How OSU's national championship impacts Michigan
Also, for those who wished that OSU to lose the game (like me). Imagine how you would feel if we still had Hoke right now. Yikes!
January 13th, 2015 at 1:55 AM ^
I don't think it affects Michigan at all, to be honest.
January 13th, 2015 at 1:56 AM ^
January 13th, 2015 at 1:58 AM ^
January 13th, 2015 at 1:59 AM ^
Hahaha. How so? Other than a slight uptick in recruiting, what is the real negative effect?
January 13th, 2015 at 3:34 AM ^
Guess I'll be That Guy
You just contradicted yourself.
You said no effect.
Then you said 'some effect.'
January 13th, 2015 at 5:54 AM ^
It probably effects us fans more than the teams as we now have to listen to annoying OSU fans even more (I'm sure they contracted a few hundred thousand bandwagoners last night). Really though, they're still OSU with Urban Meyer. Their recruiting may get slightly better but there's really not much room for them to climb
January 13th, 2015 at 8:08 AM ^
They've been getting whomever they have wanted for some time. I was happy to hear they won this morning. I was so so tired of hearing that the Big 10 was terrible and the SEC was the best. We will be able to beat them soon enough. We've been patient for a long time, we can hang in there a bit longer.
Also: disclaimer: I live in Michigan and do not know any Ohio State fans. Now, if that were MSU, I would be singing a different tune.
January 13th, 2015 at 9:29 AM ^
How blind are you? Can you seriously not see how Ohio State winning a national championship may be a bad thing for their arch rival?
January 13th, 2015 at 3:34 AM ^
Ohio State's championship affects Michigan in at least two ways. First, it gets the Big Ten some respect among media, pollsters and future playoff committees. Second, it should serve as another tool Harbaugh can use to motivate his team.
January 13th, 2015 at 1:56 AM ^
Not trying to be redundant but I'm genuinely interested in the boards thoughts on it.
Disclaimer: In absolutely no way am I downplaying what OSU did this season. Meyer and their team deserve whatever praise is thrown their way and I think it's clear they ended the season as the top team in the country, no doubt.
I do have a question/thought that I'd like to run by the MGoBoard: What was the marginal utility of them winning tonight as opposed to finishing as the runner up?
Notre Dame got a ton of exposure in 2012 despite not having a semifinal win and getting blown out, Meyer already had two rings and Cardale Jones was a national unknown a month ago. I don't doubt they see some benefits, especially out of their normal recruiting footprint, but am I completely nuts to think a win tonight might not mean much either way for Michigan, considering Wisconsin/Alabama and everyone already knowing Meyer is an elite coach?
January 13th, 2015 at 2:03 AM ^
we almost had the ideal outcome.
OSU making the playoffs may have pushed the boosters to back JH all the way.
The SEC myth had already been punctured.
This helps nothing. The best outcome would have been them losing tonight.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:09 AM ^
I was rooting against them too, but I'm honestly wondering what tangible benefit OSU got, in regards to Michigan, coming out on top tonight that they hadn't already earned by being in Dallas/being OSU/having Meyer.
I'm trying to look at how this affects Michigan and I'm having a tough time thinking the marginal cost to Michigan was all that big, at least within the normal recruiting grounds. I do think they'll have an easier time outside their normal footprint (and Michigan's) after tonight.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:20 AM ^
how big it is for Urban to be able to flash an Ohio nc ring and tell recruits he's building a machine there.
With the SEC West getting smoked, you could still think, hey, maybe Bama was overrated.
After tonight, there's just no way to say Urban didn't just coach up the best team in the nation.
I'm too young to remember Woody's heyday, but did he have the kind of machine Meyer is about to have going?
It's one thing to say "we at OSU play for national titles," it's another thing to be able to say, "we at OSU *win* national titles.
Fucking TCU. They don't have a freak fucking meltdown against Baylor and we are not sitting here today. I feel sicker than I have ever felt absent alcohol or actual malady.
(I guess underestimate, my initial subject line, works too. I don't know, My brain is broken from this shit.)
January 13th, 2015 at 2:20 AM ^
OSU already gets some of the best recruits in the country. They'll see a marginal increase in quality from this, but it won't be much simply because there just isn't that much higher to go.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:22 AM ^
I've just been assuming that recruits already went crazy over Meyer's rings and obviously OSU has big time tradition even without the win tonight.
Maybe a better way to express what I'm thinking would be to say the marginal benefit for MSU would be a lot bigger than for OSU. They're already a blue blood so the needle wouldn't move as much as it would for a program without the tradition OSU has and the rings Meyer already won.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:33 AM ^
(about Sparty), but this still sucks.
Meyer already recruited national 5 star talent, I just fear that now they're going to be beating down his door.
Still, we're going to be pretty fucking hungry, and I'm more than interested to se what JH can do.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:40 AM ^
in my first 25 years of sports consciousness.
That was 25 years to develop a picture of how this all was supposed to go.
It can be hard for a brain to adapt to a broken paradigm.
January 13th, 2015 at 8:31 AM ^
80's clothes are back in. What goes around, comes around. We'll be good again soon enough. And they will be down again someday. That's how life works. Even Duke bball is down once in a while.
January 13th, 2015 at 12:49 PM ^
and K bowed out with "back problems"
But thanks for cheering me up.
January 13th, 2015 at 6:54 AM ^
Tangible benefit Next year is that Ohio St. is going to get whatever recruit they want. Harbaugh and the gang have experience dealing with the USC recruiting Death Star and in playing the Oregon type offense. Michigan will be fine in the long run but the next couple of years are probably going to suck
January 13th, 2015 at 6:05 AM ^
I think it actually benefits both Michigan and the Big10 from a perception tool. The spin is now that you have 3 teams win on Jan 1st and Meyer cements his elite status by winning #3.
Now the bar is that if you win the Big10 East especially, you are going to be assumed to be pretty damn good, and a most likely shoe-in to the playoff if you can win the Big10 Championship with no more than 1 loss.
It is going to help with conference percpetion and get players to consider the Big10 instead of the SEC...going to Michigan instead of Auburn/Alabama/Georgia/FSU is now going to be a "cool" thing to do.
OSU is going to get it's recruits, always has and always will. The hope at this point is that the perception that the SEC is the "dominant" conference took a big hit with the bowls, and with the fact FSU and now OSU have won back to back NC's.
Now Michigan needs to capitalize on Harbaugh's rock star coaching status and develop a winning mentality during game-day and actually execute and be tough and win vs talk about winning and being tough and great weeks of practice and clapping.
January 13th, 2015 at 7:40 AM ^
That's all I was going to say...recruiting and the idea that Meyer/B1G can beat Saban/SEC. I hate to say it, but I'd rather have the whole B1G be down, then OSU be up (unless that means UM is also up with OSU). But, if we're down, as we currently are, I'd rather the whole perception of the conference be down as well. I want UM to be the ones to beat down the SEC, not OSU. I don't want any positive publicity for OSU in any way as long as they are better than UM. It would be one thing if we are trading wins and conference titles with OSU and it was an even matchup. But, we they are the only ones winning them and UM is down I don't want any success for OSU. It just makes it that much higher of a mountain to climb to ever be better than them. And, that NC just makes it harder for UM to go up against top recruiting battles with OSU.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:01 AM ^
straight motivation for the ones who want to be here. Michigan is turning over a new leaf. Harbaugh can promise, well, now I am really drunk and getting ready to go to bed, but um Michigan.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:02 AM ^
Statistics for the logical. Michigan will get better, OSu won't.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:03 AM ^
But, it's also not the disaster that a lot of people fear and the reason for that is easy: Harbaugh. He has the clout to go to recruits and say, "I'm here to kill the king, join me" and be believable. I think that with any other coach it would be a disaster. With Harbaugh, it might help with California recruiting (slightly). "Come play for me and beat the champs on national television."
January 13th, 2015 at 2:04 AM ^
but as I said in another thread, the thought that Hoke was being evaluated on how we performed against fucking Maryland, that is chilling.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:08 AM ^
Idk how it affects Michigan. I don't think it does other than for posterboard material.
The fact that Dave Brandon thought that Brady Hoke was national championship caliber makes me shudder.
Then I think of Harbaugh's hiring and breath a sigh of relief.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:13 AM ^
January 13th, 2015 at 2:22 AM ^
and it took a special kind of arrogance to believe that half ass shit was going to fly.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:16 AM ^
First we tried to bash OSU and go all "THIS CAN'T BE LEGAL" when LeBron gave the team a bunch of headphones. There was also the "THOSE HEADPHONES SUCK!" crowd who wanted to act like college kids wear Beats for the quality.
Then we got all butthurt when MSU took out a full page ad in a Dallas newspaper.
Now tonight.
We've officially become little brother. And NOT because OSU won a national championship. But because of how so many people have reacted all week.
Thank you Jim Harbaugh, thank you for saving us.
We sound like a bunch of MSU fans in the Carr era. It hurts my heart.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:21 AM ^
January 13th, 2015 at 2:21 AM ^
OSU's victory definitely helps sober up our Michigan fanbase that has been drunk on Harbaugh Kool Aid for the last few weeks, me included.
January 13th, 2015 at 2:25 AM ^
Kool Aid generally describes irrational optimism. I don't see anything irrational about optimism over Harbaugh.
January 13th, 2015 at 3:02 AM ^
Optimism isn't irrational
The "predictions" are...
January 13th, 2015 at 2:27 AM ^
January 13th, 2015 at 7:47 AM ^
January 13th, 2015 at 2:50 AM ^
does this really change anything? i dont come out of this game feeling any differently than i did since we hired harbaugh.
heres how i see it. osu is a monster. but is that something that suddenly happened or is it something we already knew since 2012? they went unbeaten in his first season, went unbeaten in the regular season his second season (lost both post season games and ate some pizza). then they lost one game this year, beat alabama, beat oregon and got some rings. but was this osu team that much better than 2013 or 2012? they have been a very good team for 3 years. they didnt suddenly become a good team since they now have a ring to prove it. they were already a good team and some sanctions are the only thing sitting between them and 2 out of 3 national championships (they wouldve rocked notre dame).
that being said, with hoke as our head coach, have we been overwhelmed by meyer's buckeyes? ...i have to say no. we lost a close one in the shoe in 2012. lost a true coin flip game in the big house in 2013 (during a season that michigan was playing horribly anyway). and then we played them kinda close in their stadium again until we eventuall gave way and lost. sure, you can look at those games and say "0-3", but when you look at how bad we were against some awful team around the big ten, and then how closely we played ohio, i think its hard to say ohio is on some unreachable level. we almost beat them with a crippled devin gardner throwing pass after pass to jeremy gallon. honestly, we were one completed pass away from knocking them off. i know it seems hard to believe that we can compete with a team that beat bama and oregon, but considering the massive upgrade we just got in the coaching staff, i think we can compete, at minimum.
congrats ohio state. im honestly happy for the win. they deserve after the season they had and its great for the big ten and all that. now its time to go to work.
January 13th, 2015 at 4:11 AM ^
Yes. This year's team beats 2012 by 30 points. And last year's defense gave up 500 yards like 6 straight games or something insane. This team was better than both. Significantly.
January 13th, 2015 at 4:29 AM ^
you really think so?
i dont mean it as a slight toward this years team in any way at all. i just think that they have been a good team for 3 years now. 2012 shouldve been a national championship team.
this years team lost 2 QBs, lost carlos hyde, corey linsley (who will be playing for an NFC title next weekend), ryan shazier, bradley roby, jack mewhort, philly brown, andrew norwell...
all those guys are now NFL starters, as rookies. that is damn impressive. and braxton miller was lost, and jt barrett was lost (for the 3 biggest games).
you really think that this great team is a sudden occurence?
they have been a great team for 3 years
January 13th, 2015 at 6:28 AM ^
January 13th, 2015 at 10:44 AM ^
thanks
January 13th, 2015 at 3:19 AM ^
Honest answer - it will help OSU v UM in direct recruitment of some players they are both after. Until Harbaugh gets Michigan to a playoff. Which he can do even with that issue.
It will help Michigan in an ancillary way as it shows recruits you can get to the top of the mountain of the entire NCAA in the Big 10. I just wish it had been Iowa or something to show it (I know, Iowa would never show it but just saying in theory). But you can now make the case you don't have to be in the SEC or the south (FSU) to win it all. Which has become stamped into the national psyche the past decade. Ex USC.
Michigan needs to think bigger -- they were still in the "Big 10 is good enough" mode under Brady Hoke. Even though it was a pipe dream for a coach of his calibar. Urban doesnt give crap about winning the Big 10 other than its a necessity to win NCs. We have a coach who thinks like that too. And bless Bo but we probably have not had a coach of that mindset since Yost. The conference has to be thought of as nothing but a stepping stone - Urban does that.
January 13th, 2015 at 3:38 AM ^
i agree with almost all of that.
not that it matters too much, but Bo was coaching in an era when winning a national championship was simply being the top team voted on. it had nothing to do with winning an actual title game.
in that day, saying that your goal was to win the big ten and win the rose bowl was basically saying that you wanted to win every game and compete for a national title. but in the end, the only thing those teams could control were the games they played. it was almost as if Bo was saying "win the rose bowl and you should be in the national championship conversation" which was really the best he could guarantee.
now, winning the big ten is a part of making the playoffs, which is part of winning a national title....which is the ultimate goal...
honestly, it still wouldnt be horrible to say "win the big ten" as your goal, because that means you basically want to make the playoffs, even though your goal should really be to win a national title.
January 13th, 2015 at 4:25 AM ^
That mentality just sounds like an excuse. Bo went what 5-12 in bowl games? 2-8 in Rose Bowls? He couldn't win the big games outside the B1G and even dropped games he had no business losing (a trend which plagued Michigan through the Carr days)
Woody Hayes won championships. Bear Bryant won championships. Even upstart Hurricanes won championships with Schnellenberger, Johnson and Erickson. Joepa won championships. They all did it in the same time span as Bo. 3 of them coached a lot fewer years in college while winning them at the time.
Idk if Yost can even be a fair comparison. Football back then wasn't what football is now. But yes on paper Yost is Bryant/Saban/Meyer-esque.
January 13th, 2015 at 4:35 AM ^
what do you mean its an excuse? i was just explaing the thought process. i didnt say that Bo had some excuse for not winnig a national championship. i was saying that Bo coached in an era where saying "our goal is to win the big ten championship and win the rose bowl" was the equivalent of saying he wanted to go undefeated. those were the games he controlled, were they not? nowhere am i excusing those teams or Bo for not winning a national championship. they never won the big games. that is a fact. im not denying that. but i wasnt even discussing his level of success in those games. i was discussing the thought process behind the way he stated the teams goals. maybe im wrong, im just speculating. but im certainly not making any excuses for anyone
January 13th, 2015 at 5:57 AM ^
To state the obvious, OccaM is sidestepping the fact you included "... and win the Rose Bowl" in describing Bo's goals. That Bo's Michigan teams more often than not failed to achieve the Rose Bowl victory doesn't mean it wasn't the ultimate goal.
It's really pretty damn stupid to suggest that Bo wasn't trying to win the Rose Bowl from day one every season.
January 13th, 2015 at 9:01 AM ^
is geography. OSU will continue to get the cream of the crop in Ohio and we have to recruit elsewhere, at least for a while. We will make inroads in Ohio and get the best in Michigan after a while, but to compete soon, we need to get recruits from long distances. I have no doubt JH will get the best he can out of his recruits which will in time get us the Ohio guys. Staee, in the long run, is odd man out (the odd man being MD).
January 13th, 2015 at 5:15 AM ^
January 13th, 2015 at 9:03 AM ^
But bravo, nonetheless.
January 13th, 2015 at 9:50 AM ^
great Carpenters reference