MGoPodcast 15.22: And Here Y'Are, And It's a Beautiful Day Comment Count

BlueBarron March 11th, 2024 at 7:00 AM

1 hour and 59 minutes

The Sponsors

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1. The State of College Football

Starts at 1:00

We are uh. We are out of content (still managed to record a two hour podcast). With regards to Ben Franklin's sex life. Craig Ross turns 3,008, wish him a happy birthday (still hasn’t seen a worse Michigan men’s basketball team). The Big Ten and SEC got together for a working group and the thing they were working on was screwing the rest of college football. They already want a 14 team playoff with auto bids. What would be different about college football right now if Dave Brandon was in charge? Nothing. College football is great for reasons that the people who only care about money could never understand. Adding Maryland and Rutgers was the beginning of the end, Brian is going to dance on Jim Delaney’s grave. What can you even do about it besides complain about it on podcasts.

[The rest of the writeup and the player after THE JUMP]

2. Big Ten Hockey Tournament vs Notre Dame

Starts at 23:41
They didn’t make it easy but Michigan hockey sweeps Notre Dame in the first round of the Big Ten tournament. Nobody played better than Notre Dame’s goalie, despite giving up nine goals. Notre Dame is 10-1 in games where they only score three goals, they can’t score but the goalie keeps them in games. Was it an icing? No. Another week, another discussion of the terrible major calls. The Ohio State vs Wisconsin game determines whether Michigan plays in East Lansing or Minneapolis (Michigan will play in Minneapolis). Michigan is at their ceiling in terms of RPI (#10), but the gap between them and 14 is very small. According to Alex, Michigan is a 99%+ chance to make the NCAA tournament, so they’ve basically punched their ticket. Who stays and who goes after the season? Make Brian an NHL GM, he plays Football Manager and won the championship in the Turkish league.

3. Warde Manuel and Juwan

Starts at 1:03:22

Takes hotter than Warde Manuel's seat if he retains Juwan Howard. Warde Manuel has become controversial amongst Michigan fans, and by controversial we mean everyone wants to fire him except Santa Ono. What is Warde doing if he wants to keep Juwan around? Seth has been told that Warde Manuel has repaired Michigan’s relationships with the NCAA and Big Ten, Brian has curled himself into a ball and crawled under Walter White’s floor and is laughing maniacally. R.I.P. paper tickets. If he doesn’t get rid of Juwan Howard, what is actually going on? There are a lot of Fargo references in this podcast. Warde is the head of the college football committee in charge of the worst college football playoff we’ve ever seen.

4. Gimmicky Top Five - Non-Michigan Fandoms

Starts at 01:29:22
Five non-Michigan things we are fans of. Oh no, how many of us are just fair weather Detroit fans? The National Parks are good and you should go but not when I go because they’re overcrowded now! Brian does not hate National Parks, why would you think that? Who is the bigger dork, Seth or Brian? Shout out to Lindsay Ellis, the Brian Cook of film theory and why The Hobbit Trilogy is bad. Brian turns down a $1300/month murder basement.

MUSIC:

  • "Gen X Cops" — Vampire Weekend
  • “Midwest" — Vacations
  • “Forget Everything”—  BEL
  • “Across 110th Street”
THE USUAL LINKS:

"He's been in Tennessee, he could've impregnated a raccoon, we don't know. We gotta check."

Comments

AC1997

March 11th, 2024 at 8:01 AM ^

I will say prior to listening to this that Joel Klatt sold me more on the 14 team playoff than I thought was possible in his podcast.  

He argued that more autobids is better because the teams are earning it rather than letting a room full of stuffed shirts decide.  He argued that 14 preserves byes and home field....and if it were up to him he would tell the other conferences to demand second round byes.  

Buy Bushwood

March 11th, 2024 at 9:43 AM ^

Joel Klatt makes his comfortable living off the media circus surrounding college football.  He is not an impartial voice, and, even if he is better than some at balancing bias, he is still coming from the position of an inherent conflict of interest, where his financial interest is tied to the expansion of the playoff.  What these people who churn out this drivel about expanding the playoff fail to acknowledge (which was the main reason I watched college football and seldom watch the NFL, and was actually once a motto that college football used a generation ago) was that the regular season WAS the playoff, and every week mattered immensely. I was always attracted to college football because the intensity of big games, even in week 1, was unrivaled by any sport.  Of course, those were the days when Michigan might play UCLA, Notre Dame, Boston College to start the season, rather than the trash games we have now. The product is corrupted- probably irrevocably- by money and is simply a Saturday version of the NFL now, complete with free-agency, essentially two conferences, about the same number of teams in the playoff, nobody eliminated from contention with a couple early season losses.  Boring.  Thank god Harbaugh took us there in the final year before this Armageddon.  That will probably keep me satisfied until I'm in a pine box at this point.  

NittanyFan

March 11th, 2024 at 1:04 PM ^

Let's say the B1G gets 3 auto-bids.  What exactly is going to be the procedure to determine them?

The Champion, of course, that's 1.  The Conference Championship Game loser, sure, that's 2.

But then #3?  I can foresee where a common scenario is "4 teams all tied, 7-2 in conference, but only a couple games were played between them.  3 of these teams are 10-2 overall, but 2 of them played absolute cupcakes OOC, no P5 teams.  The third played a slightly better OOC, 1 P5 team but a non-Top 25.  The 4th team is 9-3 overall, but played 2 very tough OOC games, splitting with a pair of Top 15 teams."

How do we decide among that?  I suppose we can derive a formulaic algorithm similiar to the NFL tiebreakers to decide.  But that's tough, NFL teams typically have many many many more games in common with each other.  More likely - some person(s) is going to decide the 3rd B1G auto-bid.

So, in the end ..... it may be a "room full of stuffed shirts" deciding anyway.

bluebyyou

March 11th, 2024 at 1:52 PM ^

Have a conference playoff.  Do something akin to the NFL model of four team divisions and have the division winners play.  It would have been easier with sixteen teams.  Or go to 20 and have five team divisions with four divisions or 24 teams and six divisions.  Have the winners of the SEC and B1G play each other,

If you had 24 team conferences, you could have 12 teams in a playoff that matters and then the winners from each conference play.  

And if ND is not in one of those conferences, they can tune in and watch.

NittanyFan

March 11th, 2024 at 2:06 PM ^

I suppose ...... I don't love that though.

In the NFL, there's always some team like 2023 Tampa Bay.  They're decent enough, but the only reason they're a division winner is because they're division isn't particularly good.  Objectively, were the Bucs really one of the 4 best teams in the NFC (DAL, DET, GB, Rams, SF*)?

We're not going back, I get it.  But there was definitely some charm in "the good old days", really only 1 team per conference in the playoff, only 2 teams if that 2nd team was particularly exceptional.  

----

* Eagles too - but the Bucs did beat them in the playoffs.  So excluded them.

bluebyyou

March 11th, 2024 at 3:17 PM ^

Having a lesser team win happens periodically.  It's been happening in the B1G West for as long as I can remember  the B1G with divisions.

What I like about it is that there is competition in the conference right up to the last game or two.

There is no way a team like PSU, having lost to us and OSU, should have another opportunity to be in a playoff.  That is going to be the case with probably 2/3 of the teams that are selected.

I'm one of those people who has thought less is more when it comes to the playoffs.  That Michigan-OSU game every year was for all the marbles.  Going forward that will no longer be the case. While my anxiety level may be lower, the importance of the game will be diluted.

NittanyFan

March 11th, 2024 at 5:47 PM ^

I'm a "less is more" guy too - I certainly won't argue about 2023 PSU being deserving of a playoff spot.

Don't even start to get me started on baseball.  The 2023 D-Backs went 84-78, 16 games behind the much superior Dodgers.  Yet made the playoffs and won the NL Pennant!  Barf.  

bronxblue

March 11th, 2024 at 3:34 PM ^

What I don't really get is why anyone particularly cares about auto-bids as they apply to the SEC or B1G.  Those conferences are going to get at least 3 teams in per year each based on merit, and so just making that official doesn't seem particularly onerous.  

crg

March 11th, 2024 at 8:26 AM ^

I hate that Warde was more concerned about appeasement of the NCAA & Big Ten leadership & factions rather than defending his people from them.

That said - this better damn well result in both hypocrite organizations leaving the program alone now.  Things look hard enough going forward without having their shenanigans as well.

1VaBlue1

March 11th, 2024 at 9:30 AM ^

Since when does appeasement get people off your back?  In the history of everything, when a group of people succumb to an oppressor and appease their desires, that oppressor just continues to take more and more.

Warde should have been fired years ago, but he runs a fine administrative bureaucracy with good budget control.

dragonchild

March 11th, 2024 at 10:45 AM ^

I'm not quite as hyperbolic as to portray the NCAA as "oppressors" but I agree that there are no "relations" to "repair.

The B1G and NCAA are bullies and business partners.  You don't "repair relations" with them; when you're Michigan fergadsakes you throw your fucking weight around.  History of the handshake and all that.

bronxblue

March 11th, 2024 at 3:37 PM ^

Again, Warde sued the Big 10 to overturn Harbaugh's suspension.  The idea he didn't "defend" UM is wrong - Chris Partridge seemingly doing the one thing you shouldn't do during an investigation and telling players via text/messaging to not cooperate and possibly even lie is why they dropped that suit.  

And yeah, then Harbaugh left to the NFL but UM is still in the Big 10 and unless you want to be fucked around with by the conference and the NCAA for years to come he's going to have to repair that relationship.  I'm sure that was a mandate from Santa Ono as well, since he doesn't want UM to constantly be nicked for spurious reasons as well by an angry, petty conference.  The conference is run by a shitty boss but he's still got some power over UM, and so while it may be fun to thumb your nose at him that's likely only going to lead to long-term headaches.

Drenasu

March 11th, 2024 at 8:46 AM ^

Listening to the first segment, I think we are underestimating how much it was about money in the past.  I'm not saying it was completely about money, but I do think that it was a larger part of it than is being acknowledged.  The whole idea of limiting TV in the past, for example, was almost certainly because of fears that people would stop going to the actual games which was a much larger percentage of revenue at the time.

The issue is that the scale of TV money is orders of magnitude larger than it used to be and is now a much higher percentage of the revenue stream.  It is exacerbated by the fact that the in home viewing experience is leaps and bounds better than it used to be coupled by the fact that going to the stadium is less appealing than it used to be - especially for non-competitive games. Going to the game is way more expensive than it used to be and is generally more of a hassle relative to other aspects of life that have become easier.  

At the same time, universities have become much more expensive to go to and to run over time.  Public funding has been drying up and competition between the schools for the best students has ramped up.  I wish college football wasn't tearing itself apart as well, but expecting universities to not maximize revenue is probably not realistic.  It's one thing to protect the regionality and tradition over 5 to 6 figures worth of money.  It another thing to ignore it in the face of 7, 8 and even 9 figures worth of money over long time frames.

crg

March 11th, 2024 at 1:06 PM ^

The problem with people using "more revenue" to justify what is being done to college sports is this: almost *none* of that revenue is going to a damned thing outside of the athletic department.  It doesn't help the overall student body or university operations in any significant way (it might help the non-revenue student athletes, but only as a crux and cover for the monetization of the revenue sports).

ST3

March 11th, 2024 at 1:33 PM ^

The Athletic Department gives students scholarships. I believe they reimburse the colleges at out-of-state tuition rates, but whatever. A portion of the revenue is going to the colleges to pay for professors’ salaries and lecturers and stuff. Room and board is going to the dorms. I’d be interested to see what the breakdown is between AD administration salaries and revenues being directed to the general fund.

crg

March 11th, 2024 at 2:33 PM ^

The AD does give scholarships... to students that participate in AD sports.  That is still essentially keeping the money in house and not adding real benefit/revenue to the rest of the university.  Same for room/board - it is simply moving money around on the university books but not actually adding to the overall budget... and this has been going on since long before the mass monetization of the sports.  The exponential increase in the AD revenue over the past 30+ years has not translated in an exponential increase in money to the academic & support operations of the school itself... only more admins, ballooning salaries, and more buildings for AD use.

ST3

March 11th, 2024 at 2:40 PM ^

So eliminate athletic scholarships and room and board. The alternative is that non-scholarship students take those spots. They (or their parents,) pay tuition, etc. So money is being funneled into the General Fund. It’s either through the AD or through regular students.

The AD pays the University $28M in scholarship costs. That’s a fraction of the $200M budget, but it’s not zero either. University operations are also compensated for room and board.

Seth

March 11th, 2024 at 2:46 PM ^

I relistened to the segment this morning and I agree. I should have jumped in to make that point more clearly. Like even the NCAA preventing games from being on TV was about money, because they thought TV was competing with ticket sales, which were their main, ballooning revenue source. The demise of the PCC was ostensibly over punishing the Southern schools for cheating, but really it was about UCLA and USC not wanting to share revenue with Idaho when they had 10x the ticket sales.

dragonchild

March 12th, 2024 at 10:08 AM ^

At the same time, universities have become much more expensive to go to and to run over time.  Public funding has been drying up and competition between the schools for the best students has ramped up.  I wish college football wasn't tearing itself apart as well, but expecting universities to not maximize revenue is probably not realistic.

I hear your point but I'll stop short of being sympathetic.

Like, I want to be; it's true that state governments have pulled the plug on higher education.  But Michigan is also petty & greedy.  If you handed Michigan $100 billion with no strings attached, they wouldn't lower tuition by a single penny.

enlightenedbum

March 11th, 2024 at 10:00 AM ^

Lindsay Ellis' friend Jenny Nicholson is the Brian Cook of theme parks, btw.  Also one of the few people who have become internet famous multiple times independently of each other.

matty blue

March 11th, 2024 at 10:28 AM ^

i've been saying it for years.  rutgers and maryland to the big ten was the first sign of the college football apocalypse.  literally every move since has moved us closer to its inevitable demise, and make no mistake, its death is coming.

college football has been a great thing, specifically because it was a different sport from the nfl.  it isn't any more.  it's now just minor league professional football, and just like minor league baseball, or minor league hockey, or the g-league, it will turn out to be a crappy, lower-talent version of the real thing.

seinfeld joked that we're basically just rooting for laundry.  at least, up until now, i could push down that feeling by pretending that i had some connection - however tenuous - with the kids that wore the michigan jerseys.  not much longer, gang, at least not in football or men's basketball.  y'know that 'culture' we like to crow about?  bye-bye.

1989 UM GRAD

March 11th, 2024 at 11:29 AM ^

I partially agree and disagree with your thoughts.

Certainly, it's become more "professional."

But, for me, the connection isn't so much to the individual players as it is to the entire experience and institution.  Both of my parents went to Michigan.  I met my wife at Michigan.  Both of our kids are current students.  

There's nothing like that feeling I get when we exit on to Main Street on football Saturdays...and the buzz of excitement that you can feel as you get closer to Michigan Stadium.  Then, walking in to the stadium and getting settled in to the seats we've had for a very long time.  Finally, the emotions I feel when the team rushes on to the field to "The Victors."   Always brings a tear to my eye and/or gets the adrenaline flowing.  

Were it not for Michigan, my life would be very different...and less rich.  

The names on the jerseys don't matter as much to me.  

mjw

March 11th, 2024 at 10:36 AM ^

It makes me glad that "Fire Warde" has become the majority opinion (I'd love unanimity on it but when do we get unanimity on anything). 

But it makes me sad that he has not, you know, actually been fired.

rice4114

March 11th, 2024 at 1:22 PM ^

If Warde doesnt let Juwan go he will be tied to the next season as being personally responsible. This time next year when UM is 10-20 or worse it will be a no brainer that Juwan has to go and guess who is going with him? Warde has a chance to save his ass or tie himself to Juwan's back to back program breaking seasons. 

crom80

March 11th, 2024 at 10:49 AM ^

As a fellow football manager player (took Leeds to a quad starting from league1), I am all for a football manager pod of Brian playing FM.

Even a live pod with his reaction to his players missing 1 on 1 chances and him demanding his developmental players dump their current agents who are asking to renegotiate contracts with 3 years still left.

lhglrkwg

March 11th, 2024 at 12:00 PM ^

Warde Manuel has repaired Michigan’s relationships with the NCAA and Big Ten

 I'm afraid to know what "repaired" means. Was that just begging for forgiveness from Tony Pettiti?

And I've seen several Spartys be certain Warde is un-fireable because he successfully saved the university money by burying the Anderson lawsuit or something. Its good to know the great minds of East Lansing are still churning out there

ca_prophet

March 11th, 2024 at 1:00 PM ^

If Warde Manuel is doing the job his bosses want him to do, he will not be fired.  We're not his constituency; the President and Regents are the people he has to please.  So what do they want?

They want a zero-scandal, profitable AD that supports all the sports, perhaps especially the non-revenue sports, has full compliance with Title IX and all relevant laws/regulations, and generally keeps on kicking a bunch of money into the general fund without their having to get involved so they can focus on the University's greater mission.

Look at his tenure through that lens, and the "appeasement/repairs" becomes more understandable.

The Howard situation is a bit more complex.  There is a cost to firing Howard - he's a legendary alum, with a serious medical issue that's impacting his performance, and there are any number of (white) coaches who got equal or longer leashes.  A negotiated settlement would likely be best, but both sides have to want that. 

rice4114

March 11th, 2024 at 1:28 PM ^

Schemy, Matt Weiss, Connor Stallions, HC suspended half a season, Mel Person, worst Bball season in 60 years, BBall coach getting in his 3rd altercation and losing a program leader in Sanderson -also this after his zero tolerance policy was in place, losing the best BBall, football and baseball coach our program has ever had (yeah yeah I know just bad luck I get it).

I dont know man that is a helluva smoking gun. Scandal free you say?

Ernis

March 11th, 2024 at 7:49 PM ^

Yessirr. I’ve been telling people, M cares more about The Brand than anything else. And from the University’s perspective, the best value for football broadcasts is the ability to show that nice Michigan Medicine ad with the snazzy, acoustic strings take on “The Victors” — that’s the real money shot. 

As for fandom/intangibles <insert quirky cat pic> to quote Ivan Illich, “Money devalues what it cannot measure.” So apart from how our fandom can be commodified and made into profit, the presence of gaudy hordes of cash flowing through the college sports apparatus not only displaces the significance of our fandom and related priorities in a relative sense - it also casts a shadow on all of it, making it invisible to all but the at least moderately thoughtful among the decision-makers, themselves a dying breed.

kehnonymous

March 11th, 2024 at 2:26 PM ^

Hopefully the nature of the comparison won't be taken the wrong way, but the discourse around Warde reminds me of the all-time great Leroy Hoard quote: “Coach, if you need one yard, I’ll get you three yards. If you need five yards, I’ll get you three yards.”  (I suspect that quote is apocryphal, but whatevs)

As an anti-Warder, I can allow that there might be things in his skillset he does well beyond being Not Dave Brandon.  And maybe Brandon burned bridges so badly that we should be thankful for the bullshit we did endure from the conference.  But overall I doubt that, and we're in 3rd and long, and it's not within Warde's arsenal to pull out an improbable 3rd and 37 conversion out of this ass like Hoard once did.