WTKA Roundtable 2/3/2022: Thanks Message Board Guy Comment Count

Seth February 3rd, 2022 at 11:46 AM

Things discussed:

  • Craig: Gimmicky Top Five reasons Harbaugh didn’t go to the Vikings.
  • What happened with the reporting on Harbaugh? Shout out to the guy on the message board who went to Stanford with Matt Weiss and knew he was friends with Kwesi Adofo-Mensah.
  • Why was he interested in the NFL? Rehashing 2021: were the new staff meant to provide continuity? Hart, Bellamy, Clinkscale, Moore, and Elston are all guys with special value to Michigan.
  • What can Harbaugh do to win back people irked and make everyone believe he’s here for good? Either a contract with a buyout that scares away the NFL, or a coach in waiting.
  • Harbaugh learned in 2021 that he doesn’t have infinite rope; Warde put his own neck on the line to keep him, Jim bet on himself, and that wouldn’t have happened if Harbaugh wasn’t a native son.
  • Craig: No head coach.
  • Next step is shore up the staff because they’re going to be imperative for recruiting, and they’re poachable after they were left in the dark this whole time. Clink is due a DC title.
  • Reshuffle them? Ron to WRs/recruiting frees up options. Seth: problem is Bellamy is a great safeties coach!
  • DC talk: Whatever you get you need a guy who can keep up what Macdonald did with the NFL-ization of the defense to keep up with Ryan Day.
  • Seth: Frustrated how people put made up stuff out there. National reporters, NFL people, even some closer to home were putting out false information. I live in terror every day that I’ll post something wrong.
[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]

You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.

Segment two is available here. The pre-segment is here. And you can watch the video here:

The Usual Links:

My theory is Weiss engineered this whole thing to get Harbaugh to take analytics seriously.

Comments

Champeen

February 3rd, 2022 at 11:52 AM ^

"

  • Seth: Frustrated how people put made up stuff out there. National reporters, NFL people, even some closer to home were putting out false information. I live in terror every day that I’ll post something wrong.

"

 

This is the 'sheep' syndrome i use to call 90 percent of the posters on mgoblog.  Once one 'popular' person gives his positive or negative position as a reply, the sheep pour on following suit.

Same with media.  Then it starts an avalanche.

dragonchild

February 3rd, 2022 at 12:09 PM ^

“Sheep” doesn’t begin to describe it. When social media businesses’ analysis showed that negative emotions were profitable, the Internet was rapidly converted into a giant toxic misinformation machine. Instead of inoculating themselves, users are knowingly, willingly amplifying the effects by embracing trolldom so these bad clickbait habits show up on even vetted sources like MGoBlog. I sympathize with Seth’s concern.

A lot of people stood to gain from stirring up confusion over Harbaugh’s situation. Tools will be tools, but even some folks here willingly took part for, what, a few minutes of attention? Cheap and pathetic.

Wendyk5

February 3rd, 2022 at 1:25 PM ^

There were a few posts on one of the Harbaugh threads this past Monday about how a team meeting had been called for Tuesday morning, then nothing was mentioned on Tuesday. The insinuation was that Harbaugh was going to make some important announcement and when that never came to pass, it became infinitely clear that there was a lot of crap floating around, and trying to determine what was legit and what wasn't was impossible. 

Wallaby Court

February 3rd, 2022 at 12:20 PM ^

The fanbase's reaction has raised an interesting counterfactual: How would this last month have played out if Harbaugh had been transparent about his intentions? Imagine that he made the following statement after Black Monday:

After seven seasons at Michigan, I still wonder if I have unfinished business at the NFL. I cannot let those questions undermine my tenure at Michigan. I intend to spend the next month interviewing to be a NFL head coach and determining if I need to return to the NFL. This will be the one and only time I pursue this opportunity. If I do not accept an NFL head coach position by the end of this month, it will be because I do not need to return to the NFL and plan to coach at Michigan as long as they let me.

Based on my augury, this statement seems to capture Harbaugh's mindset and intentions. Would a statement along these lines have made Michigan players, recruits, assistants, athletic department, or fans happier?

My hypothetical has two obvious problems. First, Harbaugh may not have known exactly what he needed to find out when he started looking at NFL positions in early January. Second, this statement would effectively eliminate him from NFL coaching consideration. While betting against the general incompetence of NFL owners is foolish, I cannot imagine that any NFL team would want to interview a candidate who does not express complete certainty about their desire to coach in the NFL.

1VaBlue1

February 3rd, 2022 at 12:50 PM ^

Such a statement wouldn't have made a difference, so far as I can tell.  We would have had the reaction of the last couple of days immediately - 2/3 of us would've said 'bye, your done here', and the others would have said he's always welcome under any circumstances.  To fans and outsiders, this statement would have made no difference.  I mean, look at twitter for almost anything - it's a fucking cesspool.

However, I do believe he said it to 'insiders' - his bosses and staff, and probably some team members as well.  I've no doubt he was honest with them, and it allowed everything to blow over inside Schembechler Hall.  I doubt there are any hard feelings...

bronxblue

February 3rd, 2022 at 1:28 PM ^

There's no statement that Harbaugh could make that included "I'm looking at an NFL job" that wouldn't have gotten nearly the same reaction we've seen.  This is a business and everyone who wanted to shitcan him after 2020 can't be surprised that he decided maybe UM wasn't his forever home and he should see what else is out there.  

Jkidd49

February 3rd, 2022 at 12:27 PM ^

The two WTKA guys reaction to this whole thing is embarrassing...  Refusal to admit they were apart of the bad reporting and insisting that anyone who is upset about a coach wanting to leave the program but lacking any options is an irrational fan.

 

Jkidd49

February 3rd, 2022 at 1:13 PM ^

You don't go from 80-20 one way to 80-20 the other way in a week and still call it firm, grounded insight.   He downplayed JH desire to go to the NFL the entire time and now that he didn't get the offer he wanted he's saying he should "spin it" like he didn't want it that badly to begin with.  To me, that's totally disingenuous but he's not ever gonna say that because he's gotta protect his access.

 

jdraman

February 3rd, 2022 at 2:19 PM ^

The reason the outlook from Sam and other Michigan insiders changed in regards to Harbaugh leaving for an NFL job is because a GM whom Harbaugh was well connected with was recently hired by a franchise with an open HC position. 

Also, Sam reported nearly the same thing that Balas and other insiders had said the morning before Harbaugh's interview: "If Harbaugh receives an offer from the Vikings he will accept". From what I have seen, no one was saying it was a 100% done deal except fans jumping to conclusions. Now that Harbaugh is returning to Michigan for next season (and beyond), Sam is positing that it is because Harbaugh did not receive an offer from the Vikings; he says as much in this podcast. 

I agree that he "downplayed" Harbaugh's desire to go to the NFL in the sense that he was not as worried as some other people, but that's just his personal opinion. Nobody truly knows Harbaugh's desires except for JH and his family. People will have differing views on whether Harbaugh was itching to get back to the pros, but those discussions and debates are better left in the past now. 

Blue Vet

February 3rd, 2022 at 2:50 PM ^

What the most famous Erik in Dayton (I’m assuming) said: Facts change. 

More specifically, life does this to all of us all the time, being virtually certain about a situation (let’s call it 80% sure), and have very good reasons for that assessment of the situation (aka, “firm, grounded insight”), but then things shift and people adjust. 

 

MRunner73

February 3rd, 2022 at 12:29 PM ^

It was a good discussion on the Round Table this morning. In order to win over nearly all of the fanbase, Michigan will need key wins over Iowa, Penn State and sparty. Then go to C-bus undefeated to face the buckeyes. So, it will take well into the fall 2022 season to get all of the fanbase on board.

The discussion about reassurances by Jim not doing this NFL thing again was very good. That's what has won me over regarding Jim staying on. I'm turning the page on this as things should work out for this football program going forward.

Erik_in_Dayton

February 3rd, 2022 at 1:00 PM ^

Not that you necessarily take requests*, but I'd be interested to hear everyone's thoughts on the Brian Flores suit if there's time in a future Roundtable.  It's understandable that we have all been focused on Harbaugh, but my guess is that Flores' case will prove to be the biggest sports story that emerged this week.  He is going full bore at the NFL in a way that I don't recall seeing (and good for him if the allegations are true).

 

*Do you guys know "Born to Run"? 

Erik_in_Dayton

February 3rd, 2022 at 5:11 PM ^

I had that exact thought about the $100,000 per loss.  Flores was apparently making about $3 million per year after reaching makeable incentives.  And now you're offering him at most another $1.6 million (16 losses) to be Shoeless Joe Jackson?  That seems absurd and, in the context of these things, insulting.  

LDNfan

February 5th, 2022 at 3:49 AM ^

But I guess that depends on how far he was expected to take it...because the 3mill was going to be paid regardless so the 100K was basically 'bonus' money. If he was only expected to lose a few games to improve the draft position by a few slots then it might not get that much attention. 

bsand2053

February 3rd, 2022 at 8:58 PM ^

I'm interested in what the criminal charge would be.  Some sort of fraud, no doubt, but who was being defrauded?  The players, perhaps?  The league?  Sponsors?  Surely they would all have civil claims but as a non lawyer I don't know enough about criminal law to speculate wisely.

Big fan of yours, by the way!

CR

February 4th, 2022 at 12:18 AM ^

I am a fan of you and Erik and all the thoughtful people who post here.

I would say what Flores has alleged would violate the federal code at 18 USC 224, banning bribery in sporting contests. Conviction carries a possible 5 year prison term. Florida must have similar laws. About a decade ago, the federal prosecutor in the Eastern District of Michigan brought a case under this statute against a bunch of guys alleged to be point shaving in Toledo games.

 

LDNfan

February 5th, 2022 at 4:00 AM ^

This is certainly true...but so to is having made that claim. Flores' career is almost certain done regardless, so he has to have receipts. No way a man in his position makes that very straight-forward claim without proof unless his lawyers are insane. 

Wolverine 73

February 3rd, 2022 at 1:11 PM ^

Living in terror of posting something that’s wrong is so quaint.  It’s pretty apparent that 90% of the media today want to be first to post something on a subject, whether or not it’s right.

ScruffyTheJanitor

February 3rd, 2022 at 1:28 PM ^

First off, Craig's idea of having no head coach is bad. Almost as bad an idea as a permanent 6-man rotation in basketball. 

Second, I would expect extensions/raises for Harbaugh and his staff and a defensive co-odinator hire would probably put about 95% of all our worries to rest. Bonus points if the coordinator is Foote, another NFL assistant, or a "Big" name from another school (Partridge would qualify here). Of course, I'd just as soon promote Clink, but that's just me.

Of course, beating MSU and Ohio State would be the only way to really slam the door shut on all the noise. 

Kilgore Trout

February 3rd, 2022 at 1:57 PM ^

I am skeptical of the idea that Harbaugh wouldn't leave Michigan in a lurch and the new staff in 2021 was part of Harbaugh's plan to leave Michigan in a good place. As I see it, Michigan brought in 6 new coaches that fall into two categories. 

  1. People that John Harbaugh sent him to help save his skin (Macdonald, Weiss, Helow)
  2. Folks that probably should have been hired years ago (Bellamy, Hart, Clink) who may have been dictated to him by Manuel

I think the 2021 shuffling was much more likely about saving his own ass than setting anything up for after his departure.

TK

February 3rd, 2022 at 2:34 PM ^

What is the connection to the state of Michigan for Steve Clinkscale? They said he’s been trying his whole life to get back to Ann Arbor, I don’t see anything in his bio that has a link to the state.

The Deer Hunter

February 3rd, 2022 at 5:16 PM ^

Great analysis Seth and how McDonald put together an NFL defense to take on an OSU NFL built offense by Day. Maybe an over-reach but OSU might have of hung 60's on Don Brown in that game...and I liked Don Brown, just not for that game. 

This was spot on and hopefully we get a suitable replacement for "one of the two seasons". 

Monkey House

February 4th, 2022 at 1:55 AM ^

I have a problem with Sam, if you are going to talk about how bad the reporting was on Harbaugh then say WHO was misreporting. Don't sit there and pat yourself on the back that you didn't do that, be a man and say these people were clearly false reporting things