In 2022 Marquette Law Review analyzed sign stealing in CFB

Submitted by SalvatoreQuattro on November 2nd, 2023 at 11:26 AM

I found this the other day while Googling for more information on the history of sign stealing in the sport. I found it illuminating. 
 

https://scholarship.law.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1824&=&context=sportslaw&=&sei-redir=1&referer=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.com%252Furl%253Fq%253Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fscholarship.law.marquette.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%25253Farticle%25253D1824%252526context%25253Dsportslaw%2526sa%253DU%2526sqi%253D2%2526ved%253D2ahUKEwiDqIyk9aKCAxUUj4kEHaaUByQQFnoECA4QAQ%2526usg%253DAOvVaw2mpg8zHphaLgTHWhlZi5G1#search=%22https%3A%2F%2Fscholarship.law.marquette.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1824%26context%3Dsportslaw%22

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bluebyyou

November 2nd, 2023 at 11:47 AM ^

Great find...happy to read it when I get a few minutes.  Why anyone would neg having to read a document that does some serious heavy lifting of the history of sign stealing is beyond me.

Living in TX, where HS teams use helmets for communication as does the NFL, but not college football is beyond me also. It is another manifestation of why the NCAA has outlived its usefulness.

Joined: 09/07/2009

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dosleches

November 2nd, 2023 at 12:30 PM ^

"Stealing signs in college football has become commonplace. Some may view it as gaining an unfair advantage, but the NCAA rulebook has only prohibited sign stealing when it is done live in electronic form. Sign stealing otherwise is considered acceptable behavior that is simply a part of the game. While some coaches may object to its use, the majority of college football coaches opining on the issue condone it, the NFL and MLB accept it in their respective leagues, the NCAA allows it, it has not been listed as unethical behavior under the Football Code, and several ethical theories support its practice. In today’s college football, where winning results in keeping your job and bringing in revenue for your school, a coach engaging in sign stealing is not just involved in an ethical practice, but it is a recommended best practice to keep up with their competitors."

Joined: 05/18/2010

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NeverPunt

November 2nd, 2023 at 11:31 AM ^

Conclusion: Stealing signs in college football has become commonplace. Some may view it as gaining an unfair advantage, but the NCAA rulebook has only prohibited sign stealing when it is done live in electronic form. Sign stealing otherwise is considered acceptable behavior that is simply a part of the game. While some coaches may object to its use, the majority of college football coaches opining on the issue condone it, the NFL and MLB accept it in their respective leagues, the NCAA allows it, it has not been listed as unethical behavior under the Football Code, and several ethical theories support its practice. In today’s college football, where winning results in keeping your job and bringing in revenue for your school, a coach engaging in sign stealing is not just involved in an ethical practice, but it is a recommended best practice to keep up with their competitors.

Joined: 03/26/2019

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lhglrkwg

November 2nd, 2023 at 11:39 AM ^

Columbus would self-immolate if it was determined most of what Stallions was doing was technically allowed - against the spirit of the rule sure, but technically allowed. I hope Michigan spends some money on lawyers to really press this angle

(If Stallions was on CMUs sideline I don’t think theres any escaping that thats a violation)

Joined: 07/03/2008

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grumbler

November 2nd, 2023 at 5:49 PM ^

That presumes McElwain has any interest in putting this to rest.

CMU knows who was assigned that pass number.  They could crack this mystery in five minutes, if they wanted to.  But they've no motive to put this to rest and, perhaps, see a reason to allowing Michigan to twist in the wind.

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Hensons Mobile…

November 2nd, 2023 at 12:20 PM ^

Never thought of that before either, actually. At first I had been saying it made no sense that CMU wouldn't just say, "Yeah, that dude in the picture is so and so from our staff."

But now that we can see the blue light on his sunglasses, we know that the reason they're not admitting it was a staff member is because they were using electronics in game!

Another theory I saw someone else put forth is that it was a Stalions look-alike plant from OSU so they could add this to their file.

I like either of the above explanations.

#WeAreMAnon

Joined: 09/12/2019

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The Mad Hatter

November 2nd, 2023 at 11:49 AM ^

I think it was technically allowed.  Unfortunately, the NCAA will never admit that, and Michigan won't try to argue it.  Maybe we'd take it to court if the NCAA tried to impose a draconian punishment, but I don't see that happening.

This story is going to slowly die out as we beat the piss out of every remaining team on the schedule.

Joined: 02/17/2015

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lhglrkwg

November 2nd, 2023 at 12:12 PM ^

I would be quite surprised if it wasn't him

  • Face shape is similar
  • Stallions was previously rumored to be at the game
  • He's strangely wearing sunglasses at night that may resemble video recording glasses
  • CMU does not seem to know who that guy was

Italics because I think that's the most damning. Why hasn't CMU said 'no that's Dave one of our analysts'. It's probably Stallions

Joined: 07/03/2008

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mrlmichael

November 2nd, 2023 at 12:05 PM ^

Two points on this:

1. It seems almost impossible that it wasn't Stalions on the CMU sideline. This case is easy to crack if it wasn't him. It's been 4 days since that picture came out, it would have taken CMU a lot shorter than that to see the pictures and go "uh no, that's Josh, one of our GA's in the recruiting department."

Since they have not done that, and instead launched an investigation, and had their HC go to the podium and say "I don't know how this happened," we can rationally conclude CMU has no idea who this person is. If CMU doesn't know who it is, who could it really be?

We already were kind of bracing for news that Stalions attended this game. Maybe we didn't know the full extent of HOW he attended, but we were already pretty sure he did. All of this put together, it seems almost certain the dude in the pictures is him.

2. All of that being said, this is the first evidence Stalions broke a rule for sure. The reports that came out before this said that he was sending other people to games. I'm not 100% sure that's against the rules, though some have argued it is. Others have argued it's a gray area.

No matter what though, him attending the CMU vs MSU game is for sure against the rules. But this rule has been violated before, in 2016, when a Baylor coach was suspended for one half for it.

But also all this kind of circles back to how ridiculous this plot has gotten. If you take one step back, the first thing you have to ask yourself when it comes to any punishment for Michigan is "did they break the rules?"

In the case of Stalions going to the CMU vs MSU game, that is absolutely the case. But stealing signs is not against the rules. And that's how you know this is more of a PR campaign than anything else. The media is beating the drum over sign stealing (not against the rules) because it sounds worse than in-person scouting (against the rules.) 

Would people be as mad if Stalions went to games to get a different look at opponent substitution patterns, formations, etc? I doubt it. Stealing signs in this case is no different. It's a normally legal activity done in an illegal way. They NEED the sign stealing for the narrative.

Joined: 09/22/2009

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mrlmichael

November 2nd, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^

I've said I am not convinced that the allegations at the center of this story actually broke the rules. Given the history and rationale of the rule, you could at least argue that what he was doing was not a violation.

Some of that defense goes out the window when, and I believe if, they determine that Stalions attended the CMU vs MSU game. But again, that is a pretty clear rule and we have a history (2016 Baylor) of the type of punishment violating that rule would bring.

All of this other stuff about sign stealing is just noise, it could not matter less.... except to be used as a weapon to advance a narrative.

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WestQuad

November 2nd, 2023 at 1:26 PM ^

I'm drinking homer kool-aid, but given all of the MGoLawyerin' arguments, I don't think it violates the spirit of the rule.  Spirit of the game maybe, but as others have pointed out, if they wanted to stop it they could easily make a rule against it and/or make headsets legal.  Which is cheaper a headset/helmet for every QB, or full-time people on staff whose job it is to steal signs?

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DelhiWolverine

November 2nd, 2023 at 1:16 PM ^

The author of the law review paper focuses on the fact that the NCAA rules are solely concerned about prohibiting teams from using technology to steal signs that are being given real-time during a game that is currently going on. It's also very telling that this lawyer has the same interpretation of the NCAA's rules as some of our message board experts (GoFC, etc.) - that the rules only prohibit using electronics to steal signs from a game one's team is currently playing in.

The author's analysis of the NCAA's rules comes to the conclusion that there is an assumption that teams should expect sign-stealing efforts from their opponents and that they should have a reasonable plan to change their signs from game to game to protect against this practice. The unfair advantage that the NCAA is working to prevent is a team using electronic tools to decipher an opponent's signs real-time while they were playing each other.

In other words, if OSU used one set of signs for a previous opponent and then changed to a new set of signs for their game against Michigan, Michigan's advance study of OSU's signs against previous opponents wouldn't help them know OSU's new signs for their game against Michigan. In that scenario, if Michigan wanted to steal OSU's signs, they would have to crack their code in real-time while the game was being played, and would be prohibited from recording those signs electronically or using any other electronic equipment to decode those signs while The Game was being played.  There has not been any accusation of Michigan doing these prohibited things during game-day -- only recording opponents' signs at earlier games, which is not prohibited by the NCAA's rules.

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pastor_of_muppets

November 2nd, 2023 at 2:08 PM ^

My statement isn't a super direct reply to you but I find it interesting that the article SQ posted rifles off a bunch of examples of sign-stealing and how coaches 1) realized what was happening in game, 2). adjusted for suspicions in the same game and 3). either won that game or made it competitive. 

So other teams can identify this and compensate for it all within the same contest, but UM has been doing it for almost 3 full years with total impunity? I'm just not certain it adds up.

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Coach Carr Camp

November 2nd, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^

Similarly, former Indiana University, Vanderbilt University, and Louisiana State University head coach, Gerry DiNardo, recalled that he would routinely hire a graduate assistant whose sole purpose was to steal opposing teams’ signals.  Mike McIntyre, the former head coach at the University of Colorado, went as far as saying that “[i]f you get your signals stolen, it’s your fault, not the other team’s fault.”

While there are a few coaches who believe that sign stealing is unacceptable, they are in the minority

 

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