Cam McGrone and German Green feared for lives in summer 2019 traffic stop
https://twitter.com/aria_gerson/status/1269059524834529283
I can't embed, but if you think you root for this team but think Cam and German did something to deserve this treatment, I don't want you rooting for Michigan anymore. Watch the video. Listen.
Was this MSP?
Given that the police officer in the video asks "Do you play for U of M?" I have to assume it was SE Michigan, though it's not specified.
If Cam Mcgrone would have run, who would have caught him?
A cop’s bullet.
This thread is funny. All these posters claim to be listening now and when a player highlights how he feels, they suddenly stop giving af and go right back to their bs talking points.
Unreal.
Lot of walmart wolverine magas that post on this board.
I agree. Cop was a bit of an asshole, but many are. That doesnt make him racist. The only reason they had to fear for their life was the media’s constant portrayal of black youth having a target on their back to the point that black kids are truly scared in normal interactions. My guess is he had them get out of the car to keep them out if trouble, if they had anything on them. That is why he asked them to step out, only after he asked if they played for U of M (Xavier Simpson-style).
Unpopular opinion these days, but that doesnt make it any less true. Look up Daniel Shavers, if you want to see a true cop execution. He was white though so the media didnt touch it.
Have you ever been held for a cop for 2 or 3 hours for speeding? That seems to go well beyond being, “a bit of an asshole”.
Thank You.
I’m Caucasian. And yes. By MSP. In Coldwater Michigan. And in St. Clair Shores. And in South Bend by Indian State Police. And in Greeneville Tennessee for going 27 in a 25 mph zone.
In Coldwater, MI, it was late at night (probably around midnight) I was pulled over for “tailgating.” The cop pulled me over from behind. I asked how I was tailgating him when he was behind me. I was pulled out of the car, cuffed, and dragged to the Coldwater MSP station, while his buddy searched my car. He and his buddy then gave me a sobriety test (at the station, not on the street), questioned me (yelled at me is more like it) for about an hour and a half, even after I asked for a lawyer, until I asked for my lawyer and a phone call for the umpteenth time. Finally told me I allegedly tailgated an off duty officer 20-30 miles outside of Coldwater and that that officer phoned ahead to his buddies to make sure they “checked me out.” At 2ish AM they drive me back to my car and told me to be on my way. No ticket, no warning, just a “Fuck you and have a nice day.”
Police suck. And minorities have it WAY worse. I really hope these protests bring about some change in how our govt agents police not just minorities, but us all.
You’ve been held by cops 4 separate times for speeding for 2 or 3 hours each time? You may want to rethink something you are doing.
I’ve been held far more than that. Many times it was deserved as I was a rambunctious kid.
But yea, at least 4 times I have been held for 2 hours or more for speeding.
And I have a squeaky clean record.
I do not believe that, Jaws. Total bull shit.
I have been pulled over more than the average person in their early 30's and I am white. I have never been help for longer than it takes to talk to me and run my plates so drjaw sounds like he is full of shit.
This pretty much sums up my experience with police. They generally suck, they profile people, and for the most part seem to be about an agenda as opposed to protecting the community they serve. And you want to know why? The criminal justice is a giant fucking billion dollar business. Prisons are privately owned. Its quite literally one of the biggest industry’s in America and people are making hand over fist profits, and they don’t want any type of reform.
furthermore to expand on my thoughts about police officers which may not be popular here, I remember getting lamb basted for how I shredded the cop who arrested Malik McDowell.
There’s a type of person who wants to be a cop, and they crave being able to control people. Sure not every cop is a total loser but most are, and most are hot headed and allow personal feelings to enter a realm that should not have feelings and emotions. Just watch any of the copious amounts of arrest videos being released this week, these are grown men who lost their cool and asserting their power over their victim.
Honestly how fucking stupid are these people, we are marching against police brutality and there are videos of police brutalizing the protesters. Again I recognize there is a small minority out there like a Mr Chris Swanson, but it’s a minority.
there needs to be widespread change over the power we give police officers over us, during routine traffic stops, non violent infractions. I heard a sobering stat this week, the number 6 cause of death for black men 26 and under is police violence.
As NWA said it best fuck the police.
edit: if you want to do something tangible go support he state of Michigan’s very own Justin Amash and his bill looking to end qualified immunity. That is tangible progress to make police understand that they serve us. It’s time to make a change and expose the bad actors.
So much wrong with this post. You provide no substantiation for any of your claims. Just a bunch of broad-brushed stereotyping. Almost all interactions with police that ever make the news are the ones that go wrong. When it gets hyped, and in many cases justifiably so (George Floyd), people draw the conclusion that it's a microcosm of how police conduct themselves.
Are LEO's perfect? No. Far from it. Do some departments have institutional problems? Undoubtedly. I know it's anecdotal - a good friend of mine who lives across the street from me is a cop. He doesn't fit any of your broad-brushed descriptions. None of the police officers in the community where I have lived for the past 22 years fits your descriptions. Not one. Again, yes, this is anecdotal. Nevertheless, substantiation for your nasty screed would be appreciated.
Just about anyone who watched what happened to George Floyd is aghast and outraged by it. That doesn't mean that most (very "charitable" of you to allow for the possibility that at least a small percentage of police officers are decent people who approach their work professionally) are murderous thugs like Chauvin.
If you can provide substantiation for your claims I'll gladly read them and give careful consideration to them. As your post currently stands it was little more than an emotional and hate-filled outburst borne out of prejudice.
Dude the facts are out there. My job is not to educate you. Go out and see for yourself, listen and hear the facts being spoken. It’s really not hatred but a fairly accurate representation of police officers, and 100% fact about the criminal justice system.
I also Do acknowledge the minority of police officers who are good men and women who do their job in protecting those they serve.
I could give two fucks what a blind man would carefully consider. We have been well past careful consideration, it’s time for a change. So either be the change or kindly go fuck yourself and get out the way.
The 'facts are out there' is a bullshit answer and you know it.
If you are going to spout off be prepared to back it up. Or acknowledge your own bullshit.
Your choice. You didn't cite any 'facts' and it's precisely the reason I called you out.
So, put up or shut up.
PS - I don't disagree with everything you said. You were spot-on about how profitable incarceration has become - it's an industry.
I mean dude, how about this, let’s exchange phone numbers and have a real discussion. I could cut and paste a bunch of links that skew statistics one direction and you could come back with your own references that skew statistics another.
it’s not a bullshit answer it’s just fact. And I’ll say again it’s not my job to educate you. I compare this type of request akin to asking me to provide you evidence for who won the Super Bowl last year.
I’m glad to hear you don’t have a problem with what I’m saying overall, because I’m not going to change my stance.
The definition of white privilege. They can't relate because it is so out of the realm of anything they have experienced. Do you play for UM? Get out of the car, and let's talk about it? WTF was that all about?
"My guess is he had them get out of the car to keep them out if trouble, if they had anything on them"
This has never happened to me. I haven't been pulled over that many times in my life but still. I couldn't have had anything on me?
2-3 hours. Cop was at best being an asshole and at worst making sure that Cam and German didn't match the description of every black suspect out there. It happens to the most law-abiding black people all the time.
Sure the media may exaggerate the issue but that doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist. Bu the media. Other crimes. Chicago. Etc. Your favorite talking points. If you actually care about those things then be my guest and go ahead and protest those things.
But we all know you only bring these things up to make excuses and to keep deflecting and conflating and distracting from the actual issue of police brutality (which, yes, does exist for all races but way disproportionately more for blacks).
It's okay to take a step back and reflect and be wrong sometimes instead of going into a shell and bringing up every "what about X" until the end of time.
Would you mind sharing the data that proves it does, in fact, happen disproportionately for blacks?
"We start by analyzing the rates at which police stop motorists in locations across the country, relative to the population in those areas. The data show that officers generally stop black drivers at higher rates than white drivers, and stop Hispanic drivers at similar or lower rates than white drivers. These broad patterns persist after controlling for the drivers’ age and gender."
https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/
"When police initiated an interaction, they were twice as likely to threaten or use force against Black and Hispanic residents than white residents."
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2018/10/12/policing/
If you wanna look at stop and frisk, which is a tactic many want to come back,
"Previous local studies suggest that stop-and-frisk is particularly discriminatory. In 2010, near the peak of the city’s use of stop-and-frisk, Black residents in New York City were 8 times more likely to be stopped by the police than white residents and 11 times more likely to be frisked."
This, btw, took me about 2 minutes to find, making me think your question is not in good faith, but rather something you don't wish to learn about.
Beat me too it
Him and millions of others refuse to admit racism is a problem in this country. They are the problem and the majority.
So it's impossible that black people speed more?
DOJ and attorney general found during a study in the 90s that blacks were being pulled over disproportionately. Study concluded blacks were 25% of all speeders and 23% of those stopped for speeding. Among speeders going even faster, racial disparity was even greater.
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/21/nyregion/study-suggests-racial-gap-in-speeding-in-new-jersey.html
2013 institute of justice report on reasons minority drivers had been stopped more often.
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/racial-profiling-and-traffic-stops
July 2016 Harvard study found black suspects are often shot less than white suspects in similar situations.
https://www.nber.org/papers/w22399.pdf
DOJ analyzed Philadelphia Police Department and found white officers less likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot unarmed black suspects.
Stop and frisk:
NYPD stop and frisk data. Blacks were 53% of those pulled over despite being 23% of population. Could that be a result of being 66% of violent crime suspects?
https://nypost.com/2012/05/22/stop-frisk-facts/
Jan-June 2015 as stop and frisk stops dropped, murder increased by 19.5% and shootings increased by 9%.
If I were Black, I would not speed. Why risk your life to get somewhere 20 seconds faster? Anecdotally I see a lot of Black drivers that seem to have the cruise control set 1 mph below the limit.
Let’s start with stop and frisk:
1. The long term data is completely inconsistent with the article you cite:
“New York City saw a record-low 333 homicides in 2014, the first year of the de Blasio administration. Though that figure was slightly higher in 2015 and 2016 (352 and 335), four of the five least-murderous years in New York City since 1960 have been in the de Blasio era. Other crime statistics have largely followed suit, with the total number of major crimes down in 2017 by about 6 percent since 2016, which was itself a record-low year.’
2. The data don’t suggest that it was particularly effective and that there was clear racial bias (that does not appear correlated to the actual guns it took off the street.
“Only 14 out of every 10,000 stops conducted during the Bloomberg era turned up a gun, and just 1,200 out of every 10,000 ended with a fine, an arrest or the seizure of an illegal weapon, according to police data analyzed by the New York Civil Liberties Union. A Columbia University professor said the stops were no better at producing gun seizures than chance.
Black and Latino people were more likely be to stopped and frisked, even though their white counterparts were twice as likely to be found with a gun, according to the New York Civil Liberties Union.‘
1) you realize that the evidence citing black people being pulled over disproportionately isn't evidence that they speed more, but rather evidence that they just get pulled over more? Think about it, the only way those statistics work is if someone gets pulled over and ticketed, but if there's bias in that process, which the article YOU linked admitted, then of course more Black people speed.
2) The second link you used does say Black people wear seatbelts less, but it also says they get pulled over more because of higher police presence in predominantly Black neighborhoods, which in and of itself is a form of racist and predictive policing.
3) For the Washington Post Article is just... not true. This is why when you just look at the number of people police officers have killed in the past 7 years, Black people are 2.5x more likely than Whites to be killed by police.
Are you also saying that if there were also increased crime rates in those areas that would also stem from over policing?
Sure they are 2.5x more likely to be killed by police, but they are more than 2.5x more likely to kill police. As in blacks make up 35% of police killings despite being 13% of the population.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2018/tables/table-42.xls
You can also use FBI database to search for violent crime statistics by race.
Here are some other interracial crime statistics.
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv18.pdf
Pleasantly surprised I am not exclusively getting attacked around here. I appreciate discussion with those that disagree with me.
So, what is your theory as to why black people are more likely to have violent confrontations with police or commit violent crime?
https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/
Data from 21 state patrol agencies and 29 municipal police departments, comprising nearly 100 million traffic stops, are sufficiently detailed to facilitate rigorous statistical analysis. The result? The project has found significant racial disparities in policing. These disparities can occur for many reasons: differences in driving behavior, to name one. But, in some cases, we find evidence that bias also plays a role.
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2018/10/12/policing/
- Black residents were more likely to be stopped by police than white or Hispanic residents, both in traffic stops and street stops.
- Black and Hispanic residents were also more likely to have multiple contacts with police than white residents, especially in the contexts of traffic and street stops. More than 1 in 6 Black residents who were pulled over in a traffic stop or stopped on the street had similar interactions with police multiple times over the course of the year.
- When police initiated an interaction, they were twice as likely to threaten or use force against Black and Hispanic residents than white residents.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-decades-of-traffic-stop-data-reveals-about-police-bias/
The data showed that African Americans had been stopped twice as often as white drivers, and while they were four times more likely to be searched, they were actually
less likely to be issued a ticket. The study also highlighted that whites were more likely to be found with contraband than blacks or Hispanics
once i would like to see someone ask for evidence and then actually read and say 'shit, did not know that. i learned something today.'
If you think black people are afraid of police because of media portrayal instead of real life experiences, you REALLY REALLY need to re-evaluate how you live your life.
I know you're getting downvoted pretty heavily, but you actually make a good point about Daniel Shaver.
His murder was way more violent than George Floyd's and most people have never heard about it.
most, but not all
https://blavity.com/blm-activists-call-attention-to-graphic-video-of-daniel-shavers-death-at-the-hands-of-arizona-police
He did not “make a good point.”
"The only reason they had to fear for their life was the media’s constant portrayal of black youth having a target on their back to the point that black kids are truly scared in normal interactions."
Do you think all of these incidents that people are protesting now were made up by the media? WTF dude.
I never said that racism/police brutality/abuse of power dont exist. They obviously do. What I said was that I didnt really see this video as an example of that. What I did see were kids conditioned to fear for their lives before the cop even approached the car, which is also something that should be addressed and improved.
I’ll take my negs, as I knew I would, but save the outrage for the George Floyd/Daniel Shavers tragedies, not every traffic stop that involves an asshole cop.
"I'll save my outrage for the murderous acts of racism and not just plain horrendous acts of racism"
What kind of twisted logic is that?
And those kids are conditioned to fear for their lives because it's their reality. All the black parents across America having "the conversation" about how to interact with police? They're conditioned to do so by reality. Not by some media conspiracy.
Try and see it from their shoes.
Last summer I was pulled over for speeding near Ann Arbor Late at night. I think state police but I’m not sure. Anyways cop says get out of the car. He then handcuffs me and shoves me against the car. I naturally resist a little to being shoved around. He yells at me and says I’m resisting. He then hits my face into the side of the car. I was getting a little nervous cus no one was around and it was so weird. He then shoved his knee into my back for maybe a couple minutes. After that he randomly uncuffs me and says “ok you can go have a good night”. Like wtf ?? I didn’t even get a ticket. Cops are abusive and the media has o my highlighted to blacks. But they are abusive af to us all.
Having had a handful of speeding tickets over my life I most definitely disagree. Not once have I been asked to leave the car over something so minor -- the cop was most definitely out of line here.
There's definitely a different rule book for black folks. I was a bit of a hell raiser as a teenager and was fortunate that my father was an attorney and made a couple of indiscretions go away. I compared notes with a black buddy of mine and he indicated that he unquestionably would have been thrown in jail.
One other thing: one group that did care about Daniel Shavers
https://blavity.com/blm-activists-call-attention-to-graphic-video-of-daniel-shavers-death-at-the-hands-of-arizona-police
Prestige, your rationalization and suggestion that police violence and racism and how it impacts black youth is ignorant and racist. Perhaps it’s about time that others spoke up to address this constant need to support systemic racism or merely blame the media.
Ah yes, the media totally didn't cover Daniel Shavers's shooting and the resulting aftermath. Totally flew under the radar and the fact you remember it means that the voluminous evidence of police mistreating black men, especially young black men, to the tune of a 3X higher likelihood of being shot compared to white people is invalidated.
Yes, some cops are assholes to lots of people. Holding two black teenagers for 2-3 hours for a routine traffic stop isn't "being an asshole"; it's profiling by some guy who wanted to exert power over these guys. If you want to sit here and argue whataboutism because white people are ALSO shot by police go for it, but this "black kids are conditioned to believe they are victims" rationalization is lazy; it came about not because of some media-fed conspiracy but because of ample evidence.
I'd also like to add that if a black man had a BAC of 3 times the legal limit and brandishing a weapon (like Shavers did), my guess is that would have seeped into the coverage of the shooting a bit more.
It’s tough to make any kind of assumption from a 2 minute video. What did they do and say before they started recording? What was done and said after the recording? This is a short take from a bigger episode and hearing just one side of the story
"I don't want you rooting for Michigan anymore". Whats with the gatekeeping? This kind of attitude is toxic to free thought & dialogue.