Gattis getting some interest from Virginia Tech Coaching Boards
November 12th, 2021 at 12:12 AM ^
Let's make a deal.
November 12th, 2021 at 6:52 AM ^
Let him go. John Donovan is rested and available.
November 12th, 2021 at 9:57 AM ^
If Gattis leaves, our new OC will be Matt Weiss. I would not be surprised if he leaves because of the strong connection between Jim and Matt.
November 12th, 2021 at 10:41 AM ^
Honestly, I would be happy for that massblue. People don't know the reason for the improvement on offense hasn't been just been because of Mike Hart. It's been because of Matt Weiss too.
November 12th, 2021 at 1:08 PM ^
I'll take Matt Weiss to OC, thank you very much. He's been successful in everything he's touched in the game if foitball. Madis touch Weiss!!
November 12th, 2021 at 1:58 PM ^
I don't know the full background of Weiss and if/why he's successful in everything he's touched, but why should he be put to OC? Looking through his history, he was an HC assistant from 2009-2011, a Defensive quality coach from 2012 to 2013, added LB for 2014, was the CB coach in 2015, assistant QB coach in '16-'17, asst. WR/fsc in '18, and was the RB coach in '19 '20.
If Gattis leaves, I find it hard to believe Moore would be fine with losing the CO-OC title. I'd like it if we at least hired someone with a bit of play-calling background.
November 12th, 2021 at 7:56 PM ^
Everything will work out if you let it in your heart. Click your heels three times and say that.
November 12th, 2021 at 10:48 AM ^
Excellent. Addition by subtraction.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:21 AM ^
Hmn well that would be an interesting hire. All in all I think that Coach Gattis has proved himself a competent coordinator but I wouldn’t say I’d be heartbroken if he left either. I appreciate that he’s modernized the offense somewhat and he seems to call some damn good games sometimes, while making some seemingly head scratching decisions in others. I think there’s a chance he, Coach Moore and Coach Hart could all really get cooking here in the next couple years if they could stay a cohesive staff, but if a big program wants to give him a head coaching shot, I’m sure we can find another coach of his caliber.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:51 AM ^
It's tough to tell whether he's handcuffed by Harbaugh or if this really is 100% his offense.
Relatedly, the fact that his name rarely ever gets mentioned in other teams' coaching searches means he's either very happy or very mediocre.
November 12th, 2021 at 3:58 AM ^
This is not 100% his offense, but it was before and it sucked.
How is being handcuffed a bad thing? The offense is better than its ever been since he's been here (minus redzone TD conversions).
It terms of total offense, this is the best offense we've EVER had under Harbaugh or Hoke (thus far).
The best Harbaugh offense before this was before Gattis got to Michigan.
I don't understand why people keep thinking Harbaugh is hurting the offense, he literally turned over the keys for 2 years to Josh Gattis and almost got fired over it. Now he's more involved and we're a quarter of bullshit away from undefeated, #3 in the country, and even with that quarter of bullshit the offense is better with his involvement.
Now the obvious caveat is...it has to perform in these last 3 regular season games if it is going to finish the best. But to this point, this is #1. The offense with Harbaugh, Weiss and Moore all supporting Gattis.
November 12th, 2021 at 5:52 AM ^
Red Zone offense would be a lot better if had a fullback... maybe Gattis should've been handcuffed just a bit more :)
November 12th, 2021 at 9:58 AM ^
Or, and I know this is scary and crazy, we could just throw the ball in the red zone. We have been pretty successful when we've lowered ourselves to doing so.
November 12th, 2021 at 11:17 AM ^
I like how you think,Bench Mason underutilized his last 2 years
November 12th, 2021 at 12:09 PM ^
Agreed. And I said it below.
Put Ben Mason and a healthy Ronnie Bell on this team and the redzone offense is better and we are undefeated.
Ben Mason had his COVID year of eligibility. He rightfully went pro. But Mason, getting those short yardage handoffs and Bell's route running and drawing additional attention away from the box? We turn some of those FGs into TDs.
November 12th, 2021 at 6:28 AM ^
To be fair we don't know how "handcuffed" or not Gattis has been since he's been here. I assume some since I'm still not really sure we are seeing a "speed in space" approach to football. The speed we seem to have more of, the space we don't seem to use nearly as much as the "speed in space" tag line implies (does our offense has a single screen play?). This year's team seems to be much more "power at the line" than "speed in space" which certainly smacks of Harbaugh, so I'd guess his influence is being more heavily felt this year than not (as it should be. His job was literally on the line this year).
That said, I'm with you on production. I've been far from blown away by Gattis, and I'm pretty sure he over thinks things in games from time to time. I also think the lack of interest in him from other teams so far has been somewhat telling and I am doubtful VT makes him a serious offer.
November 12th, 2021 at 8:58 AM ^
I just wish we could hit the perimeter more with both quick screens and run plays. It really seems to work for us the few times we use it a game. A couple more jaunts to the outside could help open up the box and lead to a few more big plays inside or outside.
November 12th, 2021 at 11:38 AM ^
Exactly. It feels like UM is one of the only teams not to run screens/draws.
It is very frustrating.
November 12th, 2021 at 7:05 AM ^
The offense is better than its ever been since he's been here (minus redzone TD conversions).
TDs are kind of important.
November 12th, 2021 at 9:11 AM ^
We actually rank VERY high in terms of offensive points per drive.
Michigan is getting 3.24 points per drive.
That compares favorably with Ohio State, Georgia and Alabama.
Odd, I know, given all the talk about how bad our redzone O is. Either we're getting a lot of FGs where these other teams are coming up empty on drives, or we are very good at getting TDs outside the redzone, or maybe we're doing better than we think in comparison to other teams?
November 12th, 2021 at 11:05 AM ^
I’ve been wondering the degree to which Moody’s excellence hurts us in the Red Zone TD metric. Are there some 4th down decisions where other teams would go for it, and ultimately score a TD, that we pass up because 3 points is more of a lock for us than it is for them? Are there some third downs where we’re also more conservative (run/safe pass) because again, 3 points is a lock? In other words, it’s possible that we could get more TDs in the red zone, but at the same time hurt our average points per drive.
Not to say there isn’t room for improvement, and I hope we’re saving some things for late November that will shift a couple of RZ drives from FGs to TDs that day, but like you I question whether there aren’t some things that skew the RZ number a bit.
November 12th, 2021 at 11:28 AM ^
Maybe? But also perhaps the perception of our RZ offense isn't fully in line with reality?
Michigan is ranked #7 in the nation in RZO.
9 games, 45 RZ opportunities resulting in 25 TDs, 17 FGs 42/42=.933
Ohio State is ranked #4 in RZO
9 games, 38 RZ opportunities, 25 TDs, 11 FGs 36/38=.947
So, over the same number of games, we've scored the same number of TDs in the RZ as Ohio State, and also 6 more FGs, but also had 7 more RZ drives.
Few teams have gotten into the RZ as many times as Michigan this season. This might speak to the high probability O we are running so our drives don't crap-out as much, or when they do crap out, we're in FG range rather than being forced to punt?
November 12th, 2021 at 12:06 PM ^
I think we’re saying pretty much the same thing. The complaint about Michigan is not about the total RZ efficiency, but rather the rate TDs are scored in the RZ. I’m saying that it’d be possible for Michigan to score more TD in the RZ if they went for it on 4th down instead of kicking field goals, thus improving the TD/RZ metric, but likely making the Pts/RZ metric worse. Other college teams, because they have generic college kicker as opposed to automatic Jake Moody, might have better TD/RZ numbers because they give themselves more attempts to get a TD, but worse Pts/RZ numbers, because getting to the red zone isn’t worth a baseline three points for them.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:22 PM ^
10-4. Yes, and points per drive mean more than the RZTD metric, yup.
One other consideration, Michigan is ranked #11 in terms of TOP and #53 in plays per game. With our short pass/run, I'd think we'd have fewer drives per game on average than say a pass-happy team. That makes the high number of RZ opportunities we've had that much more interesting.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:10 PM ^
No shit. And with that caveat it's STILL better than the past 2 years. That's the point, lol.
November 12th, 2021 at 7:57 AM ^
"minus red zone TD conversions" Jesus Christ. So a massive part of the offensive success, got it.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:27 PM ^
And even with that it's STILL the best offense since Gattis has been here.
Jesus Christ. That's the point!
November 12th, 2021 at 7:58 AM ^
You lost me here: "..he literally turned over the keys..."
This is a Michigan board. We can do better.
November 12th, 2021 at 8:19 AM ^
Maybe the offensive's playbook are kept in a lock box and it takes a key to open that box? In that case he would literally have to turn over the key.
November 12th, 2021 at 8:45 AM ^
Due to misuse, it literally doesn’t mean what it used to.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally
November 12th, 2021 at 9:02 AM ^
It literally does still mean the same thing. Just because a bunch of people misuse it doesn't mean it doesn't.
I get that English, especially the American version is a living language, and I love that. But words that have a very specific meaning shouldn't change their definitions because people are ignorant.
You'll never be able to decimate a singular object in my world, no matter how many people say it. And I'm even aware it used to mean "a 10th part" of, literally. That hasn't been its use for a very long time.
November 12th, 2021 at 11:55 AM ^
Who's in charge of Merriam Webster these days? They should literally be terminated.
November 12th, 2021 at 10:04 AM ^
I literally died when I read that.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:12 PM ^
What are you saying? He didn't physically hand Josh Gattis the keys to the offense?
Maybe they're locked in the batter's box.
November 12th, 2021 at 8:50 AM ^
This is spot on.
There is nothing in Gattis' background to suggest he has ever done anything with power football. Nothing. His entire resume' is college football with Franklin (wide open at Vandy and PSU), Moorehead (architect of WIDE OPEN offenses at PSU and Oregon), and Mike Locksley (more wide open than Saban has ever been) at Alabama - after Bama switched to the hybrid spread. Look what Locksley runs at Maryland, and then remember that Gattis worked with him. He's only position coached wide receivers.
Running between the tackles with extra OL and 17 TE's is not something Gattis has ever done. But it IS something that Jim Harbaugh has done his entire life. To believe that Gattis, all of a sudden, with no experience whatsoever, has designed and is running a very successful NFL power scheme is ridiculous. This offense has Harbaugh's fingerprints all over it!
I do believe that Gattis is calling the plays, and has a lot of input on play design (the reads, some of the routes, and certainly game plan design). But this is not 'his offense' per se'.
November 12th, 2021 at 9:11 AM ^
It amazes me people cannot figure this out. Offensive coordinators may design and call plays but they do it in conjunction with the scheme and philosophy the head coach wants. Gattis is not doing one thing that has not been reviewed, implemented and approved by the head coach other than possibly some play calls during the game.
It is quite clear they are trying to marry old school philosophies with some (not all) modern ones. It has looked pretty good so far this year but as I write below I am in wait and see mode.
November 12th, 2021 at 9:05 AM ^
I'll withhold judgement till Thanksgiving weekend. If we have another game against OSU that features us consistently snapping the ball between 14-12 on the play clock with a running game clock (moronic no matter the opponent, I can go into further detail if anyone wants) and general refusal to use frippery (RPO's, QB's running more than 5x out of shotgun, etc.) I will probably bash my head off of a table. That has got to be a game where we use absolutely everything at our disposal to try and score 40 points or try to shorten the game as much as possible. We were on our way to 40 against MSU until the turnover bug got us but I also think that was the best QB passing effort I have seen under Harbaugh against a legit opponent. Will the same thing happen against OSU? Time will tell.
November 12th, 2021 at 9:34 AM ^
Every Michigan fan obviously wants us to win the rest of our games, and it would be cathartic to beat OSU for so many reasons, but getting the monkey off of Harbaugh's back and not having to hear ifs and buts, would be [nirvana.]
November 12th, 2021 at 7:55 AM ^
I think this refrain needs to get hashed out once and for all because we’re going to keep saying this for every OC that we employ. Either the OC is going to have complete control of the offense or they know ahead of time JH will have a hand in the play calling and schematics.
BTW a lot of HCs have a say, many times the final say, what plays are run and when. If we’re going to complain about JH having his hand in the cookie jar during crucial game moments, we should also look at what happens throughout the game when he’s not in control as well.
November 12th, 2021 at 8:21 AM ^
The reason that Gattis isn't getting mentioned for HC jobs is Michigan's record since he's been here. He doesn't necessarily get the blame for the team underperforming, but it's his first OC job. They don't have much more to go on. Other schools don't care if he's great or mediocre. If his team hasn't been winning, they aren't going to look at him.
This year may change that. Let's hope his resume starts looking a lot more appealing.
November 12th, 2021 at 9:33 AM ^
I would say, with the players that Michigan has had on offense, if there would've been even one season where the team was putting up OSU numbers or Ole Miss numbers or looked like a Big 12 passing attack, then he would've gotten plenty of offers.
November 12th, 2021 at 9:41 AM ^
Sam Webb and Devin Gardner have talked about on their show that Gattis might be better than we give him credit for. When they go back through games, there is a lot of yards left on the field and missed open receivers down the field. However, at the same time, it's the job of the OC to get the most of and adapt scheme to his personnel
November 12th, 2021 at 10:09 AM ^
Coaches Moore, Hart and Gattis, I’ve always thought were the three most likely to leave if the season went well. Of the three Michigan will need to break out the money cannon to keep Hart and Moore, plus offer a position bump to both as Co-OC’s because Gattis is most likely gone after this season.
November 12th, 2021 at 10:46 AM ^
Moore already is Co OC. The second co OC has to be more passing game focused. It is hard to see how Hart fits that position. Weiss is a much more likely candidate if they were to stay in house.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:21 AM ^
Oh. no. Whatever you do, don’t take him.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:30 AM ^
I'm ready to move on.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:31 AM ^
They can have him.
November 12th, 2021 at 1:13 PM ^
Maybe we can start up a moving truck fund.
November 12th, 2021 at 12:41 AM ^
I actually like Gattis and hope he stays
November 12th, 2021 at 12:45 AM ^
I agree with you. He is getting more from a Harbaugh offense that most OCs have. If he can influence Harbaugh to change, then he might have what it takes to succeed elsewhere. I think coaching continuity going forward should become a focus for Warde.