The Athletic (Mandel and Wasserman) admit their wrong

Submitted by HarleyMarlboro on January 3rd, 2024 at 7:45 AM

While I understand why so many discredit The Athletic now, some of us still have a subscription.  This morning, they published a couple of articles that, to their credit, address some wrong sentiments  they've expressed in the past (all links are $.  Archive.is is your friend).

 

https://theathletic.com/5175785/2024/01/03/mandels-mailbag-michigan-investigation-cfp/

Stewart Mandel admits that a Michigan national championship would not be tainted, because even if you believed the Signgate "garbage" (my word, not his), the team won the biggest games (Penn St., Ohio St., Iowa, Alabama) after it broke, so there would be no advantage anyways.

 

https://theathletic.com/5175155/2024/01/03/michigan-alabama-recruiting-rankings/

Ari Wasserman admits that he was wrong believing that Stars trumped everything.  Six months ago, he would've thought this CFP final would be impossible, but Michigan beat multiple superteams, showing that scouting and development can trump Stars.  He still thinks Stars are more important, but Michigan showed you can overcome that.  He gives credit to Washington as well, while admitting that they did not have to beat the same caliber of teams that Michigan did.

Blue Vet

January 3rd, 2024 at 8:22 AM ^

Wasserman implicitly addresses your question in his article, writing that he HAD always assumed recruiting stars were the primary determinant of success AND that results in the playoffs demonstrated it.

But Michigan coaches' superior ability to develop players changed the equation for him. 

Meanwhile Mandel attributed it to the portal but made the same basic point: 
"I still think recruiting rankings as an aggregate are pretty darn accurate. There will always be individual hits and misses, but the larger correlation between signing highly ranked recruits and winning football games is well-documented."

rice4114

January 3rd, 2024 at 10:57 AM ^

If Michigan is signing a class of 25 guys they wanted as first choices then I am 100% ok. If our coaches are falling back to 2nd and 3rd choices constantly that is a different story. This team is an NFL ready team of grown ass men. This is something special that transcends recruiting rankings. Will the magic last forever? Im not sure but Im enjoying it while it lasts. 

WrestlingCoach

January 3rd, 2024 at 9:02 AM ^

Not to mention that the people ranking these HS kids are not even really scouts, they just gather information. If any of them had a real clue they would be working on a college staff or actually coaching the game. Not too hard to measure and rank athletic measurements. Or who has the most catches in skully.  

umgoblue11

January 3rd, 2024 at 11:01 AM ^

Yes, this times 10000!!! Been beating this drum for years, and actively avoid media types like that who don't know ball. As my friends in the NFL like to say, there's a reason why NFL teams the best teams aren't all filled with 1st round picks. Look at the failed Browns strategy a few years ago. Talent doesn't always equate to success. It's about building a team.

brad

January 3rd, 2024 at 1:01 PM ^

I believe prep scouting took a severe hit during the pandemic, in addition to NIL and the portal allowing players a lot of flexibility.

There's a feedback loop inside both Alabama and Georgia's programs right now.  They have extremely highly rated classes from 2021 and 2022 and everyone is from within driving distance of Alabama (Texas to Florida, all gulf states) with a tiny handful of exceptions.  So the prep rating agencies seem to have been overvaluing the south, Bama and Georgia feasted on those guys, but the apparent “talent” profile is diverging from the actual quality of player profile more than usual.  This is part of the reason we have a chance to take the tile this year, and next year again if JJ returns.

 

Hotel Putingrad

January 3rd, 2024 at 7:56 AM ^

Mandel is such a dope. All season long he was predicting Michigan to win the national championship then last week suddenly changed his tune in predicting an Alabama win.

Wait a second. I did the same. I'm the dope.

Carry on...

But Ari will always be the Nate Silver of CFB.

Lakeyale13

January 3rd, 2024 at 8:00 AM ^

Michigan has overcome so much this year.  Proud to be a Michigan Wolverine.  It is so true what Coach has said....adversity can galvanize a group of people like nothing else.  I'm grateful for the issues this team has had and the way they have approached it.

Star ratings only matter if you have a quality head coach and quality player development.  Better players, with a talented head coach and great player development usually win.

907_UM Nanook

January 3rd, 2024 at 10:52 AM ^

Mandel is the editor in chief, as far as I know. And previously pro-Michigan Feldman & Auerbach really jumped in & pushed signgate at the big culmination prior to the TRO hearing. You include Quinn & Wasserman fanning the flames, and the entire Athletic staff were writing negative articles on Harbaugh & Michigan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they get none of my money until Mandel is removed as the Editor & they give us some decent Michigan coverage next season. 

Champeen

January 3rd, 2024 at 8:10 AM ^

Back in the late 90's and early 2000's, i believed that stars were the most important thing.  I was young and naive.  Now in my older wiser years, i now realize that coaching is the single most important thing.  For you young, naive idiot star gazers, yes stars do still matter.  But it is to a much lesser extent than you think.

On average, give me a 4th/5th year mid 3 star to mid 4 star over a true freshmen or true sophomore 5 star any day.  And give me great coaching.   That team is going to go places.

Bill22

January 3rd, 2024 at 8:14 AM ^

Everyone seems to be looking for the secret to Michigan’s success (cheeseburgers, stolen signs, smelling salts).  The secret is Ben Herbert, and he shouldn’t even be a secret at this point.  Harbaugh mentions his name every chance he gets.

Why are certain kids made 5* talents in the recruiting rankings over others?  It’s typically size and speed, which for certain positions (CB, DT, LT) make all the difference.  But for other positions, those things don’t matter as much, or they can be developed.  Ben Herbert has the ability to get the best physically out of most players.  The ones who embrace it (Mazi Smith, DJ Turner, Kwity Paye) far outpace their recruiting ranking and become top NFL draft picks.  What other program does that as consistently??

I love Sherrone Moore, Jesse Minter and the entire coaching staff, but as long as Harbaugh and Herbert are in their positions with Michigan, this will continue and it is an unfair advantage.  Go Blue!

WrestlingCoach

January 3rd, 2024 at 9:06 AM ^

All those early morning lifts in HS where he had to wait for Biff to unlock the gym definitely paid off! 
 

I’m an A-Train fan first and foremost, never seen a big man with such great feet, vision, power, speed. I gotta admit, as much as I love Hart I was salty when he broke the rushing yard record. Not with Blake breaking his TD record, he did it in epic fashion, respect sir!

AWAS

January 3rd, 2024 at 9:09 AM ^

I think we cannot overlook a key aspect about Herbert's contribution.  He gets the most *mentally* and *physically* out of those that work with him.  The continuous presentation of uncomfortable situations and challenges to push boundaries of what one thinks is possible creates a tough, resilient mindset.   

It's crucial that this type of training be matched with players that are willing to be coached in this way, and the Starz system is most imperfect when measuring development capability between the ears.  I think we acknowledge that ability to identify that type of player in both DeBoer's and Harbaugh's coaching staffs as their path to competitiveness.  

NeverPunt

January 3rd, 2024 at 10:11 AM ^

came here to say the same. Watch clips like these and tell me these ALl American, NFL caliber offensive tackles getting wrecked by our D-Linemen isn't thanks to Herbert.

https://twitter.com/WeAreBigGuys/status/1469401706287013892

Thayer Munford is a first team all-american playing in the NFL now.

and this one from the Rose Bowl

https://www.reddit.com/r/MichiganWolverines/comments/18wpdhu/josiah_stewart_appreciation_post/

JC Latham is a first-team all American, likely high draft pick in this year's draft, a 5-star, and 6'6" and 360 lbs and Josiah Stewart is mid-3 star transfer from Coastal Carolina at 6'1" and 240 lbs. and he whippin' dat azz.

Hab

January 3rd, 2024 at 11:08 AM ^

I agree, but don't discount the scheme or those that come up with it.  Both Mumford and Latham are being asked to perform a specific job--keep defensive players from getting to a certain place.  Mumford got to where he needed to go, but he got there flat-footed and got blown up.  Outstanding.  It looks to me like Latham had to make a lateral move to the inside, which he didn't get to in time, resulting in him being slightly off and vulnerable to getting moved, leading to Stewart winning the battle.

If this is just a line up the boys and play straight ahead, the D-line doesn't enjoy the success it had for as long as it did.  The scheme put our D-line players in positions where they enjoyed the greatest chance for success.  

Execution is important.  Scheme is important.  You need both.  We got both.  Credit to all.

gbdub

January 3rd, 2024 at 8:15 AM ^

This was obvious as soon as the story broke, and it would have been equally true regardless of the result on Monday. Now that they can’t buy anymore clicks with the “scandal” they try to restore their credibility. Not buying it. 

dragonchild

January 3rd, 2024 at 11:51 AM ^

Right.  They could've seen the light in October.  Or November.  Or December.

But now IT'S FUCKING JANUARY and Michigan has beaten PSU, beaten OSU, won the B1G, defeated Alabama, all without that "three touchdown advantage" of Connor Stalions and with a lot of 3-stars. . . oh, NOW they get it?

Or is it more like, all of their made-up narratives have dried up, and to keep their jobs they have to jump into the bandwagon they just couldn't stop pissing on for three fucking months?

Ernis

January 3rd, 2024 at 8:22 AM ^

Did they specifically call themselves out for their shameful hyperbole and apologize for it?

If not, this looks like an indication of even lower integrity

Booted Blue in PA

January 3rd, 2024 at 8:40 AM ^

"What are you going to do when your back's up against a wall, when you feel like everyone is against you?" 

 Blake 'The Great' Corum

 

You go out and win a National Championship.... that's what you do!

 

Onward, GO BLUE!

Hensons Mobile…

January 3rd, 2024 at 8:55 AM ^

I believe Ari is genuine so I am able to accept his non-apology apology. My issue with him is how defensive he still is about it and his true lack of understanding where he went wrong in the first place.

HIs position was always a very stupid extreme: It's literally never happened before, therefore it literally cannot happen. No room for nuance, circumstance, consideration of other factors, ability to recognize the impact of the portal...just this hardline cause-and-effect that he acted like was an unbreakable law of physics. And though he says he's wrong now, he still believes he was correct to take that position because he was right up until the day he wasn't. (Basing this on the podcast, not the article which I don't have access to.)

As for Mandel, don't listen to him and don't read him. But was he previously saying the title would be tainted back in November? Because if so, there's no new information that should have changed his mind. We already knew heading into the Michigan State game that Stalions would be a non-factor for all of our games that actually mattered. For most people (who aren't straight up haters) this was really all settled after the OSU game. So if he's just doing a Finebaum (i.e., oh shit, Michigan might win it all, I better walk everything back) then he can Die Mad as far as I'm concerned. Apology not accepted.

Ernis

January 3rd, 2024 at 9:43 AM ^

All bias as an M fan aside, I think the biggest tell in all this is that Mandel and Wasserman and others don’t really understand what they’re looking at on a football field. They look at stats and recruiting rankings because that makes sense to them. They cook up drama because that makes sense to them. The game itself does not; it’s as if they see the actual game as it’s played as a black box where things like “speed” and “starz” are input then “stats” and “wins” are spit out.

Which, suffice to say, is a pretty good indication that nobody should pay attention to what they have to say about sports, regardless of affiliation. But much -if not most- of their audience probably has that same “black box” view. How many times did we hear, going into the game, how Bama was going to win because of Harbaugh’s bowl record, or some other measurable output of highly dubious relevance to the game being played between two current teams? These people don’t know what they’re looking at. How it all works, might as well be magic.

And at the risk of being way too TLDR, this gets to why I’ve hated ESPN for so long. Their business model peddles this “black box” perspective, because to grow the market of sports viewership you have to make sports appeal to people who don’t really know how to interpret it. So the focus is on drama and measurable lagging indicators (such as historical records) instead of technique, strategy, team culture (in a meaningful, specific way). Now, it’s changing some, and we are getting better quality analysis from former players, coaches, etc. and better analytics. But the shock jocks and know-nothings should continue to be ignored because they don’t know a damn thing. Ok, that’s my rant.

Needs

January 3rd, 2024 at 10:16 AM ^

Mandel doesn’t understand what’s going on on the field and, the Stallions thing reveals that he doesn’t understand the nature of the sport he’s been covering his entire career. The Stallions story is basically a Dr. Pepper commercial come to life. Crazed fan works his way into program and hatches bizarre scheme in the idea it will help his favorite team win. If Dr. Pepper can get that down to 30 seconds, I expect to see it next year. 
 

Think about that. Dr. Pepper ad guys understand the sport better than the editor in chief of the only national sports magazine that remains in existence. 

mGrowOld

January 3rd, 2024 at 10:38 AM ^

Well said.

On a somewhat related note here in Cleveland the lead Brown's reporter for it's flagship station 92.3 is Daryl Ruiter.  Daryl's understanding of the game he covers is roughly equal to the semi-drunk guy sitting at a bar yelling at TV because the team he loves wont run the good plays and insists on running the bad ones.  And yet the station puts him on the air and asks his opinion almost daily of all things Browns when it's clear he has almost zero knowledge of the game beyond that of the final score.  My theory is Daryl, much like Ari & Stewart werent athletes and never actually played the game.  They were most likely journalism majors who got a job at some point covering the sport but never really took the time to understand it.

These guys look like they ever did anything athletic in their life?

Ari Wasserman - The Athletic

Daryl Ruiter | WKRK 92.3 The Fan Cleveland

 

Swayze Howell Sheen

January 3rd, 2024 at 9:00 AM ^

Maybe these dipshits realized that alienating one of the biggest fanbases wasn't a long-time good idea.

Sometimes I think sports journalists forget they aren't real journalists, start dreaming of Woodward and Bernstein, and then we get all this sanctimonious crap from them.

I say: fuck these guys.

 

Grampy

January 3rd, 2024 at 9:11 AM ^

These after-the-fack mea culpas do nothing to impress me.  Both these turds couldn't jump on the anti-Michigan bandwagon fast enough when there were clicks to be had.  This is nothing more than damage control.  I remain unconvinced of their journalistic credentials.  

The Homie J

January 3rd, 2024 at 9:49 AM ^

If you don't completely and repeatedly denounce your prior position, this mea culpa garbage is just more of the same (reading the room and saying whatever gets clicks).  They know people don't give a fuck about the scandal anymore because it's clear bullshit at this point, but that doesn't make them actually sorry about their earlier message.  They're just riding whichever sentiment makes for more clicks.  Fuck 'em

maizenblue87

January 3rd, 2024 at 9:11 AM ^

To quote my favorite band, The Who, “Apologies mean nothing when the damage is done”.  Fuck these guys who have second thoughts after trashing Michigan’s reputation for months.

Brimley

January 3rd, 2024 at 2:11 PM ^

Mr./Ms. 87, we need to have a couple/several adult beverages and have some Who talk. My first Who show was in the Silverbag just days after Cincinnati tragedy and I've been going strong ever since. I regret being juuuuust a little too young to see Moon, but otherwise have some great memories.

maizenblue87

January 3rd, 2024 at 6:07 PM ^

Yes.  I’ve been strongly into The Who for 40 years.  I’m also too young to have seen them in their prime with Moon.  I did see them in 1989 at the Pontiac Silverdome (still had Entwistle then), plus in 2008 and 2017 at other venues.  Also, I’m a native of Flint which you probably know has a place in Who lore.

Wendyk5

January 3rd, 2024 at 9:23 AM ^

Scouting is an art, not a science. If stars told the whole story, it would be easy. They tell some of the story (JJ was a 5*) but then there's attitude, chemistry, work ethic, and then just luck, chance, and risk. Add to that coaches who work well together, and who buy into the philosophy and who can get all the players to buy in, too. Seems like a lot of these writers are pretty one dimensional in how they look at success and forget about the human factor -- and human motivation -- which is what makes sports so interesting.

EastCoast Esq.

January 3rd, 2024 at 9:26 AM ^

Good for them for acknowledging their mistakes. But Mandel is still clutching pearls over sign-gate.

I'm happy to let my subscription expire at the end of this month.

outsidethebox

January 3rd, 2024 at 9:33 AM ^

Today I am not, yet, in a forgive and forget mindset. Sometimes the hatefulness of someone's wrong trumps a tepid admission. There are overflowing multitudes in this court of public opinion. These are spineless, lemming-like folk who are without a critical thought. Their recent ignorant, vengefulness toward anything Michigan is inexcusable. They will reverse course just as quickly if Michigan loses next week. 

BlueHills

January 3rd, 2024 at 9:46 AM ^

I guess the population needs critics to tell it what art and music to like and dislike, which widget to buy,  and predict which sports team is going to win. People don't seem to trust their own judgement and don't believe their own two eyes.

Maybe there should be a sports writing competition, with a playoff. Then we'd know who's good, right?

I'll get out the old ouija board and make a prediction:

The sportswriters on this blog would wipe the floor with the folks writing for ESPN, The Athletic, etc.

Brian and Co. are far more entertaining, fun, and insightful.

Have any of the 'name' writers given us insights and analyses like the writers on this blog have consistently done, year after year? Have any of them made you smile the way the writers on this blog do? I, for one, don't think so.

PopeLando

January 3rd, 2024 at 10:02 AM ^

Bullshit.

These assholes spend a month and a half all but nailing our coffin shut. THEY contributed to the pervasive belief that Michigan was “cheating”. And now that everyone who wanted to be convinced is convinced, they quietly change their tune.

Bullshit.

I don’t know whether they believed this BS in the first place. But there was blood in the water, and like any shark they went into a feeding frenzy. Now that there’s no longer blood in the water, they don’t get to “oops” their way out of it.

The damage is done, and no amount of half-assed semi-retraction can fix it. They were an INTEGRAL part of a massively successful smear campaign, and I will never forgive them.

Amazinblu

January 3rd, 2024 at 10:02 AM ^

Is there any sense of responsibility or accountability in the journalism profession?

I’m not a journalist, and make mistakes in my work.  When I make a mistake - I admit it and am responsible for any repercussions or issues.  Maybe it was they way I was raised.

These individuals - like so many others - seem to be interested in sensationalism and clicks - little else.  That’s truly unfortunate.