Detroit Doesn't Get CBI Invite; Pistol Pete's Record Safe
It seems that Detroit Mercy didn't even get an invitation to play in the fleabag CBI tournament, so Antoine Davis will remain three points behind Pete Maravich on the all-time career scoring list. As you know, UDM had expressed an interest to pay the $50,000 it would have cost to play in the tournament, but they never got the chance. Score one for CBI's integrity.
The UDM athletic director said that there's still a chance they will get an opportunity to play in something called the PS8 tournament, which takes place at IMG Academy, but all indications are that the PS8 won't be having a tournament this year. So for now, at least, Pistol Pete's record is safe.
LINK.
March 13th, 2023 at 12:33 PM ^
What’s next? Belding Gus Macker? That record would forever have an asterisk by it given David played 5 years. He had a good run. Move on, young man.
March 13th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
All records have asterisks next to them because the game changes over time. The only directly comparable players are those in their prime at the same time. That's why they play the games. But records are fun, and I don't blame UDM for trying to get one of their players the record, because sports are for fun!
All records have asterisks next to them because the game changes over time.
Bingo. Maravich played in an era where freshman were ineligible, and the three-point line didn't exist.
Per Wikipedia Dale Brown charted Pete’s games and said he would have averaged 57 points a game. Also pointed out that there was no shot clock which would have meant more shots per game.
IWantToBelievedotgif
But that's...that's 13 3 pointers a game
That’s what they came up with.
Maravich did also play at a time when teams took a lot of shots per game (despite no shot clock) and put up high team point totals. There were numerous players every season averaging 30+ ppg. The year after Pistol Pete left college another guy topped 40 ppg to lead the country, the last time that number was reached, but during that era the nations leading scorer was generally in the mid to upper 30s. In comparison there has been ONE guy (Chris Clemens) that has averaged 30 ppg in a season in the last 25 years, although CMU's Marcus Keene just missed being a second averaging 29.97 per game in '16-'17.
March 13th, 2023 at 10:06 PM ^
I watched a game, I think 3rd year of the Fab 5 era so Webber was gone, Michigan VS. Loyola Marymount I believe it was. Some small school that isn't good anymore anyway. That game was insane. Both teams went over 100.
Maravich’s record is so far beyond what anyone has ever done in the college that it transcends generations. There will never be an asterisk next to his name
I’m a fan of Pete, but to be fair he did take twice the shots of anyone else. So we are comparing twice the shots vs twice the games played. Roughly.
March 13th, 2023 at 10:42 PM ^
Fair point. I do find it interesting that a major reason for the asterisk on Roger Maris's single season home run record was that the National League hadn't expanded yet as did the American League so not every player had equal opportunity to break Ruth's record. There might never have been an asterisk if the National League expanded at the same time as the AL.
March 13th, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^
He don't want none of this...
March 13th, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^
CBI.... integrity?
March 13th, 2023 at 12:57 PM ^
And if U of D-Mercy HAS to do something like BUY their way into a tournament, will having the scoring record be that impressive for Mr. Davis.
Will it improve his draft status....if there is even a draft status for him.
I guess in 50 - 100 years, the scoring record may look impressive.
I will let Detroit Mercy play one game in my driveway against Bishop Sycamore for $100,000.
Please DM me if interested.
FWIW, all 16 CBI teams buy (pay $27,500) their way into the tournament. Detroit, had they been invited, wouldn't have been the only one.
This tournament - if Detroit played in it and Davis set the record - I would have been fine with it. Sure the CBI contains less-than-elite teams, but we also have 4000 different Bowl games, many of which lose $$$ for its participants. A losing-record Rice team went to a Bowl this past December, there was no outrage about that.
I don't think the rest of the team should be punished for this young man getting the record this way. If they would be invited anyway, let them be invited. PS8, XBOX720, whatever.
I also don't think some other school should be passed over because a tourney wanted the extra publicity of Davis setting the record there.
As for Davis himself, and the record itself, it would be a lot easier for me if he flat out said, "I don't deserve the record, but I happen to be playing at the time that COVID happened, so I'm thankful that my name could end up where it didn't belong." It would take extraordinary humility to say that, so that's a lot to expect. At least he spoke respectfully of Maravich, so give him that.
If it took not only the five years, but also getting into a tourney they otherwise wouldn't have been invited to, this would have more than the ordinary asterisk.
Eventually, there will be a shooter of such accuracy that he can get the record in 4. That one will have an asterisk for the 3 point line, but the majority of the country will probably accept it. I suspect that in this case, the vast majority would have thought, "yeah, but Maravich still has the REAL record."
Rice got in because of API considerations. If some team with a losing record was going to get to go to a bowl game, at least it was the program whose kids go to class.
The careers of these two men were just so different that I would have felt bad if Mercy got another game and Pistol Pete's record was broken. 3 years vs 5, ppg, no 3-point line for PP. Can't take anything away from Davis but it would have been a record many would not have recognized.
But a lot of basketball records (like a lot of sports records) have major asterisks around them. The top 4 greatest rebounding careers all happened in the late 40s/early 50s, which seems unlikely to have just been the halcyon days of boards. The all-time block leaders are all recent players because the NCAA didn't recognize those stats before 1985. The list goes on and on.
As for Maravich, he was a great scorer but that time in college basketball history was markedly different than now. Maravich shot something like 40 times a game and that year everyone on the All American team averaged at least 29 points, with 3 over 30. Teams simply didn't play defense with the type of intensity we see now, and the overall talent was markedly different. For example, the SEC had something like 2 black players across the entire league when Maravich played, and the first black player at LSU came a couple years after he graduated. His records were impressive for their time and should be recognized as such but stats need to always be contextualized.
Maravich’s college records mean so much to his fans because his NBA career was a single scoring title and not much else (he was all nba first team for two years and second team for three, no MVP, and no other scoring titles, no championships).
LOL at being in the top ten players in the league 5x as "not much else"
FWIW, the league had 17 teams in 1972, it got up to 22 by 78. Basketball talent was still split up between the ABA and the NBA from 1967 to 1976, so it's really not that amazing. George McGinnis had a comparable pro-career (though MicGinnis won his league's title and MVP) and I'm pretty confident you've never heard of him.
uh, yeah i have but thank you. and not because I grew up in indiana.
...ok well not entirely because i grew up in indiana. still wouldn't have traded alex english for him tho.
"Teams simply didn't play defense with the type of intensity we see now, and the overall talent was markedly different."
They didn't play much defense at all. A decent comparison is soccer, a sport in which scoring declined quite a bit after the 1970s. The strategies in the games played today as opposed to 50-60 years ago is vastly different.
I agree. And I’m ok with the 3pt line changing things. Put a little blurb in Guinness about records that are pre and post 3 pt line. It’s the >4 years of playing college basketball. This just didn’t feel very pure.
So, basically, no one can beat Pistol Pete's record without an asterisk?
The only reason UDM was even considered was because of Davis. That said, every team in the CBI field has at least a .500 overall and conference record. UDM finished 14-19 and had a losing conference record. They were deservedly left out.
I don't get the asterisk part! Games change over time. Rules change, and philosophies change. The capability of players changes. I think it's worth celebrating when someone betters a milestone achieved by someone in the past. Maybe it took double the time, but the player got there.
Ifs and buts shouldn't count. Points scored should.
There has to be some way to equalize the playing field though. This record was simply a product of a pandemic giving everyone more eligibility than they have ever had, in the history of sports. In addition to that, REAL points records don’t get broken anymore because if you’re really that good, you would never stay in college for 5 years. So, good for him that he scored that many points but let’s recognize it for what it is, a talented shooter that played in a bad league, who played 144 games in 5 years.
l am cringing a little bit. Is it said anywhere that for a new record to count, it must be done in less number of games than the previous record holder? One thing we are forgetting. Antoine Davis does not become a legend or a great player or eclipse Pete Maravich by simply becoming the total points leader. He still remains a talented shooter in a bad team who got a COVID extension. Most of these records don't measure greatness or goodness. They are just a summation of the body of work of a player during his/her playing era.
Anyway, I think I am spending too much time on this :)
I'm glad out long national nightmare of a guy possibly breaking a scoring record has passed without incident.
Good. That would have been a crappy way to take such a prominent record...
His record is going to safe for a long time. Hard to imagine anyone else sniffing it.
"Hey, wouldja let us in for fifty thousand and one dollars?"
I hear UDM is in talks to hold a 2 team tournament with the Washington Generals to take place on April 1st.
“score one for CBI’s integrity”
Give me a break, the idea that it’s some sort of moral crusade to protect St. Pete’s scoring title, from his years in the bastion of sports of integrity, LSU, is farcical.
Whew
The only thing that could possibly make me care about this one way or another is the unbelievable sanctimony of this Davis guy's detractors. I mean just look at this crap:
As for Davis himself, and the record itself, it would be a lot easier for me if he flat out said, "I don't deserve the record, but I happen to be playing at the time that COVID happened, so I'm thankful that my name could end up where it didn't belong." It would take extraordinary humility to say that, so that's a lot to expect. At least he spoke respectfully of Maravich, so give him that.
I'd be embarrassed to be caught talking like that about a college kid at the end of a remarkable (if not quite record-breaking) career. Who appointed you people?
Some fans have taken it very personally!
Agreed, Jon. The above is a heinous example of unchecked self-righteousness. Another question: why exactly do people seem to have such attachment to Maravich retaining the record?
What a tease!!