Improving Transfer Recruiting
Has anyone heard anything about what Michigan is doing, if anything, to improve their ability to take transfers. Feels like the portal is becoming a bigger part of team building every year, and Michigan has been lacking. I think winning will help us retain players better, but we need to bring a few guys in every year to compete with other high end schools.
MSU was able to fill holes all over the roster last year with transfers. I think this is so effective because you really have a good idea of what the player is when he shows up, as you have seen them play high level football already.
The 2 big transfer recruits that visited this weekend would be a huge win for the program.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:32 AM ^
University of Michigan is, first and foremost, an academic institution. The tail does not wag the dog and there will be no changes to the current academic standards around transfer credit. And as long as that does not change, Michigan will not be a huge player in the transfer portal.
As an alum, I am perfectly fine with that.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:37 AM ^
The tail is already wagging the dog...
The university already makes an exception for most athletes. As you know, getting into Michigan is extremely competitive. I would guess that well over 90% of athletic scholarships go to students that otherwise wouldn't be accepted. Why should accepting transfers be any different?
December 13th, 2021 at 11:41 AM ^
I do not know why this is CONSTANTLY discussed but it is less about accepting the student and it is more about accepting transfer credit. We wanted to bring in Henry To'oto'o via portal but admissions would not accept many of his credits from Tennessee.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:46 AM ^
If you're talking revenue sports/the Big 3 at Michigan, I think that's probably accurate.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:50 AM ^
LOL at all the Alumni who think Michigan is world famous for their elitist Academic reputation.
they do/Have reduced admissions standards for years for athletes as well as minorities.
TRANSFER credits is where we lose most of the Portal kids
December 13th, 2021 at 1:44 PM ^
Just for the record, UM is known world wide as an elite academic institution. Most people around the world do not follow American football and even less follow the college version.
one might also argue that the standards for minorities are not “reduced” but calibrated to take all the factors that effect education and learning into account.
but yes, transfer credits is the issue with the portal.
December 13th, 2021 at 2:47 PM ^
Yikes man, just yikes.
Do you not think Michigan is world-famous as an academic institution?
December 13th, 2021 at 6:41 PM ^
Because American football is huge in other countries?
December 13th, 2021 at 11:07 PM ^
I’m not sure why you are laughing at alumni who believe UM has a world famous academic reputation. I am an adjunct clinical faculty for the university, and I work with students from all over the world. Nearly all of the international students I train choose Michigan because of their academic reputation.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:51 AM ^
Unfortunately, this is something that is pretty much a standard these days at almost every institution, including Harvard and Yale. A recent report stated that legacy, staff children, and athletics account for over 50% of incoming class at highly competitive institutions like Ivy league schools.
I think this is grossly unfair and would love to see it change.
December 13th, 2021 at 2:56 PM ^
Is it possible to get a link or some type of a more concrete title to that report? I'd like to read it. Thanks.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:59 AM ^
The issue with accepting transfers isn't bending on their GPAs. They will, like they do for incoming freshmen athletes. They make exceptions for other applicants too, although not to the same extent.
The problem is in accepting transfer credits that they don't allow for anyone else. That's fundamentally different. It would be similar to offering classes open to athletes only. Don't expect the administration to budge on that.
I wouldn't be shocked if they review the process someday and make it easier for everyone to get their credits transferred in. Michigan does seem to be an outlier in making that as difficult as they do.
December 13th, 2021 at 12:19 PM ^
Maybe because as transfers they are legal adults, and if they are continuing to half ass school then its expected it will continue.... whereas incoming freshmen were mostly minors while at home, and there is a better chance they will be made to do the work.
December 13th, 2021 at 1:04 PM ^
This discussion is about the class itself not qualifying for credits, not how the student did in the class. Kid could have straight A's and 15 of 16 classes don't qualify for credits based on whatever standard U of M has for curriculum.
December 13th, 2021 at 1:46 PM ^
Transfer credit is based on whether Michigan curriculum standards are met by a school as well as the student's academic record in applying for entrance into a particular university program or school. Generally speaking, it would be easier for a student to transfer into Michigan than seeking competitive entry for admission based on high school academic achievement. And that's because there would be a collegiate record of work to assess beside high school achievement.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:37 AM ^
I wholeheartedly agree. I would rather it cost us wins in football (not that I think it does) than to change the transfer credit policy solely for football players.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:38 AM ^
Alumnus*
If going the sanctimonious route, at least pull off the grammar.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:46 AM ^
*Alum* would also have been acceptable, Alex, although it is considered more informal, thus disrupting the sanctimony.
December 13th, 2021 at 12:15 PM ^
Guys relax, signing day is Wednesday
December 13th, 2021 at 12:09 PM ^
The U of M takes in ~1200 transfer students per year.
3/4 of those come from 4 year institutions, 1/4 from 2 year.
Having 5 or 10 of those 1200 also playing football probably wouldn't water down our academic standards.
December 13th, 2021 at 12:42 PM ^
Takes a deep breath - not necessarily targeting GGV.....
IT IS NOT THAT THE SCHOOL OR AD WILL NOT ACCEPT TRANSFERS. IT IS THAT THE UM POLICY IS VERY STRICT REGARDING TRANSFER CREDITS. It can be done but you almost have to select your classes at your previous school specifically with an eye on how they will transfer at UM. (This is probably much easier from UM Flint or Dearborn and possibly the Community College system in MI - where I suspect most of those 1200 you cite come from..)
Shea Patterson reportedly lost as much a full year's worth of credits to come to M. I would suspect that the NCAA's academic progress rate for athletes (need X credits or X% toward graduation based on time enrolled I believe) could cause certain players to have eligibility issues.
TLDR - This will not change until M alters its transfer for ALL students. Until then it will be difficult for players to transfer to M unless they have very few credits to transfer (i.e. Frosh or Soph.) OR as Grad transfers which is essentially re-admission to UM.
PS - related (?) -FYI M is NOT playing at MSU next year - the schedule just hasn't been updated
December 13th, 2021 at 1:08 PM ^
Yeah that has to do with the Michigan Transfer Agreement.
If you take core classes at almost any in-state school, community college, MAC, MSU or otherwise, they 100% transfer.
If you take the same classes at an out of state school, MAC (other than EMU, CMU and WMU), PAC12, wherever...they may not transfer (other than as general credits).
Seems arbitrary.
December 13th, 2021 at 2:22 PM ^
State of Michigan law requires that any public institution must accept all core classes from any other Michigan public institution.
December 13th, 2021 at 2:29 PM ^
https://www.mitransfer.org/michigan-transfer-agreement
The U of M, in the same spirit to the state agreement, could put together a similar B1G Transfer Agreement, MAC Transfer Agreement and/or Alliance Transfer Agreement. Wouldn't take much time or effort from the U of M and would greatly improve transfer recruiting.
After all, why shouldn't the same classes that would transfer from EMU or WCC not also transfer from Toledo, Wisconsin or UCLA?
December 13th, 2021 at 1:05 PM ^
The best part of this comment is that current admissions decisions aren't actually remotely the problem with Michigan getting transfers. Beyond the fact that Michigan's transfer credits, while somewhat strict, are not out of line with many major universities, the acceptance of credits has no bearing at all on the admissions decision.
Michigan can absolutely be a player in the transfer portal, because their academic standards are not some crazy barrier other schools don't have to deal with and the bright side of that is that it doesn't require any policies to change!
December 13th, 2021 at 5:30 PM ^
As a Michigan grad, I would think you would be intelligent enough to know if a couple football players a year skirt the transfer rules, it’s not going to hurt the academic standing of the university or devalue your degree.
December 13th, 2021 at 9:39 PM ^
Princeton is another fine academic institution, maybe we can compete with them. We need to level the playing field to compete with Ohio on a year in year out basis.
December 13th, 2021 at 9:51 PM ^
Having worked with and had both Princeton and Michigan alums on my staff? I can unbiasedly say that the Michigan alums were the better teammates and direct reports: more practical, more "grounded", better goal and task focused.
;-)
December 13th, 2021 at 11:43 AM ^
Quick, can a few more people with no real knowledge of what the actual process is weigh in?
December 13th, 2021 at 11:51 AM ^
challenge accepted, as usual.
December 13th, 2021 at 12:57 PM ^
Acme Petard, hoisted by. Now I know what the coyote felt like.
December 13th, 2021 at 12:52 PM ^
Looks like it's my turn to speak.
I appreciate any opportunity to give my unsolicited opinion on a subject i have no actual knowledge of.
At the end of the day, if you ask me (which I believe you just did) it really comes down to two things.
The first being the ability to count to two when making a list comprising of two items. And the second being the ability to talk in circles while appearing to know what you're talking about.
December 13th, 2021 at 3:26 PM ^
The transfers start by dipping their arms in the pudding. As is tradition.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:43 AM ^
Well, I thought by your topic description that you had come up with a novel plan to help with bringing in transfers. But alas, it was not to be.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:47 AM ^
I'm a U-M grad and support maintaining the current academic standards for athletes, but I'm far from convinced that U-M's longstanding policy that makes transferring to Michigan unusually difficult for all prospective students is much more than a tactic to maximize incoming tuition dollars.
Way back in the mid-1970s a close friend of mine transferred into U-M from the University of Toledo, with the goal of eventually getting into U-M's grad program in computing sciences. To his dismay U-M refused to accept a bunch of credits from U-T, and he had to spend a buttload of money taking courses that didn't really impact his computing sciences credentials.
Eventually he completed grad school at U-M in the early '80s and immediately got a job with a fast-growing software company out in the Seattle area, and about 20 years ago retired as a legit Microsoft millionaire. I doubt he contributes much to U-M, though.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:52 AM ^
just like everything
it's all about the money for the school.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:53 AM ^
Yes, the transfer system at UofM is broken, luckily I stayed all 4 years so I did not have to deal with it, but many friends of mine were really screwed by it.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:56 AM ^
This is not because they want to make more money. This is because they are a state institution and they expect many transfer students from other in-state schools every year. Because of that they have to set fairly high standard so that the students are taking equivalent courses in those other in-state schools.
If UM was a private institution, none of this would matter because at that point, they would care more about the revenue.
December 13th, 2021 at 12:05 PM ^
I'd love to see exactly what is the typical difference between intro level courses at a school like Tennessee and U of M. Do you know? Before I put a stake in the ground, I'd like to know what is different. I'm assuming for grad school acceptance, this difference doesn't matter.
December 13th, 2021 at 12:16 PM ^
I think that later in the program it definitely matters, but I can't imagine there's not much difference in psychology 101 or math 101 from any big university program.
December 13th, 2021 at 12:27 PM ^
Took Calc 1 at Michigan, and for kicks my buddy looked up what Calc 1 at MSU was like.. He said it was basically pre calc. Take that for what it is worth.
December 13th, 2021 at 6:17 PM ^
Bite your tongue! If that were true they could let just anyone transfer in from anywhere!
Now you've devalued a University of Michigan degree! Where's the exclusivity?!
December 13th, 2021 at 12:14 PM ^
ditto -- I had a friend who tried to transfer to Michigan from Michigan Tech and they basically told him that he'd have to re-do everything at UM and start over college from scratch.
I understand that Michigan tries to uphold academic integrity, but to not allow 15 out of 16 gen-ed classes to transfer over seems nothing more than a money grab.
December 15th, 2021 at 4:32 AM ^
Well I made that same transfer in 1976 as a mechanical engineering student. My 2 years at MTU transferred to 2.5 years at M. But I suppose it largely depended on the program. No Advance placement credits in either cases. I had friends at MTU in the technology program that would not get transfers credits to an engineering program. The comment made earlier about matching up courses directly was accurate in my situation. As a side bar for me I thought I received a better basic undergrad education from MTU as there was way less drama from professors who thought it was beneath them to take questions from undergrads. But it made you prepare way better for the method these guys gave help. If you were lost on something you were mostly screwed.
I had one instructor interrupt our final exam and offer “who will take a B on this exam” about 30 minutes into a 3 hour exam. One guy took him up on it. He was not the only drama guy but was the best at it.
December 13th, 2021 at 11:56 AM ^
I believe 9 times out of 10 if a post starts out with a question it's not going to go well.
December 13th, 2021 at 12:02 PM ^
I hope Virginia center has the credits to transfer, I think he would be a good fit and would bridge the gap between the young inexperience OL who could play center in the future.
December 13th, 2021 at 12:06 PM ^
He’s a grad transfer so no issues with credits.
December 13th, 2021 at 12:09 PM ^
December 13th, 2021 at 12:45 PM ^
No thanks.
December 13th, 2021 at 12:11 PM ^
As an alum I would love if they made transferring easier!