If Dantonio retires, what’s an honest assessment of his legacy?
So now that Spartan fans are giving MD the Brady Hoke treatment and want him run out of town immediately, it’s a good time to assess his legacy.
A very interesting career. Kind of blah in the beginning and end years, with a dominant 6 year stretch in the middle. He took advantage of UM and Penn St being down, but still deserves credit for getting guys to play above their recruiting rankings. I think what will hurt him the most is that it looks like the program is in worse shape now then when he took it over.
In terms of how he performed vs UM, 8-5 is probably better than any MSU coach will ever hope to achieve again. But I think he was given a little too much credit for his success vs Michigan. He went 6-1 vs Hoke and Rich Rod. A lot of teams beat Hoke and Rich Rod on the regular. He was very fortunate not to be 0-6 vs Carr/Harbaugh.
Overall, the past 4 years have made his comments about pride coming before the fall a little ironic. A man who was a god in East Lansing is now talked about like we talked about Brady Hoke, an embarrassment. And at least Hoke never had the ongoing string of off field controversies like Dantonio has had. I think he goes down as a coach who had a very strong 6 year run, way overachieved in some fortunate circumstances, and leaves a reputation as being a lax disciplinarian with teams that embrace thuggery. Not exactly statue worthy in my opinion. What’s your take?
November 17th, 2019 at 10:02 PM ^
Won a lot of games while sacrificing integrity. He let a lot of garbage happen within his program that has brought him to this point.
He probably thinks getting shut out and embarrassed by Bama in the playoff was worth it tho.
November 17th, 2019 at 10:14 PM ^
Best MSU coach ever, but still a shit. Has anyone watched that Divided We Stand doc? It was mostly highlight of Michigan losing in football and a couple in wins in basketball, but how the rivalry is pretty equal now. It was decent, could have been more in depth.
November 17th, 2019 at 10:14 PM ^
Kinda OT, but I just finished watching the "Divided We Stand" documentary. What a Sparty suck-fest that was...... A waste of an hour I can never recover. And yeah, D'linguini is an asshole. I hope he stays at least another year so Michigan can beat his ass again
November 17th, 2019 at 10:21 PM ^
You didn't like watching all the State wins in football?
November 17th, 2019 at 10:15 PM ^
What's in the Divided We Stand documentary is a big part of the legacy....but all of the "issues" surrounding the program are as well. I can't put a percentage on these two elements without my personal bias trickling in but I will think of both as I consider his legacy.
November 17th, 2019 at 10:19 PM ^
I don't know enough about what he actually did or did not do about the non-football stuff. I'll leave that to those that do. I suspect it was pretty shady, but I know I am too much of a homer to be objective.
But as far as football, I liked how he was always able to get his players to play their best when it counted, against their bitter hated rivals.
I wish we could do that.
November 17th, 2019 at 10:20 PM ^
A pretty good coach. I wouldnt say his teams were ever "dominant". Not that easy to turn the "#2" program in the state of Michigan into a power, and yet they had a long run as a top team in the Big Ten.
Thought he was a jackass about the Michigan thing, and glad to see him get his... but I don't think you can deny he's been a pretty good coach, at least.
November 17th, 2019 at 10:23 PM ^
Please please stay and take your justice Dantonio. Don’t be a coward.
November 17th, 2019 at 10:25 PM ^
His greatest crime is that somehow convinced Sparty fans that "he's a man of integrity," as one RCBM poster put it. They view him as a paragon of virtue. How messed up is that?
November 17th, 2019 at 10:29 PM ^
Very good coach for MSU standards He had some very good success and made their program relevant for a period of time. Now they have come full circle and are back where they belong. Hope they enjoyed it while it lasted
November 17th, 2019 at 10:29 PM ^
An honest assessment is I don't give a rat's ass what that dickhead's legacy is.
November 17th, 2019 at 10:33 PM ^
What he did at Cincinnati from 2004-2006 is part of his legacy too. Brian Kelly was the one who got UC to the Orange and Sugar Bowls in 2008-2009, but Dantonio absolutely laid the foundation.
I'm not kidding when I say this - the best Bowl game UC played in the 40 years prior to Dantonio arriving was the MOTOR CITY Bowl! He built a foundation which had them playing in BCS Bowls 5 years later!
Now, some may say "eh, only played in BCS Bowls because of a weak Big East." Fine, but that's a diminishing comment. His accomplishments at UC were still pretty darn good.
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As for MSU, 2011-2015 was his peak, and this is impressive:
MSU played in 3 of the first 5 B1G Championship games, winning 2 of them.
One may argue that he took advantage of various issues that U-M/PSU had in the early 2010s. And that's not completely wrong. But OSU didn't have any issues then. And MSU still went 2-1 against OSU, the dominant B1G team of the era, from 2013-2015.
MSU played in a Rose Bowl plus 2 NYD6 Bowls, 1 of them a playoff game, from 2013-2015.
Whether you like him or not personally, that's a very good resume. Combine his accomplishments at UC and MSU, and he'll go down as a rather good head coach.
November 18th, 2019 at 12:38 AM ^
I'm not sure I count Cincinnati in his legacy, especially at MSU. He was only at Cincinnati for 3 years and was a .500 coach there. It was a .500 program before he got there as Rick Minter did a decent job building up the program for several years so it is not like he built the program for Brian Kelly. And moving the program from CUSA to the Big East probably led to the ability to recruit better players so it is hard to quantify that part too.
Dantonio never won a league title at Cincinnati. Minter did. Kelly did.
Also OSU didn't have any issues? Are you forgetting that Jim Tressel got fired in 2011? And Bielema left Wisconsin out of the blue in 2012 after winning 3 straight Big Ten titles. Bielema's 7-year run at Wisconsin probably matches or comes close to what Dantonio accomplished at MSU.
November 18th, 2019 at 3:04 PM ^
I always forget that Minter and UC did win (via a 3-way tie) C-USA in 2002. Rare that one can win a conference with a 7-6 overall record, but it happened!
So that does count - but Minter still got fired 1 year later and then Dantonio had to pick up from that, concurrent with moving to a tougher conference.
I'll put Dantonio's 3 years in the Queen City in that context. Bearcat fans appreciate the guy - I've had more than one UC fan say to me that they actually appreciate Dantonio more than Kelly.
As for OSU, sure Tressel got fired. That caused 2011 to be a mess in Columbus. I didn't count MSU's 2011 win over OSU in my tally. Besides, MSU wasn't in OSU's division then anyway. MSU won the Legends division in 2011 fair and square, and then by their 2013 game, Urban had the Buckeyes operating at Death Star like efficiency.
People forget this stat: Urban was actually 24-0 (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) at OSU prior to their loss to MSU in Indianapolis.
November 18th, 2019 at 1:43 AM ^
It’s a good resume if you stop right there. He didn’t though. Good resumes don’t include 3-9 records and they especially don’t include a 4 year stretch with a losing B10 record. Going into 2020, he’s guaranteed to have a losing B10 record since 2016, even if he wins his last 2 games this year. A good resume means you look at the entire thing, not just a 4 year stretch of your choosing.
If you look at his overall resume at MSU, it’s meh. In the 5 years from 2010-2015, he was 65-16 with a 39-9 B10 record (with a losing B10 season sandwiched in the middle). That’s pretty awesome. In his other 7 years there, he is 46-41 with a 28-30 B10 record. He has been pretty mediocre for most of his time in EL. No one remembers it though because they have been so shitty for so long, of course everyone will remember when he takes them somewhere no other coach has taken them
November 17th, 2019 at 10:35 PM ^
- Asshole
- Decent coach who took advantage of subpar UM coaches
- Asshole
November 17th, 2019 at 10:44 PM ^
Opportunistic, good at selling victimhood mentality to impressionable young people, poor at teaching young men about accountability, good at poor weather games, kirk cousins.
November 17th, 2019 at 11:18 PM ^
From what I read he rivals Duffy Daughtery. That is great company. For State he is clearly one of their top two coaches and deserves the credit.
November 17th, 2019 at 11:25 PM ^
Who the f*** cares.
November 17th, 2019 at 11:27 PM ^
LOL
"An honest assessment"
on a Michigan blog.
Definitely tainted, in fact, smeared. The last couple years probably attributed to all the trouble he allowed to fester there. I remember Colin Cowherd a few years ago saying something about the "kind of player" Michigan State recruits--bordering of course on racism, but still, nevertheless true--troubled players who they give chances to and BITTEN in the arse by them.
No surprise. Some of these guys take chances to build a program and the results are mixed at best.
November 17th, 2019 at 11:31 PM ^
The 2008 team returned 8 starters on defense with a solid D Line. The O would have had Mallet, 2 NFL WRs and a host of talent. 9-3 at least if Carr had stayed on for one more.
RR was a horrible coach. He tore down the roster and put in a system which it was incapable of playing well.
For some reason...people look at Football as Offensive and Defense teams being independent of each other.
Well the fact is that both squads are dependent on each other for wins. That 2008 team could barely more the ball out of their own end and turned the ball over often. The Defense was put in bad situations time and time again.
November 17th, 2019 at 11:36 PM ^
A great coach in his prime. An unbearable hypocrite and generally a terrible person. Perfect fit for MSU and in a way, the perfect villain in a rivalry.
The longer he stays, the more the positive part of his legacy will diminish. It's exceedingly unlikely he will do anything to lessen those negative aspects.
November 18th, 2019 at 12:01 AM ^
Better football coach than they've had in a long time, but a terrible, horrible person.
November 18th, 2019 at 12:21 AM ^
His legacy is what became of Malik McDowell and others entrusted in his care and whose futures were sacrificed in the name of a few football victories. If the purpose of college football is to build character then Mork went 3-9.
November 18th, 2019 at 12:22 AM ^
Dantonio is a good coach. I think they'll be sorry if they lose him.
November 18th, 2019 at 12:32 AM ^
A man of despicable moral fiber took advantage of the confluence of two things: 1) primary competition repeatedly blowing up it's program and 2) the outside world not caring at all what happens at MSU. Since those two paradigms shifted, his ability to run a program without huge unearned advantages is laid bare. It's basically the same as any average P5 coach.
November 18th, 2019 at 12:33 AM ^
He took advantage of recruiting when Michigan was in an era of chaos going through coach after coach. He'll be the most successful coach that MSU has had in quite awhile and he did it with mediocre recruiting at times.
That said he's a terrible person and I look forward to MSU going back to the days of mediocrity! Hallelujah!
November 18th, 2019 at 1:34 AM ^
He got several recruits from Michigan to go to State, but he never dominated recruiting on a national level. The last two games are solidifying UM as the place to be in Michigan. Too much turmoil in the MSU team and if I were a recruit, I'd go elsewhere.
November 18th, 2019 at 12:42 AM ^
I will always remember him as a fucking asshole.
November 18th, 2019 at 1:27 AM ^
He’s a douchebag
November 18th, 2019 at 1:29 AM ^
He is a damn good coach. At no point did he ever have top recruiting classes but made it happen. If anything, that was his sore point: not capitalizing on the success of his teams in the recruiting game.
November 18th, 2019 at 1:53 AM ^
Pardon my French, but Dantini has always been an asshole. The bandwagon MSU “fans” loved his schtick when they were winning. Now that things are bad the fans are tired of his antics. He has to be one of the luckiest coaches in the history of football, college or professional.
November 18th, 2019 at 2:00 AM ^
He can go fuck himself
November 18th, 2019 at 2:25 AM ^
Tell them his name
November 18th, 2019 at 3:20 AM ^
He was a pest to OSU, only B1G coach to beat Urban more than once, and I will forever hate that 2015 Sparty team that kept OSU out of the playoffs. Sparty is only a spoiler and I hope it fades back to mediocrity.
November 18th, 2019 at 4:58 AM ^
A coach who got the most out of his players. If he could have gotten the players Michigan or PSU does he would have won a natty.
November 18th, 2019 at 6:18 AM ^
Decent coach, shit human being.
November 18th, 2019 at 6:44 AM ^
Can't deny his championships. Still fair to point out that the dropped punt and a five turnover game with our backup QB (not to mention coaching the majority of his rivalry games against RichRod, who won a total of SIX conference games in three seasons (!!!), plus Hoke) epitomized the kind of luck he had vs his rival. In contrast, our luck vs OSU includes the screw job by the officials in 2016 and playing (or finishing) the OSU game without our starting QB every single year for a decade straight.
November 18th, 2019 at 6:50 AM ^
Solid on field legacy. Sordid off field legacy.
November 18th, 2019 at 6:50 AM ^
He capitalized on the opportunities that were there when Michigan and PSU were down. I think that deserves some credit as it’s not a given. He did pull off some crazy ass wins against OSU. He also deserves some credit for that although it’s hard to tell if MSU was that good or OSU was sleepwalking. The great 6 year stretch will just be a flash in the pan soon, if it isn’t already. Some things will never change and one of those is MSU will always be MSU.
Oh, he for sure gets credit for his B1G championships and playoff appearance. But again, the B1G was not the powerhouse it is now and he got smoked in the playoff to a point that it barely counts. Lol.
November 18th, 2019 at 6:52 AM ^
Build his statue. He has more wins than any coach in MSU history. He was the perfect coach for them. I hate to see him leave because I think he is on the down slide, but I also hope he can go out as a retirement and not being fired.
He's a dick, but he's their dick and should be revered by their fan base.
November 18th, 2019 at 6:54 AM ^
He’s been a phenomenal coach. I think If we all take the maize colored glasses off, we can see that he took his team to the playoffs, won 2 big ten championships in the most difficult division, and has a winning record against their greatest rival.
You can’t deny his performance and it goes beyond our misfortune of RR and Hoke.
November 18th, 2019 at 1:04 PM ^
He won the East once.
He won the Legends twice.
November 18th, 2019 at 7:03 AM ^
He has been the absolute perfect Sparty coach. Loathes Michigan plus has had success against them - has used those two things in totally galvanizing the fan base. Good coach who fell into the luckiest run in the modern era of B1G football. Had a five year run that will forever be held up as the glory days of MSU football. I happen to think he is disingenuous and two faced personally but that sells well in CFB when you win. When you don’t, it’s a bad look.
November 18th, 2019 at 7:40 AM ^
He'll be remembered as a good coach, but not a great one. Dantonio's reputation was built on a weaker conference that once corrected, revealed how ordinary a coach he is, actually. For me, the fact that during his entire tenure, no other bigger programs came calling to try and lure him away, says all that needs to be said about his quality as a coach. Lots of jobs have come available in his time; USC, Texas, Florida, Florida State, Tennessee, Ohio State, Georgia, LSU, Notre Dame, and so on and Dantonio's name never even came up as a candidate to take over; not he was approached and he rebuffed the overture; never considered.
Historically, there has only been room in the state of Michigan for one football team to be good and that's been dictated by how well Michigan manages it's program. Michigan is coached by Bump Elliot or Brady Hoke, MSU is ascendant. Michigan is coached by Bo Schembechler or Jim Harbaugh, MSU recedes. MSU is always the passive benefactor of this dynamic, subject to the competence of Michigan. Never has this been more definitively demonstrated than the Dantonio era. Dantonio's program went from it's zenith to collapsing in just 2 seasons solely because Jim Harbaugh came in and righted the ship at Michigan.
November 18th, 2019 at 8:27 AM ^
There is a difference between the coach and the man.
As a coach he performed well over expectations for what’s possible at State. 2nd only to Daugherty. Much better than Saban could do up there.
As a man, who is responsible for developing the character of boys as they become responsible men, he has failed completely.
November 18th, 2019 at 9:39 AM ^
michigan state has historically only been meaningfully sucessful by taking advantage of opportunities offered from outside the program. their heyday of the 50s (and, to a lesser extent, in the mid-60s) was fueled in no small part by the migration of african-american players from the south, unable to play for s.e.c. schools that were keeping them off the field. the latest run in east lansing occurred when michigan spent a decade in the wilderness as the bo / mo / lloyd line ended.
in that regard, by being able to take advantage of the vacuum of power in the state of michigan, he was a very, very good coach for michigan state. not every coach is capable of doing that (one need only look at either tallahassee or coral gables or los angeles to see current examples). he also recognized that, with michigan's massive inherent advantages, he needed to instill an edge, and he did so both on the field (a hyper-aggressive defensive approach) and off (by recruiting players with a chip on their shoulders, or worse). in short - while he bristled at "little brother," he truly loved being a disrespected underdog and used it to fuel the program.
when it worked, it really worked - but it's an inherently unsustainable approach. at a certain point he needed 5-stars with an inferiority complex as big as his, and there aren't that enough guys like that to fuel a program long-term. a good coach with more-talented players will eventually get over, which is what is happening right now.
in short - a very good coach for the time and the place
November 18th, 2019 at 9:48 AM ^
A smug POS but a guy who when he was in his heyday, he could coach with the best of them. Beat Meyer twice, neither game being at home, and that’s two more times that Michigan can say it beat the guy.
He emphasized that rivalry with Michigan as much as anyone in the history of MSU ever has. If he retires after this season, I sure as hell won’t miss him.
November 18th, 2019 at 10:20 AM ^
Best coach in modern MSU history. He feasted on a down Michigan, but at the same time that doesn’t take away his B1G titles, playoff appearance and Rose Bowl victory. His performance as of late has to be apart of his legacy as well though
November 18th, 2019 at 11:12 AM ^
Second best football coach in school history (to Duffy Daugherty). Best of the modern era.
He led them to five 11-win seasons in six years. One of ten teams to make the CFP. Won two Big Ten championships.
I know Michigan fans will have a different perception of him, but I think this is what he'll ultimately be remembered for.