Ben Herbert, what sets him apart in the weight room?
I just finished reading through buckeykiller1's post on Ben Herbert's well deserved pay raise, and as many of the posters have noted this raise was beyond well deserved.
Harbaugh's spoken gratitude, pertaining to what Herbert does for the program speaks for itself.
This is my first board post, as one can see I butchered my first attempt (see below if it's still there, whoops).
My question for the board, if it hasn't already been covered at some length is-
WHAT exactly sets Herbert apart in the weight room/gym opposed to your run of the mill S&C coach at Western Wyoming A&T?
I'd be curious to be a fly on the wall and watch and learn how his lifts, workouts, explosion, and dynamic balance drills objectively give our players the advantage over the majority of college football. As others have pointed out, our players are specimens.
Being a long time board member, if any MgoStrength coaches, etc could shed some insight on any this I'd love to hear it. Go Blue! We're winning the Natty this yr.
He just knows how to get every thread.
that's what sets him apart in the community
It’s strangely hypnotic
I agree - as is the video from which it was taken https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO-QTJer3vU&t=19s
The original....not so much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBUAbv7pYz0
Serious answer for the OP:
What separates Herbert is his results. You don't f**k around with Strength and Conditioning - not when you've got someone who's producing. You want to go back to 2013 OL? That's a recipe for 5-7 seasons or becoming Nebraska of the last 8 years.
Far as I'm concerned, pay the man his money and keep him here.
Imo S&C is two part. Herbert is doing his job physically with the program to have the team on par with anyone in the country. He has the entire roster motivated and engaged to get better, a lot better.
The second part is the entire program is engaged by the staff to put the work on the field and film room to get better.
Putting those together shows the end result on the field. I'd love to see the end results with a top 5 classes consistently coming in.
He doesn’t skip leg day.
And every day is leg day.
You stole my line, lol.
oh you have a patent on an internet meme?
I don’t think those words mean what you think they mean, genius
Okay, I get it. You're that guy that goes after grammar instead of the contextual argument. Well done. It's still a meme that you claimed was "your line", genius.
Though it is fitting for you I suppose to make such claims as a meme being your line.
That's just hilarious to me.
I heard if at first he doesn’t succeed, he tries again.
This is 7 years old (!) at this point and dates back to his time at Arkansas, but I remember watching it when we first hired him. Might be of interest as it relates to understanding his philosophy:
97 - thanks for posting. Great link, content, and discussion / presentation. It provides a lot of insight to what he's about, his approach, and perspective on accountability.
Go Blue!
Oh my goodness, thank you for this. No wonder he's the real deal. He really gets it.
First off, he was completely unable to condense his approach to a sound bite. This to me is the first way to distinguish an expert over a con man. It's too holistic, too detailed. From nutrition to technique to environment, there's just too much to turn into a philosophy. He's a technician.
Second, I love that he doesn't chase numbers. He sounds like a Deming disciple, the way he emphasizes quality over numbers "that take care of themselves". He couldn't give a flying rat's ass if you can squat whatever; he wants to see how you do it, and to translate that strength to functional power.
Amazing video. This explains everything.
About halfway through and this is truly great. Really useful information that is applicable to anyone interested in the topic. Already searching for single leg squat stand to help with my hip flexibility issues when squatting.
This is mesmerizing. So much detail, so many seemingly minor things, yet Iit's clear how he's tying everything together.
Yeah, just watch this. It’s the answer.
People are having fun with you, but it is obviously an important part of the program. #1, he has to be very sound in his training approach and is obviously very good at that. But beyond that, he seems to be very good at motivating and creating a disciplined, yet supportive environment.
All I know is that I'm glad we have him!
Maizinator,
I spent 5 years in a Big Ten weight room and 3 months at the International Performance Institute (the weight room at IMG Academy). I’ve not heard someone put it as intelligently as you just did.
S&C coaches have to be great at programming for each individual, knowing the nuanced, proper, form of dangerous movements, and a ton of other things. Some coaches are great these and some are just mailing it in or pretending.
Then you have the motivation and culture building aspects. That, in my lived experience, is something very few S&C coaches, and sport coaches, have any real clue about. Huge credit to Herbert if he is embracing and actively building M football culture. It sure seems he is.
Credit also to Harbaugh and the coaching staff. I’ve seen coaches who want to micromanage S&C programs because they are terrified of injury. Imagine if last year Harbaugh decided Corum was too valuable to lift heavy. Or if Hart was the kind of coach saying, “I didn’t need to do all that to be great, are you sure you do?” Or a million other ways coaches can unintentionally undercut S&C. Lastly, I’ve also seen egos get hurt and tempers flare between S&C coaches, athletic trainers, and sport coaches. Credit to everyone for managing all of that well in the M football program.
Great comments - and, perhaps the aspect of "synergy" with a shared vision, mission, and purpose is something that is more evident in Ann Arbor. This reflects the culture that's either evolved, or been created over the past few seasons.
Who is involved with this - creating this culture that's being referenced? It's everyone that touches the program - the players, coaches, supporting staff, etc. And, as a lifelong fan - it is fantastic to see.
Go Blue!
Motivation is probably the most important part. Being on a program that makes you want to exercise and workout is so much better than not wanting to.
The word is that we only hired him so that we could get Zach Ludwig.
This comment won't get the love it deserves, but I appreciated it
All I know about what sets him apart in the weight room is what walks out of the weight room.
He fought and beat all of Barwis' wolves.
Came here to write this.
Funny how one's S&C is the best S&C coach doing next level stuff no other school is doing.
In the weight room…..in the community……
and the practice field
It's probably best that we don't know.
Exactly, no one should know.
Username checks out...
It's a good question.
Coaching, though not obvious, at least has elements you can point to.
But the weight room? If it were simply MORE, everyone would do it.
Ok, this absolutely should have been posted in the Herbert extension/ raise thread.
It's definitely a snowflake.
In response and to not go full mgoblog on you.
2 straight Joe Moores, 2 straight playoffs. We can all talk barwis and cutting edge lifts. But one has trophies, and one doesn't. The man got the Teddy KGB treatment bc, as they say in the English football, he has silverware.
Edit. I am probably being too dismissive. The difference is exactly what Harbaugh has said it is. Your weight coach has the most time with the players. They are the ones who set culture, whatever your thoughts on the weight of culture within an organization.
At the same time the role that your weight coach has in the culture is directly related to how much freedom you give him. This is the Wisconsin v. Arkansas v. Michigan argument.
There is no secret lift or workout.
“whatever your thoughts on the weight of culture within an organization.”
Let’s be real clear here: anyone who dismisses or underplays the importance of culture within an organization - any organization - is wrong.
I would agree.
But there are definitely people who give culture a different weight within the organization.
I think the fact that Harbaugh tried to nominate Herbert for the Broyles should tell all of us the value that Harbaugh places on culture, and the value that Harbaugh feels that Herbert brings to establishing that culture. This is why I am in no way surprised to see Herbert in the same tier as Moore and Minter for compensation.
This is why I find the OP kind of obtuse. There is no new lift or workout that Herbert is running. He and his staff are training players well physically, to modern industry standards and setting a culture that is elite.
This is why people like OP act so gun shy when posting topics
It's just a stupid question for the forum. You could write several books on what Herbert does, there's no good answer that would fit in a response comment.
Maquih, not sure if it's a stupid question. The OP isn't looking for a book but is asking if there are reasons that we can understand without reading a book.
So, for instance, Pkf97 [above] linked to a video of Herbert's discussing what he does. Which probably answers the original question.
[I'm upvoting you because I upvote any comment I respond to.]
Thank you for this;
This was all I was asking for!
Read the OP. He is looking for workout tips and new lifts.
The reason is simple. Watch any video. It's not a brand new workout that Herbert invented. It's the guys, staff and players, going crazy for a teammates achievement.
That's fucking culture. That is why Harbaugh wanted to nominate Herbert over Moore for the Broyles.
There are umpteen reasons that the RichRod era was a disaster, but I don't think Barwis is on the list.
Lots of self-promotion here, of course, but people are still paying him for S&C stuff:
I think people overrated his impact at UM, but he's not a bum.
Heron - I recall the excitement around Barwis years ago. And, I'm not familiar enough with specific training techniques at this level to distinguish the difference between Barwis and Herbert.
Data can provide a lot of insight - and, one item I don't know about the data that's captured is - player games missed.
It seems to me that, though there have been injuries to the team - the frequency has decreased. As I mentioned - no data about this - just a gut feeling - and, in fact, it could be the exact same between the two coaches.
Go Blue!
Barwis was told by RR he wanted his lines under 300 and to move. Where the issue resided was while these guys were trimmed down and could move they were now undersized for BigTen play. It was like looking at a lower level mac oline at one point in big ten play. Yeah they would have been more skilled but they couldn't move anyone off the ball.
Funny thing was, even after getting ran over by big ten olines it wasn't until osu embarrassed us again that RR said to barwis, we have to get bigger.. Yeah they didn't.
Then go look at the size difference in the lines from 2009-2010 to the 2011-2012 olines. massive difference.
I’m sure he’s perfectly fine at his job. But when he was here, people acted like he was a secret weapon who could spin a bad OL into gold. This usually went hand in hand with the notion that his predecessor, Mike Gittleson, was the worst S&C coach of all time and was serving players corn mash instead of Gatorade on the sidelines.
I dont give a fuck how cutting edge the Barwis Effect is. Our players got pushed around, stuffed in a blender and shit down their throats when he was our S&C coach. Our players are not getting pushed around, stuffed in a blender and shit down their throats now.