's nor Livers can provide minutes at the 5 that allows the offense to stay the same. Small ball offense is different from offense when Teske is in, and so is rebounding. Having Castleton as a viable option against big 5's allows Bielien to use small ball with Livers/Johns when he wants to, rather than being forced into it because Teske needs a break. That difference may seem subtle to us, but I bet it makes a huge difference on the floor.
But it does give Coach B a much bigger bag of options. When Livers was #1 option behind Teske, he was NOT available to step in to give us better options at the 2, 3, or 4; when Brooks was the only option (ugh) at guard because Livers was forced to play the 5 when Teske was autobenched or needed a breather, it got even worse.
Now that Castleton appears fully armed and dangerous as #1 option behind Teske, Livers only has to go in at the 5 when Coach B actually wants to go to a small lineup. He's now much more fully available to insert elsewhere, to 1) sit Charles; 2) move Charles to the 2; 3) sit Iggy; 4)switch Iggy to the other forward position; 5) sit Poole.
I look for a big increase in minutes now for Livers because of the flexibility gained with Castleton now being #1 option at the 5.
Add in the fact that we also now have DDJ replacing Brooks and no longer have to essentially play 4 on 5 if Simpson or Poole are out for any reason and we are potentially leaps and bounds better when the autobench kicks in.
well, we got bounced in the elite 8 a few years ago due to 4 meh minutes from a backup center in the first half. granted it was the #3 center.
Lets see how Castleton does today and next weekend in 2 tough road games before we put too much stock in him for this years’ run.
This^^^^^^^
Eh. If we're oversimplifying things, they can defend as well as anyone and they are a bleh perimeter shooting team. Which means yeah, they could come out and shoot 5 for 30 from 3 and lose to a 7 seed or they could shoot 15 for 26 from 3 and beat a healthy Duke team to go to the final four. So it goes, just try to enjoy it.
Unfortunately, we haven't seen the "jump" in February and March.
In fact, we haven't won a single game in March this year!
Fine be pedantic. But it's like clockwork. Brian posts something how we've been a top 5 team on Kencom since the Maverick Morgan game, or Simpson's awakening. Usually starting from late Jan or early February.
Nothing this year. Because we're only top 20.
I got nothing to fix this and it's not someones fault. 330 teams end with a loss in basketball.
He posted the month of February splits yesterday or Thursday (UV, I think) and Michigan was the 8th best team in the country over the course of the month.
Is M playing like the BEST team in the country right now like last years team was going into the BTT? No.
Is this solidly a top ten team like it has been all year? Yes. Is this a team as well-coached as any in the country? Yes. Does this team have as good a combo of experience and talent as any non-Duke team in the country? Yes.
Can this team get to a final four and compete for a title? Absolutely.
Honestly last year I had a similar feeling to this year. I just didn't think the offense was good enough to win in the tourney. I was wrong and maybe I'm wrong again. JB just seems to excel in the tourney format. Year after year his offense has been versatile enough to overwhelm teams. Obviously there's a lot of basketball yet to be played, but I find myself in the weird zone of knowing what this team is capable of and where they're actually at right now. I'll probably stick to underestimating them and seeing what happens. Seems to have worked in the past. God I'm ready for some March madness.
I concur...this is me...I believe they have a ceiling that is high enough to win it all. What I do not like about them is their floor-sometimes they are damn pathetic. But when they are hitting on all cylinders they are a joyful thing of beauty.
I'm not sure how you can "improve" when you start out 17-0. Almost any team will cool off after that type of start or have a few bad games. Off the court, I believe they are improving and on the court, they are learning from some tough losses. The freshmen seem to be improving and ready to contribute some depth down the stretch and in the tournament. The starters are continuing to develop as well. Matthews seems to be finding his groove at times. Poole is learning (hopefully) better shot selection and more consistency on defense - he seems to have gotten the message in the last game. Iggy is learning to adjust to different defenses. Simpson and Teske are much improved shooters. I could go on and on. Their midseason slump should help them come tourney time if they learn and put it all together.
Hell how could you judge March already? Crystal ball, much?
Trust Coach B.
He wants to win it more than anyone.
Agree.
And let’s remember that we have had a remarkably stable starting lineup this year. No injuries at all until Matthews rolled his ankle against MSU. In Beilein’s presser after beating Nebraska, he said that because the team was playing so well and because they were competing for a Big Ten title, he chose NOT to give more minutes to Castleton, Johns, and DJ until now because he didn’t have to and didn’t need to take that risk of any of them blowing a winnable game. He is incredibly competitive and he really wants to win the Big Ten. He has not wanted or seen the need to give the freshmen more early season playing time at the cost of more team losses. We haven’t been in this situation very often where the team comes out on fire like they did at the beginning of the season and I don’t blame him for wanting to go for it and win the Big Ten regular season title.
Now, with Matthews injured, Beilein has to give some of these guys more minutes and at this point in the season, he specifically mentioned wanting to limit Teske to 30 min a game. The good thing is that our freshmen have had the chance to develop their skill and B-ball IQ learning the Michigan offense and defense while in practice. And at this point, they are much better equipped to make a positive impact than they were early in the season.
Another thing that JB said in the presser is how in the back half of the season, he has been having his veterans (specifically mentioned Teske and X) be the primary coaches and teachers for their positions in his practices. JB said something to the effect of, “Nothing helps you learn the way to do something better than teaching it to someone else.” And he attributed the product we saw from DDJ and Castleton vs. Nebraska to the work X and Teske have done teaching them in practice. He also mentioned that this allows him to rest our starters more in practice while still getting meaningful development out of them. I absolutely love this wisdom, because he’s absolutely right - you learn and understand so much more about a subject when you have to teach someone else how to do it.
Upvotes all day on this. This is what I was looking for. Great explanation and solid sourcing. Thanks!
Both Castleton and DDJ bring more offensively to the table than the two they have been behind all season.
Johns is able to run the pick and roll and make a dunk on a poor switch from the defense. That’s about the extent of the offense he brings currently at the 5. I could see him spelling Livers a bit at the 4 especially if Matthews is out for an extended period of time, and I think he could be an asset. Castleton can do things in the post. He can get the ball on the low block and make something happen. While he may be thin, he has much more length than Johns so that’s a plus on defense.
DDJ can attack the basket much better than Brooks. Haven’t seen much in the way of an outside shot yet from him, but Brooks has been woeful shooting the ball in the conference season, which is inexcusable for someone getting the minutes he gets at the 2.
While the depth is the biggest issue we focus on the truth is that it will come down to our 3 wing players and how they perform and that will determine how we will do in the tournament. If 2 of Poole, Matthews (if healthy) and Iggy play poorly we will not advance past the second weekend. We cannot overcome two of those playing poor. It is the main reason we have lost the games we have.
1. I mean I understand why you see that from DeJulius (and I agree) since he’s had a good amount of minutes the past few games, but you gotta also consider that Eli Brooks was basically on the same level as a freshman last year, perhaps higher, than the level of DDJ is now. Also, Castleton has played 1 significant game, I would understand if he’s played more and there’s more of a sample size but to think that Beilein knows less having watched them for hours upon hours compared to someone seeing them for 10 minutes each in game would be inaccurate.
2. Regarding the Poole Iggy Matthews point, I actually think that if 2/3 of them are performing throughout the tourney we can definitely make it to the final four and even win it all. If only ones performs well I think we can still make it to the second weekend. That’s because consistently throughout the season, generally only one of them shows up per game and I think we’ve won many more games than we’ve lost even considering that, due to our defense. 2/3 of them performing well would give you a performance like the games against Villanova or Purdue or Indiana, so I would consider 2/3 of them playing to be the basis of getting past the second weekend, but moreso that if we’re able to do that, we’re going to do some damage, again due to our elite defense
Win the game(s).
I don't see the younger players getting much playing time in the next two games. May during the first game of the B1G tournament.
If Matthews remains out with an injury, and with Beilein looking to limit Teske’s minutes to 30 per game to keep him rested, we will see Castleton and/or Johns getting around 10- 15 minutes of playing time per game. That’s higher usage than they have had in the past. Need necessitates usage at this point.
That's not what "usage" means
His point wasn't a statistic for offensive usage, it was use on the floor. He used the word correctly, you took a literal meaning straight out of fancy stats. No harm, no foul - but words sometimes have several meanings...