Danny O'Brien to Wisconsin? (EDIT: Confirmed by Bruce Feldman)
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BFeldmanCBS JS Online reporting exMaryland QB Danny O'Brien is "poised to transfer to Wisconsin" RT @BTNTomDienhart http://t.co/lGisUh26 3/28/12 12:22 PM |
Doesn't really matter for us for a few years, but will definitely help Wisconsin. He had a great first season at UMD before Randy Edsall killed the entire program
EDIT: Confirmed
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BFeldmanCBS Ex-Terp QB Danny O'Brien is headed to WISC. A release on it is expected this afternoon. Big get for Bagders: http://t.co/iSetwhGX 3/28/12 12:49 PM |
March 28th, 2012 at 12:36 PM ^
Well it's likely who we'll see in the BTCG so it does affect us.
March 28th, 2012 at 12:40 PM ^
He's not eligible to play this year is he? Unless he is a grad school transfer he will have to sit a year.
March 28th, 2012 at 12:43 PM ^
He's graduating this spring and will be immediately eligible to play as a grad student
Everyone seems to accept this as fact. But, he still has to actually go through the process, right? Couldn't Maryland prevent it, in a similar manner as to the basketball player that tried to transfer from St. Joe's to UAB this year? Also, doesn't the NCAA at least give a cursory review to make sure this was for "academic purposes"? Since he has two years of eligibility remaining, are we sure that he's going to be allowed to suit up right away?
Maryland's already given him his release, so there's no more say there. Remember there was that biggish hubbub when Edsall tried to be a dick and put Vanderbilt on the list of no-gos just to spite James Franklin.
Right, but I thought that was simply for his innitial release, just like any other potential transfer. I'm obviously unsure of the mechanism, but I thought after a player was released, he still has to go through an additional process with the NCAA for imediate eligibility, at which point, the releasing school could object.
Eh, maybe I'm way off-base on this. I guess I'm just a little annoyed at the possibility of having two years to play at his chosen school. Seems way to much like pro-style free agency.
You may be right about the technicalities, I'm not exactly sure, but in truth whatever's left is the mere formalities. Maryland's already got enough bad press over this thing, can you envision them objecting at this stage of the game?
At any rate, the guy graduated in three years, which seems like the kind of thing the NCAA ought to encourage, so I have no problem if a pseudo-free agency is the reward for that kind of hard work.
I believe the only thing that matters is that the school he's going to offers a grad program that the school he's graduating from doesn't offer. And obviously he has to enroll in that program.
March 28th, 2012 at 12:47 PM ^
From the article.
"O’Brien is on pace to graduate this spring and under NCAA rules will be eligible to play immediately.
He has two seasons of eligibility remaining.
March 28th, 2012 at 12:48 PM ^
So Bielma would get lucky and find another Russell Wilson clone? The NCAA needs to change the grad student immediate eligibility rule.
March 28th, 2012 at 12:55 PM ^
"The NCAA needs to change the grad student immediate eligibility rule."
Why? This seems like a good thing for the student-athlete.
From my perspective, it would seem to raise the potential to have schools/coaches tamper with the set of eligible players to get them to program-hop.
There's a really small subset of players who are:
A) Good enough to make a big difference
B) Have a good reason to transfer.
Typically, Russel Wilson type players aren't going to leave their programs just to play elsewhere for a year. Personally, this is one of the few rules designed to actually promote academics in the entire NCAA rulebook. It's open for abuse, but there are much bigger fish for the NCAA to fry first.
Also they both (Wilson, O'Brien) graduated. You know, the main tangible goal of college. I think the transfer rule is an acceptable reward of sorts.
It is allowing players and coaches to game the system. It is starting to look like NFL free agency. If it's so great for the "student athlete," then make them sit out a year and get free school. That's even better for the "student athlete."
claims 380,000 athletes currently competing at all three levels. If having this rule in place for 379,900 of these students to be able to attend the grad school they choose (if they redshirted), I'm completely fine with 100 going to the Wisconsin's of the world (and possibly Michigan basketball next year) to play football or MBB for one extra year.
Russell Wilson and Danny O'Brien earned their college degrees in three years, all the while being high-profile athletes in what is the most time-intensive collegiate sport.
How in the hell is this not a good thing?
I think the rule is a good one. Why tell a runner or a tennis player they can't get a scholarship to play in grad school (which is exactly how this is used most of the time) because Beilema and a few other coaches in football and MBB take advantage of the rule*? If anything, it just shows how perverse the incentives can get in football and MBB compared to the rest of the NCAA, and why some of the rules should be changed for those two sports.
*not that there's anything inherently wrong with taking advantage of the rule; I think we're all hoping Beilein finds a grad-year to help us in 2012-13.
and interested in Michigan, would we be opposed to taking him? Lots of schools routinely plug their holes with Jucos. I don't see what Wisconsin is doing as anything different except they are only taking one player a year.
I agree, although I don't think it's the ideal way to run a team, hence my pessimism. The other advantage you get is knowing these are good students. Playing football and graduating in four years is pretty hard to do, so it's not like these guys are about to flunk out or anything.
March 28th, 2012 at 12:51 PM ^
March 28th, 2012 at 12:46 PM ^
Edsall was a really respected coach at UCONN. What happened? All I can gather is that most of the kids he inherited have an almost unsatiable hatred for him. And we thought RR's first year was rough.
Edsall was a really respected coach at UCONN. What happened?
- He went 2-10.
- He's following an anything-goes kind of coach and did so by instituting a bunch of rules that 19-year-olds really hate, like no hats indoors, no earrings, etc.
- He went 2-10.
- He managed to alienate half the high school coaches in the DC area.
- He went 2-10.
- He was brought in to turn a year-to-year inconsistent team into a consistent performer and get them over the hump from Champs Sports Bowl every other year and nothing in between, to Champs Sports Bowl every other year and Orange Bowl in between. But he came in talking like he had to rebuild from the ground up.
- And then turned it into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Have I mentioned he went 2-10?
Last year I ran into a couple fb players in the gym at Maryland and asked them what they thought of Edsall. Immediately, to a random guy in the gym, they both said, "He's an a*****."
March 28th, 2012 at 12:50 PM ^
This would signal that Wisky, which has always been a model of rectitute, is becoming kind of a sleazy and mercenary program. Do you really want to be known for annually signing soldiers of fortune? How about actually, say, recruiting.
March 28th, 2012 at 12:57 PM ^
O'Brien is on pace to graduate in three years. That makes him a pretty impressive student-athlete in my book, and the type of player any program should be proud to have.
I don't mean to knock O'Brien. I'm sure he's a fine kid. But this whole transfer/play immediately thing is, by virtually any estimation, a ridiculous loophole. Once in a special situation? Sure. Twice in a row? This trend bespeaks a program looking for quick-fix shortcuts in lieu of player development. Wisky has always shined at the latter, routinely turning 3-stars into All-Americans. Now it just sharks for one-off mercenaries who will spend a grand total of five months in Madison. On, Wisconsin!
Look at the alternative. Most players in a position to use this grad student exception are going to have one year of eligibility left. If they are a superstar, then they are probably going straight to the NFL. If they aren't they might have a hard time finding any good program that will give them a scholarship for two years just so they can play the second. Plus it would be much harder for them to make a decision based on playing time. Making them stay might put them behind in their education. Rewarding them for graduating early or on time is infinitely better than punishing them for it, even if it may work to the benefit of certain schools.
I hope there is another clause that allows players the same opportunity if they aren't accepted into the grad program at their current school.
Another way to look at it is the NCAA is simply giving college graduates the same opportunities as HS graduates. That's assuming they can get a release. Doesn't that seem fair?
I think Mack's point was geared more towards PROGRAMS using this rule to THEIR BENEFIT, with the benefits of the athlete just an afterthought. Although it isn't wrong, it certainly seems to be a rule that can at least be QUESTIONED. How would you feel if you were a QB recruited by Wisco three years ago and now a guy who has had no vested stake in the program, hasn't worked hard with the team for the past three years, has no affiliation to the school, and might simply be transferring because of the FOOTBALL circumstances at his last school steps in at the 11th hour an takes your job? Hell, the original QB might have not redshirted to position himself to take the job for just one year. "Sorry bud, but we found a new guy from New Mexico State who just graduated and we're bringing him in. Thanks for all the hard work these past 3-4 years, but this random guy gives us the best chance to win, so have fun riding the bench. Maybe we'll blow out Indiana and you can get a chance in the fourth quarter!"
Maryland is a fine school and remember that (I believe) the athlete has to find a graduate program at the new university his old one doesn't offer. I'm not an expert on grad schools, but I'd imagine there are limited choices for programs, he might end up entering into a South American Anthropology program based only on the fact that Maryland doesn't offer it, instead of pursuing a program that is more suited to their interest. If O'Brien was say... an Economics major, he can't pursue graduate work in say... accounting because Maryland offers it as well.
Although some programs may use the rule for their own benefit, I think you could say the same for just about any rule. While the programs may or may not be concerned about the educational benefits to the players, I don't think that really matters. The players can benefit academically from it if they choose to and that's the intention of the loophole.
Whatever position you play, your school is going to continue to recruit your position in CFB. I suppose the player in your example wouldn't be happy to see a highly ranked Juco or a 5* freshman come in either. He should expect stiff competition for a starting job.
Maybe it would be even better O'Brien didn't have to find a program that Maryland doesn't offer, but there are a lot of specialized programs to choose from. My understanding is that Wisconsin would just have to offer a particular program within the economics department that Maryland doesn't. He still has the option to stay at Maryland if the academic opportunities are better there. For some players the difference could be great. For example, UM is recruiting a player that wants to be a vet. He would have to go somewhere else to pursue that career after he graduates from UM.
You make some good points. I think it eventually boils down to the ultimate question (which everyone secretly knows the answer to but no university will admit). Which is more important, football or school? The answer for both the student-athlete in question and the school is (95% of the time) football. The reality is, when playing football at a D-1 school the players are "athlete-students" not "student-athletes". I'm not knocking the players, I'm just saying the reality of the situation isn't as high-minded and well-intentioned as the NCAA would lead us to believe. I guess I'm just bothered by the apparent potential for this sort of practice to become commonplace and a "free-agent" market to develop among guys unhappy with the football program at their chosen schools or guys who graduated and still have year(s) of eligibility. I mean, it is possible for a school from a low-level conference to simply recruit players who weren't given a fifth year at bigger schools (granted, that could be more free education for the players).
Regarding your last point, it seems like schools could very easily beat this rule by simply allowing transferring players to essentially create their own major. I know it is possible for undergrads and though it'd probably be harder for grad schools, I'd bet you could simply adjust a program ever so slightly to get the player in (i.e. create European History (1918-1945) to establish a different program than Maryland's plain old European History).
can't say i know the details of wisconsin's situation, but i highly doubt this is their long-term strategy. granted, it's two years in a row, but i think they now have some promising young guy(s) they're looking to develop. since they also just went through some turnover in the staff, an experienced qb is a good get for them.
You can lean on the youth-and-injuries thing once. But not twice in a row. If they've got no able bodies, it's because they recruited badly. Over these two seasons, they've had 5 scholarship QBs. I don't think all of them have been injured.
March 28th, 2012 at 12:54 PM ^
1. Wisconsin
2. Ohio State (banned from post-season play)
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3. Purdue
4. Penn State
5. Illinois
6 Indiana
How can we be victors of the west if we're not in the "West" division?
I do see your point, though, in that we won't play at least two of those teams even if we do play in the B1G championship game.
Do you mean "Champions of the West!"?
March 28th, 2012 at 12:54 PM ^
What grad program does Wisconsin offer that these seniors are signing up for? Is O'Brien going for the same grad program Wilson did?
I don't really want to blame Wisconsin for shenanigans because the loophole is legit and it's allowing the players an opportunity to continue playing in a better situation. I'm just curious if the players are using the grad program loophole just for football purposes, or if they're serious about the subject matter of the degree. I suppose there's no way to know.
The UW website states that Russell Wilson is a "communications major."
I don't like it. I don't like it one bit. Seems like shenanigans to me. I swear to God I'm going to pistol-whip the next guy who says, "Shenanigans"
Not again. Bielma is such a massive tool. It would be nice to see him have to actually break in a new/freshman quarterback for once.
I wonder if Madison is too liberal for him?
NTDOB