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Interesting Debate on "Mike & Mike"

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:28 AM
#1
Ron_Lippitt
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Joined: 05/19/2011
MGoPoints: 264
Interesting Debate on "Mike & Mike"

Was listening to Mike & Mike on the way in to work this morning.  They were having an interesting debate on which I'd love to hear the board's opinion.

If one day in the future, your son were being recruited by both Bobby Petrino and Jim Tressel  who, for the sake of argument, were both head coaches at two big-time programs ---which program would you be more likely to counsel your son to attend?

Personally, it goes against everything I am to say this, but I think I'd rather have my son be a part of a Tressel-run program.  Tressel made huge mistakes to be sure, and had the hubris to actually believe he acted in his players best interest - which we now know, of course, was hilariously self-serving.  But his failure to act appropriately only violated NCAA rules -- which are complicated at best.  Whereas Petrino, we're not sure how deep the rabbit hole goes on this one, but it seems to violate every moral barometer you'd expect of a head coach.  Both coaches are superior tacticians.  Both coaches have nearly fanatic support from their respective players/alumni.  Both coaches send players regularly to the next level.

Petrino and Tressel will likely land on their feet (eventually).  So the question stands.

Thoughts?

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:32 AM | My head says Tressel, but my (Score:5 Normal)
unWavering
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Joined: 01/13/2011
MGoPoints: 1765

My head says Tressel, but my heart says Petrino.  I'd force him to choose Hoke anyway.

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:34 AM | Brady Hoke (Score:5 Normal)
wolverinestuckinEL
Joined: 09/21/2010
MGoPoints: 183

Brady Hoke

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April 11th, 2012 at 1:33 PM | He actually  has a Sugar Bowl (Score:3 Normal)
Philip A. Duey
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Joined: 08/11/2011
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He actually  has a Sugar Bowl title.

At hostes, pol, perniciter eant εις κοράκας

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:34 AM | Petrino. He banged a girl he (Score:5 Normal)
Michigan Arrogance
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Joined: 06/30/2008
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Petrino. He banged a girl he hired and lied about it to his wife & everyone else. I'd like to think that my influence over my son's personal character would trump that of a head football coach.

 

The Tressel thing is limited to football, but within that realm the HC would have more influence on my kids than I would.

Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East

We're not arrogant, we're just better.

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:45 AM | I see your point.  However, (Score:4 Normal)
mgokev
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Joined: 06/17/2009
MGoPoints: 6996

I see your point.  However, wouldn't you consider Tressel to be the superior coach with a higher ability to be successful from a team performance standpoint?  Additionally, do you consider Petrino's track record of entertaining/bolting for a new job in the middle of the night to be of concern?  Could you even be sure Petrino would be the coach 5 weeks later?  In my opinion, at least Tressel was loyal and wasn't going to go anywhere.

GO BLUE

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April 11th, 2012 at 12:19 PM | The entire argument (Score:4 Normal)
Mr Miggle
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The entire argument is based on a false premise. There would always be a better third option. Petrino seems to have no moral compass, making Tressel the lesser of two evils. However the idea that  Petrino is more likely to bolt is a strong point in his favor.

Eating is murder.

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April 11th, 2012 at 10:08 AM | Character (Score:2 Normal)
MGoBrewMom
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Joined: 08/13/2009
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Comes through in all you do. All infidelity is not the same...but not taking personal responsibility, i.e. covering up, shows huge lack of character.
I don't want my kid to play where the leader of the program has a lack of character.
The cover up is worse than the crime.

Neither. Ever.

Mom, MGrad and life long fan living in So Cal

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April 11th, 2012 at 12:16 PM | Very well said, (Score:1)
bluewave720
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Joined: 07/17/2009
MGoPoints: 928

but I would be more concerned over what influence a coach/team dynamic has over my son's personal character.  It would be peer pressure at it's highest form.  I remember how I was when I was 18 and I know that I could have been swayed to the "dark side" on some things if given an opportunity. 

 

"Coach, if you need one yard, I'll get you three yards. If you need five yards, I'll get you three yards." -Leroy Hoard

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:36 AM | I'm sure my kid will love (Score:5 Normal)
JBE
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Joined: 08/18/2008
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I'm sure my kid will love free stuff. I'm sure I'll love the free stuff my kid gets. Answer: Tressel.

Sent From My Commodore 64

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April 11th, 2012 at 11:38 AM | But is it worth it if it (Score:2)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28964

But is it worth it if it means vacating everything your son's team wins?

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April 11th, 2012 at 12:11 PM | The vacating doesn't really (Score:2)
MichiWolv
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Joined: 05/19/2011
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The vacating doesn't really mean anything though.  The fans will still count the wins as will the media.  You go to the Sugar Bowl's website.  They have the score/stats/MVP and the whole write-up on the game.  Then at the very bottom it says "Ohio (State)'s participation was later vacated".  Same with wikipedia.  Coming into The Game this year, all the announcers talked about how they beat us 7 straight and have won the last 6 BIG Titles(or a share of).  Not saying that's right or wrong, but it is what it is.  You can put an asterisk next to all their wins and awards to say they were vacated, but then I think you also have to put an asterisk next to "punishment".  We still count the Fab Fives accomplishment's don't we?  And people are fighting for the banners to be hung again.

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April 11th, 2012 at 12:37 PM | But you have to deal with the (Score:3 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28964

But you have to deal with the scandal forever when wins are vacated.  We can't bring up the Fab Five anymore without someone mentioning Ed Martin.  And those banners are never going back up.

OSU will forever have to hear how Tressel was a cheater.  His legacy is forever tarnished.  If you played for Tressel, your own legacy, by extension, is tarnished.

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April 11th, 2012 at 12:22 PM | This is the problem with vacating wins (Score:1)
jwschultz
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Joined: 09/21/2009
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What do you and your son get for every year those wins stay un-vacated? 

What do you get for every year after they've been vacated?

Sure, if your kid was the key Clarett/Pryor figure in the investigation and downfall, a lot of goodwill (which could be helpful; Craig Krenzel still seems to be making money selling lawn tractors here in Columbus) might go away.  But I think most of the players involved in vacated wins are still remembered as contributing to wins/great seasons, and if anything they're victims of the big names who screwed up and got the wins vacated/program investigated.

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April 11th, 2012 at 3:51 PM | Wait. Krenzel sells lawn tractors? (Score:2 Normal)
mooseman
Joined: 07/10/2008
MGoPoints: 394

I thought he was some genius biochemist.

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:36 AM | Tressel, no question. You're (Score:4 Normal)
Run 2 Daylight
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Joined: 09/01/2009
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Tressel, no question. You're not morally impaired because you violate rules set out by the NCAA.

Go Blue!

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April 11th, 2012 at 10:03 AM | Maybe not (Score:2 Normal)
HouseThatYostBuilt
Joined: 03/19/2011
MGoPoints: 268

morally impaired, but certainly ethically impaired.

GBOD

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April 11th, 2012 at 11:04 AM | Whaaaat? (Score:2 Normal)
Tater
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Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 10370

Tressel lied and cheated to gain an competitive advantage for ten years.  His teams intentionally hurt other teams' best players.  I think that counts as "morally imparied."

Also, why is everyone assuming Tressel never cheated on his wife?  People who cheat in as many aspects of his profession as Tressel did usually don't have a lot of integrity in their personal lives, either.

It's like we're still falling for Tressel's "The Senator" image in his personal life, even though it was pretty-well trashed in his professional one.

 

 

 

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April 11th, 2012 at 11:23 AM | We can't make judgments based (Score:5 Normal)
Magnus
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We can't make judgments based on what we don't know.  I can't say definitively that Tressel never cheated on his wife, but Petrino certainly seems to have done so.

You could sit here and suggest that every FBS coach has cheated on his wife, and none of us would be able to disagree with 100% certainty.  It goes back to the theme of Craig James killed 5 hookers, etc.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 20

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April 11th, 2012 at 12:59 PM | Yeah, but that actually (Score:5 Normal)
G-Man
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Joined: 10/21/2009
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Yeah, but that actually happened.

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April 11th, 2012 at 11:48 AM | His teams intentionally hurt other teams' best players. (Score:2)
Erik_in_Dayton
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Joined: 12/03/2008
MGoPoints: 6784

They did?

 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

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April 11th, 2012 at 12:11 PM | Robert Reynolds did (in 2003) (Score:2)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28964

Robert Reynolds did (in 2003) - though it may not be fair to generalize that to all of Tressel's teams.

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April 11th, 2012 at 10:12 AM | Tressel... (Score:1 Normal)
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
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did violate a contract he signed, though. I don't know if signing your name promising to do something and not following through with it is exactly moral behavior, and certainly not a message I would pass on to my children.

Go Blue!

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April 11th, 2012 at 11:57 AM | True enough (Score:3 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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Joined: 12/03/2008
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I have to admit, though, that I've always been sympathetic to the fact that there was an ongoing federal investigation and that Tressel presumably didn't think he could trust the NCAA not to leak that information or muck things up in some way that might hurt his players in a real life way, so to speak.  I can imagine myself thinking, "I'm going to let the big-boy police handle this, at least for now." 

I don't mean to say that Tressel handled the situation well, but it's so hard for me to take the NCAA seriously that I have to cut him some slack given the circumstances.

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

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April 11th, 2012 at 12:08 PM | Agreed. (Score:1 Normal)
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10867

And I'm not saying you would disagree, but I would definitely go to whatever lawyer handled legal matters for the AD. He would at least have had a case that he hadn't breached his contract and would have gotten expert advice on how to proceed.

In other words, he'd be taking responsibility and passing the buck all at once, which sounds exactly like something Tressel would want.

Go Blue!

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April 11th, 2012 at 12:25 PM | He certainly should have done that (Score:3 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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MGoPoints: 6784

I don't think he wanted to pass the buck, though, maybe to a fault.  He wrote in one of his books about not letting rules get in the way of doing the right thing.  It's easy to be cynical about that, but I think he was talking about the NCAA, which I think we all have to agree is a dubious body when it comes to decision making.

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

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April 11th, 2012 at 12:30 PM | Interesting thought, and that could well be the case. (Score:1 Normal)
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
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It just seems to me like Tressel would love to tell the players he was "protecting" that their punishment was a result of a university lawyer, and of course he would never bench them/report them himself. That's a cynical view, I know.

Go Blue!

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April 11th, 2012 at 2:08 PM | I actually agree with most of (Score:1)
BlueZoo
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Joined: 04/06/2010
MGoPoints: 91

I actually agree with most of this.  The Tressel stuff got blown up a bit because 1) it was the off-season, 2) it was Ohio State and 3) we didn't know about things like Miami and Penn State yet.  That being said, he still had a couple chances to come clean after the federal investigation ended and he didn't do it.

People seem to forget that Ohio State didn't really get in trouble for Tressel and the tattoo stuff.  They got in trouble for the booster in Cleveland paying players for no show jobs and the like.

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:41 AM | Tressel (Score:5 Normal)
detrocks
Joined: 08/18/2010
MGoPoints: 731

He covered up the Tatgate incidents and who knows if there was anything else, but Petrino has shown a consistent pattern of just being an ass everywhere he's gone.   If he treats his employers like dirt, I can only imagine how he treats the 17-21 year olds whose futures completely depend on him.

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:41 AM | My son will be 5'6" at the (Score:5 Normal)
swan flu
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My son will be 5'6" at the most... 

 

And if I had wheels I'd be a wagon.

Tenim un nom el sap tothom. Barca, Barca, BAAARCA!

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:49 AM | Altered query: (Score:2 Normal)
profitgoblue
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 19415

Okay, so what if Tressel was coaching Barca but Messi, Xavi, and Guardiola were coaching Real Madrid (for some insane reason)?  Where do you sign him up?

 

Disgruntled former moderator.  I got a lot of problems with you people!

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:53 AM | eek. talk about my own (Score:3 Normal)
swan flu
swan flu's picture
Joined: 08/16/2010
MGoPoints: 1114

eek. talk about my own personal hell.  I think Xavi is going to become a phenominal coach in the future (and Pep is already one of the best of all time)... so I'd send him to Madrid.

Tenim un nom el sap tothom. Barca, Barca, BAAARCA!

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April 11th, 2012 at 10:23 AM | Wow. (Score:1 Normal)
profitgoblue
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 19415

Hahaha.  I knew you'd like squirm at the thought of that scenario.  Good stuff.

 

Disgruntled former moderator.  I got a lot of problems with you people!

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:50 AM | Hmmmm (Score:1)
LSA Aught One
Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 854

Long Snapper.  We always need good Long Snappers.

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April 11th, 2012 at 12:39 PM | Long snappers are a lot (Score:2)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28964

Long snappers are a lot taller than 5'6".  They're basically offensive linemen.

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April 11th, 2012 at 10:23 AM | Well Then... (Score:2)
TheOtherOneGoes...
TheOtherOneGoesToMichigan's picture
Joined: 12/01/2008
MGoPoints: 663

...better teach him to be a second baseman.

Adams Axiom: The major difference between something that might go wrong and something that can not possibly go wrong is that when a thing that can not possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:42 AM | I would beat my son Kerrigan style. (Score:1)
Roachgoblue
Joined: 08/29/2011
MGoPoints: 1477

If he ever even mentioned playing at Ohio.

[Caved troll is caved. Sorry, Mobile app users.]

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:48 AM | Tough call..both are (Score:4 Normal)
MichiganMan_24_
Joined: 12/31/2008
MGoPoints: 909

Tough call..both are snakes..i wuld tell my son to choose because they both disgust me equally..grab a coin, kid

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:49 AM | I wouldn't want my son to (Score:2 Redundant)
Carcajous
Carcajous's picture
Joined: 07/05/2009
MGoPoints: 1577

I wouldn't want my son to play for eaither of those guys but I assume that the premise is you have to choose one.  If so, that would depend on the position my son played.

Offense... send him to Petrino.

Defense... send him to Tressel.

 

Neither would be in the mix if there were other good options, but if the premise of the question requires choosing one you'd have to make it pragmatically based on the side of the ball your son plays on.

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:49 AM | Since my 4 years at Michigan (Score:1 Normal)
Mr. Rager
Mr. Rager's picture
Joined: 11/16/2011
MGoPoints: 750

Since my 4 years at Michigan were during the Carr-Tressel era, I could never, ever send my kid to play for Tressel.  

Also, I don't even have A kid, let alone enough kids to start thinking about D-1 ball.  By the time he would be old enough to play, I think both of these guys will be dead.

"to make a complete evaluation off video w/o seeing guys in-person - I don't believe that at all." - Josh Helmholdt

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:53 AM | Not even a question (Score:2 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
Erik_in_Dayton's picture
Joined: 12/03/2008
MGoPoints: 6784

Tressel is a good guy who handled a situation poorly.  He's done a lot of good things for a lot of people.  This is a guy who could have cashed in in the football world in some way and who instead took an academic advisory position at Akron. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

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April 11th, 2012 at 10:02 AM | This is a great point... (Score:3 Normal)
MGoBkExam
Joined: 04/26/2011
MGoPoints: 18

Tressel did indeed handle Tatgate poorly and showed significant hubris.  However,  at the end of the day, I would want my son to have a head coach that he model his life outside of football after.  Tressel is known for some great work within the community and you are spot on that he could be making a ton more money in the NFL if he wanted but instead took a low profile position in Akron.  Petrino, for the most part, has shown an inability to act tasteful in any position yet and I believe would not exactly be the mentor I would want my son to have during college. 

 

All that said - I can't stand Ohio.

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:57 AM | Ugh... gotta be Tress (Score:3 Normal)
Duck4President
Duck4President's picture
Joined: 09/14/2010
MGoPoints: 135

As much as it pains me, the answer is Tressel for sure. While Tressel screwed up bad, and put winning before honesty, he always seemed to have the best interest of the players in mind. (Although you can definitely argue that he put winning in front of the long term growth of his players as human beings--see Clarrett, Pryor, etc.). This is in contrast to Petrino who, if you look at his entire career, has always put himself and his best interest before the players and even the team.

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April 11th, 2012 at 9:59 AM | If those are the (Score:1)
Princetonwolverine
Joined: 10/10/2010
MGoPoints: 2260

If those are the choices...skip football, go pro in something other than athletics.

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April 11th, 2012 at 10:01 AM | BOTH! (Score:5 Normal)
brose
brose's picture
Joined: 02/19/2009
MGoPoints: 953

2 years with Tressel....get a new car and some sweet ink, then transfer to where Petrino coaches.

Find Petrino's young, hot girlfriend, take her out in my safe car and get some action...you know Bobby ain't hittin' that right.  

Wait...that seemed funnier in my head.

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April 11th, 2012 at 1:21 PM | Petrino's girlfriend is hot? (Score:3 Normal)
dnak438
dnak438's picture
Joined: 08/12/2009
MGoPoints: 2007

I wouldn't say so.

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April 11th, 2012 at 1:26 PM | Do any girls look hot... (Score:1)
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10867

in those headshots they do? I'd say she's pretty damn good looking.

http://cdn.hollywoodgrind.com/images/2012/04/bobby-petrino-was-cheating-with-jessica-dorrell-hollywoodgrind-7.jpg

Go Blue!

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April 11th, 2012 at 10:08 AM | Ehh, (Score:1)
jblaze
jblaze's picture
Joined: 08/29/2008
MGoPoints: 3175

I read an article about how many US leaders have had affairs, and it's incredible.

I guess the point was that cheating on your wife is just one character trait of many that make a person a good leader, trustworthy.

That said, I'd take Petrino. as I fully believe that Tressel was dirty from his time at YSU and therefore it's a systematic problem as opposed to covering up a motorcycle accident (which was a 1 time thing).

"They're stuck with that quarterback (sophomore Braxton Miller) for the next two or three years, that's fine with me. He throws worse than (Tim) Tebow. - Steve Everitt

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April 11th, 2012 at 10:11 AM | wow... (Score:3 Underrated)
MSHOT92
MSHOT92's picture
Joined: 02/07/2011
MGoPoints: 278

I guess I have my own bias like anyone else...I'm really surprised to see the comments 'defending' tressel as a "good guy." To me personally..the dude is as filthy as a pair of undershorts on their fifth straight day, no means of flipping to the clean side...there were similar circumstances at Youngstown...there were things at ohio that lead me to believe it TOO is a rabbit's hole we may never know the depth of...I personally guarantee the tats and money issues were just a surface of a WHOLE lot of things going on way deeper...he just pressed himself as a clean virgin looking out for the best interest of his boys...bullshit...he's scum. He violated NCAA regs and did so with near criminal intent and coverup...he and Geno Smith are both culpable villains...the money they made and the power they held is far more than a guy who inadvertently sent a buddy an email he shouldn't have..

To me we are all 'mortal' judging men who live as immortals...with the salary and public life they lead guiding young men...both screwed up. I guess to me what Petrino did was more of a personal choice that technically had less impact on his PLAYERS...however in the end it cost him his job Tressel turned a blind eye to protect his chosen one..both of them are tarnished...if it came down to my son being offered by those two programs...I'd tell him to consider walking on somewhere or a career in the military...

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April 11th, 2012 at 10:11 AM | Decisions, decisions (Score:4 Normal)
Don
Don's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 19203

Hitler vs Stalin

Incurable cancer vs heart disease

Natty Light vs Bud Light

Snookie vs Roseann Barr

Pop Evil vs Neil Diamond

Crabs vs head lice

Jay Bilas vs Dick Vitale


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April 11th, 2012 at 10:14 AM | Neil Diamond? (Score:5 Normal)
Ron_Lippitt
Ron_Lippitt's picture
Joined: 05/19/2011
MGoPoints: 264

Neil Diamond sings Sweet Caroline.  Don't be hating on the dude...

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