Honest Analysis - Michigan's Defensive Recruiting

Submitted by socalblue on
Normally I post AFTER games, but while sitting here looking at Michigan's defense before the Penn State game, nobody outside of Brandon Graham and Donovan Warren scare me. That's a big problem in my eyes because you can easily run away from Graham and you can easily throw away from Warren. Defense is all about balance, and Michigan doesn't seem to have it yet (and might not have it for a while).

The thing that really brought me to write this post was the fact that defense has always seemed to be a weakness under Rich Rodriguez. Part of it is due to the fact that his teams have put points on the board in bunches and quickly putting the defense in a precarious position, but part of it might also be attributed to the recruiting on the defensive side of the ball.

Rodriguez recruits really really well.

Let me rephrase...

Rodriguez recruits really really well on the offensive side of the ball.

Ok, so the rephrased statement is obvious. Rodriguez is an offensive guru, so it's obvious he recruits well on that side of the ball. But on the other side, I cannot say the same. I can already hear the comments coming. "What about Craig Roh, Justin Turner, and Will Campbell?" Yes, Michigan OBVIOUSLY does recruit defensive players, but take a look and see what the ratio of offensive-to-defensive players recruited is.

                Offense             Defense              Athlete/ST
2008            14                      8                         2
2009             9                       9                         4
2010            10                      7                         2

So these numbers aren't THAT telling until you check the athlete section.
2008 athletes: Feagin (O), JT Floyd (D)
2009 athletes: Robinson (O), Gallon (O), Thomas Gordon (O to D), Gibbons (ST)
2010 athletes: Dileo (O), Hagerup (ST)

Heck, a lot of offensive recruits end up getting moved to defense because they can't compete with the talent on the offensive side.

This is a BIG problem. USC recruits defensive players. Florida recruits defensive players. OSU recruits defensive players. Michigan (under Rodriguez) recruits offensive players and turns them into defensive players. This should be VERY alarming.
let's get denarded

Comments

me

October 23rd, 2009 at 9:58 PM ^

make this post again in February? Your numbers show me that he has one unbalanced class (which wasn't all of his), one 50/50 class and an incomplete class. Yet you derive from that that RR doesn't recruit defense as much as offense? His grade is an incomplete at worst.

Joined: 12/26/2008

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mejunglechop

October 23rd, 2009 at 10:52 PM ^

What's his grade so far at best? I'll reserve judgment, but let's acknowledge that to give him anything better than an incomplete requires giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Joined: 07/09/2008

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me

October 23rd, 2009 at 11:07 PM ^

I would actually agree with you that the he is an incomplete at best as well. So let's just make his grade an incomplete. I think it's fair to use the old phrase "the jury is still out on this one." I am not here to defend his defensive recruiting, I only argue that it's an unfinished product. I think 1 complete class and parts of two others is insufficient data.

Joined: 12/26/2008

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kevin0353

October 24th, 2009 at 12:05 PM ^

for me. Our defense is having a few issues right now, but I'll wait to pass judgment until I see some of the young guys play after a year in the program. We have guys like William Campbell, Vlad Emilien, Brandon Hawthorne, Isiah Bell, Fitzgerald Toussaint, and Anthony LaLota who are Freshman that we know very little about and who could make an impact.

Joined: 08/30/2009

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Nickel

October 23rd, 2009 at 10:25 PM ^

Relax, we're going to be just fine. Most of the remaining heavy leans (Christian/Grimes/Olaniyan) are on the defensive side of the ball and voila we're at a 50/50 split again. There's no one more aware of our lack of depth on defense than the guy who sees them play and practice everyday. His defenses at WVU performed just fine compared with Michigan during the same period so I'm not sure why there's such a perception he doesn't care about defense.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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funkmob_starchild

October 23rd, 2009 at 10:25 PM ^

You know, call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure that Michigan's professional football coaches have a pretty good idea of what they're doing. Doesn't GR have some input on defensive recruiting? I would think he knows what he needs for his system.

Joined: 09/27/2009

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wolverine1987

October 24th, 2009 at 1:17 PM ^

He has admitted several times in the past to "not getting involved too much" in the defense of his teams, and therefore spending the majority of his time with the offense. Is it possible that because of this he leaves more of the prospecting and recruiting decisions to his D coaches, and therefore has less of an philosophical "ideal" recruit on defense than he does for offense? It would be very interesting to see if his reputation for overachieving players was built more on the offensive side than on defense.

Joined: 07/07/2008

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RichRodFollower

October 23rd, 2009 at 10:27 PM ^

Game Night Eve is a time for me to wear my rose-colored glasses and this post doesn't make that easier! My thought is that this is the reason GERG was brought in - to shore up the attraction of playing defense for RichRod. He may not have been great in "the living room" as a head coach, but I believe his experience and Super Bowl rings will draw top defensive recruits. That's what I see through my rose colored glasses.

Joined: 08/16/2008

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MaizenBlueBP

October 23rd, 2009 at 10:29 PM ^

From what I have heard man Michigan is hitting the defensive side of the ball pretty hard right now on the recruiting trail. Especially in the defensive backfield. While I would like to see more 4 and 5 star players interested in Michigan we have to prove that we are back among the nations elite before we can rake in the kinda talent USC and Florida do defensively.

Joined: 08/03/2009

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BlueGoM

October 24th, 2009 at 11:05 AM ^

Well yes. Which is the real concern here, I think. It's not like UM isn't recruiting top Defensive players, but we aren't bringing them in at the moment. The last moment defections of 2 DLinemen last year hurt. I think they were both 4* kids too. With all the attention on recruiting these days it's just a little too easy to click on a rival teams commitments, see their recruits have more stars than ours, and begin to fret. Justified? Maybe not, but still... one begins to wonder why aren't the top recruits wanting to come here... I will try not to panic until February. I'll wait and see what happens on signing day. If we have a couple more last moment defections leaving UM short on the Defense, then OK, panic time.

Joined: 08/25/2009

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Tater

October 23rd, 2009 at 11:00 PM ^

It's not like USC and FL recruit defensive players and UM ignores them. And one of the great things about moving players from offense to defense is that most of the great athletes, except many linemen, play on both sides in HS and have plenty of experience when they switch. RR and UM will be fine. I think any good defensive player out there would have to see a great program and a chance for immediate playing time, and want to play at UM. And I still think that an OSU grad somewhere slowed down Turner's paperwork to intentionally sabotage his first season at UM. All it really did, though, was ensure that he will get a redshirt year and make him a better player down the road, because he will get five years in the program instead of four. Anyway, the defense will be fine. And UM will soon be playing in the title game.

Joined: 08/13/2008

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jg2112

October 23rd, 2009 at 11:01 PM ^

Oh my goodness. I'm absolutely certain that Michigan's coaches have NO idea they need to recruit more defensive players. That's probably why they're NOT going after dozens of highly regarded defensive players with their 5-6 remaining scholarships. Except, THEY ARE. Like someone above wrote, your argument might be valid in about 3 months. It's not right now.

Joined: 11/24/2008

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MGrad

October 23rd, 2009 at 11:13 PM ^

But the work is definitely being put in. Seems like Michigan will net a Top 10 class when the final evaluations are in, FWIW. I have to disagree with your conclusion. They went a little WR crazy this year, but coaches obviously see what we see on the field this year, and I think we all expect the majority of the remaining scholarships to go towards D, except for an elite O candidate.

Joined: 08/13/2009

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TESOE

October 24th, 2009 at 12:32 AM ^

Carl Davis IMO. By got away I think I'm saying, someone who might have been interested (but we didn't offer) and in Carl's case might actually hurt us in future. Jonathon Hankins is an interesting recruit (who I think is coming for the PSU game). The truth, and I'm no insider, is that RR and GERG are setting a very high bar for DL and D recruits in general. There just aren't a lot of 275+ guys out there with sub 5 40s. BG is one. That's how he got to Winston on that big hit so quick in the MSU game. Davis and Hankins aren't sub 5 guys. The Jatashan (sp?) kid (who is also coming for PSU) is one. Recruiting for 2010 isn't over until Feb (honestly). Some years don't turn out as well as you would like. Everyone is lining up for playing time. Our record sucked last year (which is a big deal to kids who don't have a lot of football under their belt.) I could go on... gotta get beer for tomorrow. Let's revisit this post signing day (best in 2011 if we really want to get to the bottom of this.)

Joined: 09/21/2009

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Magnus

October 24th, 2009 at 2:03 AM ^

Thomas Gordon was always going to be a defensive player for Michigan. The coaching staff didn't decide to switch him. They said, "If you want to play defense for us, here's a scholarship. If you want to play offense, go somewhere else."

Joined: 07/17/2008

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ijohnb

October 24th, 2009 at 8:24 AM ^

The truth is, if you take a look at our 2010 class, and the interest level of certain recruits for 2011, the truth may not be a comfortable one. I think RR and staff want speed and they are getting that no doubt, but there is reason for concern at core defensive positions. Michigan is not going to be able to win consistently just outscoring people. On a scale 1-10, my concern level regarding Michigan's immediate future on the defensive side of the ball is a solid 8.

Joined: 09/21/2009

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Steve in PA

October 24th, 2009 at 2:03 PM ^

"Michigan is not going to be able to win consistently just outscoring people." I thought the team with the most points at the end of the game wins. Did they change the rules? Relax, recruiting is over in Feb not Oct. The old Michigan recruited more defense because they had to. The philosophy was run the ball, keep the score low, and play solid defense. It was called Big Ten Football and it never won outside the big ten. It comes down to this either we trust RR or we don't. In Rod I trust.

Joined: 08/10/2009

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tsabesi

October 24th, 2009 at 2:55 AM ^

Keep in mind that Rich Rod is not the only thing that draws recruits, and he's not the only one deciding who to recruit. The defensive coordinator (as well as other coaches to a lesser extent) are important for defensive recruitment. GERG has had a lot of success and I'm sure he will be able to pull recruits on his own merit, and he will certainly make sure that RR gets him the players he needs.

Joined: 09/28/2009

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bronxblue

October 24th, 2009 at 8:38 AM ^

As Brian (and others) have noted, last year's 3-9 record depressed recruiting a bit, plus GERG is now the second DC in the two years RR has been at UM. That will screw up defensive recruiting for even the best teams, and UM is still a work in progress. Those WVU defenses were pretty good, and UM has always been able to recruit top-notch defensive players. Don't read too much in WR-palooza from this year.

Joined: 11/22/2008

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Elno Lewis

October 24th, 2009 at 8:57 AM ^

Should I be selling my Michigan stock NOW? Defense yada yada yada. but seriously, i just want the defense to play good enuf to win. I am not sayin defense is overrated, I'm just sayin. And, maybe, just maybe some of the defenders who are recruited turn out to be good etc. Ipso Facto, I'm blindly going with the cup half full theory because life is too short and fock the haters. Potato salad.

Joined: 12/05/2008

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Todd Plate's n…

October 24th, 2009 at 9:39 AM ^

How many of the remaining class need to be solid D recruits to begin to quell this perception? Would 2-3 do it? Would Cullen, Knight/Mathis and then a D-line or Linebacker stud make people settle down?

Joined: 03/27/2009

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NJWolverine

October 24th, 2009 at 10:32 AM ^

Right now, the only issue is securing the commitments from players at need positions who are already leaning towards Michigan. They would be Christian, Furman and someone else in the secondary. More talent and depth in the secondary would be a much needed plus, so we'll see how the recruiting shakes out. As for D-Line recruiting, a lack of emphasis this year should be forgiven as we need as much speed as possible and depth/the future is okay at the positions (Martin, Campbell, Roh, Washington, Lalota). However, I would be concerned with poor D-Line recruiting in the future, starting next season. There are a lot of unknowns, but so far I think we're on the right track.

Joined: 08/31/2008

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The King of Belch

October 24th, 2009 at 11:32 AM ^

I know many will charge you full force, screaming that UM's coaches "Know what they're doing" or "UM will be fine" or"Hey, three months to go"--oh wait, they've already chirped in with that tired, old mantra. Sorry. The fact is, the schools UM is competing against ARE landing top defensive recruits, and are NOT concerned with moving offensive guys to the other side of the ball because they have a shiny new sand pit and drink lots of chocolate milk (because we all know when you do that--the sky's the limit!). And it's a topic worth discussing for two reasons: 1) UM's depth chart is SCREAMING "Fill me UP! Immediate playing time! Step right into a starring role!" AND 2) It is beginning to look like the perception of the Cirque de Michigan Athletique Department may be casting a shadow over the recruiting efforts of Rodriguez and Co. Seriously--is there ANYONE who is easier to negatively recruit against than UM right now? "Hey kid--lookie here: infighting, a drunken, ranting Rick Leach threatening to kill Barak Obama every morning, you'll have to practice 46 hours a day (we would never suggest you do that here), and Michigan snobbery that will drive Rich Rodriguez right to Florida State within the next six months!" Holy shit. But yeah, Michigan will be fine.

Joined: 07/21/2009

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The King of Belch

October 24th, 2009 at 12:39 PM ^

People with recruiting concerns are told to "wait three months"--but recruiting wins, such as if Billy Bob Stinkfinger of Crawfish Balls, LA were to commit, there'd be thirty nine threads all brimming with the joy of a 20 year old sorority sister who returned from winter break sporting an engagement ring. Support? SPEAK OUT Concerns? SHUT THE EFF UP MOTHER EFFER!

Joined: 07/21/2009

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Magnus

October 24th, 2009 at 1:12 PM ^

The recruiting cycle doesn't end until the beginning of February. That's the DEADLINE for commitments (well, actually, they can sign their LOI after that, but most don't). It's dumb to get worked up about a lack of defensive commitments right now. We're halfway through the season. By comparison, Michigan has 19 commitments right now when we only had 17 at this time last year. That class ended up ranked #6 by Rivals last year. I understand the desire for more defensive commitments, but it's not like these coaches aren't recruiting defensive players. At the same time, it's okay to get excited about a commitment right now. It's like getting a Christmas present early. People are basically saying: Christmas is coming in a few months, so don't be pissed that you didn't get all your presents yet.

Joined: 07/17/2008

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The King of Belch

October 24th, 2009 at 1:24 PM ^

Whenever someone raises concerns they are getting "worked up?" WTF is it with this board and the fucking Groupthink? I mean, not that this is a Michigan blog focused primarily on football, which is driven primarily by recruiting. You want to talk about recruiting year round--you don't get to just be a cheerleader and tell everyone else not to get all "worked up."

Joined: 07/21/2009

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Magnus

October 24th, 2009 at 1:40 PM ^

The final line of the OP's post is: "This should be VERY alarming." I'd say that counts as getting worked up. His evidence is the 2008 class (which Rodriguez wasn't entirely responsible for), the 2009 class (which had an even distribution between offense and defense), and an incomplete 2010 class. So...yeah. I'm not concerned that Rodriguez has 10 offensive commits and 7 defensive commits about 4 months before it matters.

Joined: 07/17/2008

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RedGreene

October 24th, 2009 at 3:25 PM ^

Total Defense 2004 WVU 36, UM 33, Florida 42 2005 WVU 15, UM 36, Florida 9 2006 WVU 62, UM 10, Florida 6 2007 WVU 7, UM 24, Florida 41 Total Offense 2004 WVU 26, UM 47, Florida 22 2005 WVU 50, UM 54, WVU 61 2006 WVU 5, UM 38, Florida 19 2007 WVU 15, UM 68, Florida 14

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