Hoops Mailbag: WTF Edition Comment Count

Ace


[Bryan Fuller/MGoBlog]

I guess we should discuss that. The other thing, too. Let's open the floor for questions.

I'm sensing some despair. Does anyone have a more specific question?

Ah, so. Let's try this again after the jump.

[JUMP, if you dare.]

A LACK OF ATHLETICISM

I am sure that most of our fans are frustrated after the last two games.  I know that I am.  Can you speak to how we missed on all of our top targets in the last few recruiting classes?  The championship game and Elite 8 teams were made up of 3 classes where we hit on elite talent (i.e. McGary/Irvin) or the lower ranked members progressed past where they were ranked (Burke/Stauskas).  The last few classes we have struggled to close on our main targets.  Has it just been bad luck or is there something else that Beilein focuses on that limits our effectiveness to get talent? Or is it as simple as the development of Doyle/Chatman/Walton Jr/Dawkins hasn't been as good as the development of Burke/GRIII/Stauskas/Hardaway Jr were?  
 

Thanks for what you guys do,

Go Blue in Iowa. 

I'm going to twist this question into something I'd like to address after the last couple games, since John Beilein's misses on the recruiting trail—especially the Tyus Battle fiasco—have been much-discussed around these parts.

Beilein has had remarkable success both before and after arriving at Michigan by recruiting players to his system, which narrows the field of potential players to bring into the program. I have zero issue with that—if anything, Beilein's biggest recruiting misses have come when he took higher-rated players who didn't quite seem to fit his coaching style (Carlton Brundidge and Kameron Chatman come to mind).

Scoring is tough when you can't generate a clean look at the rim. [Upchurch]

In getting Tim Hardaway Jr., Trey Burke, Glenn Robinson III, Nik Stauskas, Mitch McGary, and Caris LeVert over the span of three classes, though, Beilein didn't just bring in system guys—he brought in system guys with NBA-level athleticism (Hardaway, GRIII, LeVert) and/or good college athletes whose skill level more than overcame certain athletic deficiencies (Burke, Stauskas). Those players not only maximized what could be done in Beilein's offensive system; they were big and athletic enough that when put in a lineup with a mean-ass upperclassman center like Jordan Morgan, they could play decent (not great, but decent) defense.

That athleticism is simply lacking on this current squad. Zak Irvin and Derrick Walton are fine players, but neither has proven they can consistently beat athletic defenders off the dribble—something Burke and Stauskas did with regularity. Burke, Stauskas, Hardaway, and GRIII could all finish at the rim in traffic; Michigan doesn't have that guy right now, let alone four of them. It's bogging down the offense, and I probably don't need to mention how much it shows up on defense, too. The best athlete on this team, Aubrey Dawkins, has yet to add the skill and basketball acumen necessary to take full advantage of his natural ability. I don't think that's a coaching issue—this staff's track record of development is difficult to dispute—but it stands out this year because this team has fewer great athletes than they did in the recent past.

Beilein has had some bad luck on the recruiting trail; he also forces himself to hit at a higher rate on the recruiting trail by looking for a specific type of player and person. He values certain skills very highly—outside shooting is an obvious example—but I think he's either undervalued pure athleticism of late or he's missed on the targets who best combine system fit and that level of athleticism required to hang with the best teams on both ends of the floor.

DUNCAN'S SLUMP

I believe a couple factors are at play here, but first we should define "slump": while Robinson isn't shooting nearly as well as he did in non-conference play, he's still making 35% of his threes in 11 Big Ten games on a high volume of attempts. This isn't exactly an early-season Zak Irvin situation; Robinson is top-20 in conference-only eFG% among B1G players.

Still, it's apparent Michigan has had more trouble freeing him up for decent looks. Part of that is going against better defenses. Part of that is fatigue—Robinson looked a step slow against MSU trying to break free from defenders off the ball, and the effort it's taking just to get open is likely affecting his shot once he manages to get one off.

The fix involves more than just Robinson; in fact, I don't think it involves Robinson much at all. He thrives when the other guards/wings are getting into the paint and drawing defenders away from the arc; Michigan hasn't been able to get that going of late, so they're trying to get Robinson the ball by having him run all over the place instead of spotting up for catch-and-shoot jumpers after drives by Irvin or Walton (or, when healthy, LeVert). If the main ballhandlers get going again, Robinson should, too.

I don't see this as much of a solution. Dawkins may be the worst defender on this team, which is really saying something. He wasn't effective against Indiana and almost all his production against MSU came after the game was well in hand. He doesn't have Robinson's passing ability and for all his athleticism their rebounding numbers are similarly low. Dawkins is a nice spark off the bench, but until he rounds out his game, he really doesn't add much that Robinson doesn't already do—and, somehow, I think Robinson has become the better defender.

HELP US, CARIS

What the hell is wrong with Caris Lavert? What is his injury really, and at this point, will he really be able to get back in shape and reintegrate with the team completely before the tournament. Could reintegration process be so rocky it jeopardizes our tourney chances?

Your guess is as good as mine as to the specifics of LeVert's injury and his potential return—all we're getting from the team's end are vagaries about how he's getting ever-closer to seeing the floor, but he's still walking around warmups in sweats with a noticable limp. The absurd statements about LeVert's supposed lack of toughness or him valuing the draft over this year's team are just that: absurd. He's clearly hurt in a way that would prevent him from being effective; when he can be effective, he'll be back.

A couple weeks ago, I might've had some concern about him fitting back into the lineup, which had gelled in his absence. After the last couple games, however, it's obvious how much this team needs him; if anyone on the team can solve the offense's problems, or at least assuage them, by presenting a threat off the dribble, it's LeVert. While LeVert isn't a great on-ball defender, he'd also give the team more lineup flexibility when certain players are struggling to match up on that end. The sooner he returns, the better, and I have a hard time seeing him hurt this team's tourney chances.

TOURNEY TEAM?

Yes, but it's getting perilously close. Michigan's strong start in the Big Ten gave them some cushion; over these final seven regular-season games, they can go 3-4 and still feel pretty good about their chances, and that's exactly the finish KenPom currently projects.

While that obviously doesn't leave much room for error, Michigan has done quite well when facing teams outside the top tier of the conference, and that should be their saving grace: Michigan shouldn't drop any lower than the eight-seed in the conference tournament (they're currently at #6, 2.5 games clear of #9 Nebraska), which would set them up for a winnable opening game that could very well make the difference come Selection Sunday.

Comments

MichiganMan14

February 8th, 2016 at 4:55 PM ^

Let's start with this. Injuries have decimated this team again. 3 straight years with awful injury luck. The early draft entries on top of this have derailed what was a top 10 program. The next issue is RECRUITING. We can dance around it all day long. The Football program just signed a #4 class and there is no excuse for the Hoops program to be "settling" on guys like they have been. (Xavier...you are omitted) We should be recruiting the highest level athletes and getting their signatures. It's not fair to knock any of the kids that play for Michigan or will play....buy Michigan should get the pick of the litter. Our staff has grown a bit stale in development. Regressions in Chatman....Dawkins....Doyle have all been evident. Zak Irvin has treaded water as has MAAR. Duncan and Donnal have seen improvement and DJ Wilson is still somehow not playable. He was a top 100 recruit.....this is on the staff. Coaching....Beilein has had success in this offense with an elite ball dominant guard. Without that guy...this offense...like many others becomes inert. We don't have post presence and can't play inside out because of his recruiting and Bakari's uninspiring B1G development. There needs to be at minimum...a shake up. Another year of getting blown out by Sparta should see the ball rolling on a major change. Sparty has passed us and is lapping us. Theyre embarrassing us on the court and recruiting circles around us. They're recruiting Detroit. ..and Chicago...places were not able to go and grab elite talent anymore. This bodes awfully bad for the future and the talent gap is widening if I speak honestly about it. MSU is gaining steam and we are treading water. We need a new recruitin approach ASAP. We need to be able to recruit Detroit and Chicago. We should dominate there....no excuse not to be. The last issue I see is the soft overall play. We need a chip on our shoulder. Our bigs need to play nastier. We need to recruit some Mahorns...and Ben Wallaces.....instead it's Darko after Darko. Whoever is leading the charge with the B1G recruiting has missed over and over again and there needs to be a major reassessment there. We aren't competitive in the paint and there is no excuse for it. In summary, Beilein is not going to be fired at this time. He has brought us to a higher level....like Amaker brought us up a notch. The question is...how is this program tracking? Are we progressing? We deserve to be a top 10 program. Is Beilein going to have us there in the next few years? If not...what are we doing? We didn't settle in football and shouldn't in hoops. We need to bring the SWAG and fun back to Ann Arbor. We need to be able to recruit Detroit. We need to be able to recruit Chicago. We need to not get smacked by Michigan State 4 times in a row. If Beilein cannot turn the ship around quickly, you will see AD Wade make a move. Michigan doesn't settle anymore. Michigan shouldn't settle. The university deserves the very best possible basketball program and whoever it takes to cleanly coach them there.

Lanknows

February 8th, 2016 at 4:56 PM ^

Not sure where this idea comes from because very few high flyers are major rebounders.  These guys can just get shoved out of the way most of the time.

Rebounding is about work, positioning, strength, and anticipation.  How big your ass is makes as much difference as your vertical.  Most of it is effort, a lot of it is height, after that strength.

MichiganMan14

February 8th, 2016 at 5:00 PM ^

They can stay in front of people. They don't look lost at the top of a 1-3-1. Beilein needs athletes to run that defense. We don't have an athletic roster overall from top to bottom. We should....this is Michigan...not Wisconsin. I hate our team is trending more and more Wisconsin....

Lanknows

February 8th, 2016 at 5:55 PM ^

Stauskas and Burke weren't staying in front of people either.  That's not what Beilein emphasizes.  Even Hardaway Jr - who has zero reason to be a bad defender - is notoriously bad in the NBA.

Horford, Morgan, and Douglass were some of the best defenders Michigan had and NONE of them were great athletes.

Michigan has won without an elite defense, but they need people who can do a respectable job and Donnal, Doyle, Dawkins, and company aren't getting it done. 

blue90

February 8th, 2016 at 5:09 PM ^

and none of us really know what it is.  Its recruiting, coaches, players, college ball this year and a whole lot of other stuff.  Of course MSU, DUKE, OSU and a lot of other programs smoke Beilein on the recruiting trail and it's because if they did nothing they would still get a bunch of 5 stars druling all over them.  That is not our program and NEVER will be unless someone comes here and builds a dynasty.  Those programs are already there.  We will never be there unless we get a coach who stays 20 years and has repeated success.  All of us knew coming in Beilein was the first step to that but would not be the one who takes us to the Elite Eight every year.  The next guy will be.  He is already 63 he'll be gone in less than 6-8 years.  If you thought he was gonna be Harbaugh for a bball team then you were just wrong and foolish to think so.

There is no reason to bash on him so much.  He works a thousand times harder than all of us every day and knows a thousand times more about everything we think we all know.  Beilein has been at Michigan 9 years and in that time he has made an Elite Eight, Final Four, and National Championship game.  In other words, he has accomplished his job. He has underperformed maybe, and I don't think he cares because he is doing waht he loves and playing how he wants to play.  He is not going to compeltely change his system and start paying for kid's lap dances and Mercedes in order to just go 25-5 every year.  I wish we were better, we all do but get used to this type of season fluctuation.  Beilein MAKES basketball players from athletes, he doesn't sign-up basketball players to play for two years and leave. There are programs very similar to ours, VCU, Texas, Dayton, etc, etc, who do the exact same thing.  They have some good years and some bad years but the gist of their programs is to develop players so that they can play in the NBA one day, not just be a year or two, transition point.  If you are so sick of us having 22-12 seasons then stop watching and stop commenting. Go watch another program if you can't stand anything other than final fours every year.  I personally love to see players suck freshman year and then become stars their senior year, sometimes even two or three year transitions are astonishing too.  But get used to that now or you will be complaining every single game, every single year, except for occasionally when you jump on the bandwagon and say Beilein is a great coach.

MichiganMan14

February 8th, 2016 at 5:23 PM ^

I guess I have to watch another program now. That or just settle for Mid-Major level product. And also...Beilein has a great job....he doesn't "work harder" than anyone in particular. He is getting thrashed in recruiting year in and year oit....so he certainly doesn't work harder than Thad Matta or Tom Izzo. We need to stop with the excuses and start with the solutions. Stop apologizing for the man when he is obviously not getting it done at the moment. We did lose a title game a few years ago. Unfortunately major college sports isn't horse shoes and his teams have been regressing as of late with no real hope for an elite future. This is NOT and should NOT be acceptable.

In reply to by MichiganMan14

blue90

February 8th, 2016 at 5:26 PM ^

Izzo and Matta could be lounging at their pools all day and they'd still sign players because those players aren't coming there for the coach.  There coming there for the program.

SagNasty

February 8th, 2016 at 6:49 PM ^

You do realize that those are our two rivals. Michigan basketball should be right there with Msu and osu. They have managed to build very good teams in football and basketball and there is no reason Michigan should not be able to do the same. Your argument makes it sound like Michigan is playing second fiddle to those schools and I'm not ok with that.



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alum96

February 8th, 2016 at 5:15 PM ^

For those in metro detroit Tim McCormick goes on the Sunday night sports show on Fox often during bball season (11 PM) and boy he was basically despondent about UM right now.  He threw out some stat such as UM has played 8 ranked teams and has lost by 11+  in 7 of them.

  1. Xavier (16)
  2. Uconn (14)
  3. SMU (14)
  4. Purdue (17)
  5. Iowa (11)
  6. Indiana (13)
  7. MSU (16)

And some of those games the final score is misleading - they were worse. 

I think this just shows a team's ceiling and the recruiting misses.  If you are losing to team #84 that is one thing, but when you consistently lose to the better teams it means you are what you are.  I feel these games were lost on the recruiting trail more than anything - and you needed your 5* to play like 5* (Kam) etc.

Unfortunately as I wrote maybe 6 weeks ago UM looks like a mid major team who you dont want to face in the tournament in a 1 off because on any given night all their 3 pt shooters can be on and pull a major upset.  But with little to no inside game, bad defenders, and weak rebounding that is the only way they win against top 25 teams.

I dont know it has been kind of groundhog day for a few years now complaining about lack of inside players, lack of rebounding, lack of defense, lack of athleticism.  Don't see much in the pipeline to change it. 

To one of Ace's comments -  Beilein is cognizant of this.  I specifically remember after the UK game he said they play above the rim and we don't and we need to change that.  That has not changed on the recruiting trail however.  Until it does, it's the same system team.  You can only get so high up the rankings in basketball with system - in football you can go a bit farther (Baylor, Oregon).  When we had NBA players in the system it was beautiful to watch even with the same faults.  When you don't it is like watching a mid major.

autodrip4-1968

February 8th, 2016 at 5:18 PM ^

The need is for consistent center play. The blame fall's to the player's too. These players are good enough. Each one needs to kick himself in the butt and get that fire in their belly once again. Get that Cam Newton look in third quarter look out of their mind's and go get it.

Richard75

February 8th, 2016 at 5:26 PM ^

The thing about this team is that, for two years now, we've all assumed it was only temporarily being held back, mostly by misfortune.

First it was the youth of the bigs. Then it was last year's LeVert/Walton injuries, and the OT losses that supposedly would've been wins if we'd had them. Then it was the "bad matchups" against Xavier and UConn and SMU. Then it was the injuries again.

I think we're all beginning to see now that it's just a flawed, limited team. Another thing we should also be grasping is that just because Beilein generally is strong at player development doesn't mean that he'll always develop players and teams well.

The defensive issues and the offensive stagnation are a testament to this. It isn't just that we lack foot speed; we also can't figure out how to free up Robinson offensively, or teach Dawkins how to keep track of the ball and his man on the other end.



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FrankMurphy

February 8th, 2016 at 6:31 PM ^

The problem is that Mitch McGary is the only recruit Beilein has ever signed who had offers from elite programs (unless you count Kam Chatman, but he's shaping up to be a bust). He loses most head-to-head recruiting battles with Izzo for in-state prospects (Derrick Walton being a rare exception). You can't compete with the elite programs if you can't draw talent from the same pool they draw talent from.

AC1997

February 8th, 2016 at 6:41 PM ^

I have heart all of the ranting about recruiting and I do think Beilein had a rough post NCAA stretch. But enough people bitched about that. For me it is about something different. When Beilein arrived we had just lived through more than a decade of irrelevance. Many on this board are too young to remember that. The Beilein that I grew to love is the one that took a team with two walk-on PGs to the NCAA and won a game. The JB who took a team with Darius Morris, some slow white guys, and no true center to the NCAA. Those teams had one NBA player on them and it is being generous to call Morris much of an NBA player. When we had those teams, my expectation for the program was Wisconsin. Consistently in the dance, once every few years break thru for a final four run. They run a similar system with similar recruits. So what has happened?? Good luck robbed us of the upper classmen that WI thrives on and bad luck robbed us of the two that stuck around. There is no alpha dog on this team, just the role players. Combine that with Chatman being a bust at the 4 and all the centers being shaky. What I can't figure out, however, is that WI always plays tough D. Why are we so bad??

Bodogblog

February 8th, 2016 at 8:59 PM ^

Defense isn't prioritized. And frankly they're allowed to get away with poor effort. That's on Beilein. It may have been Novak and Morgan that demanded that effort and held the team accountable, because no one is doing it now. It's also impossible to take a charge now, which was a hallmark of Beilein defense. If one could say it ever had a hallmark.

Brianj25

February 8th, 2016 at 10:22 PM ^

Need to start recruiting the local talent. Izzo will take the elite players, but there are plenty of solid guys that can fall to Michigan. Dantonio turned MSU into a legitimate football program by doing exactly that. Beilein is a good enough coach to take local stars and coach them up for three/four years and have them competing for Sweet 16s every season. Some guys that we should have pulled in right off the top of my head: 

Monte Morris (Flint) -- 15 PPG 7 APG for a title contender. 

Kahlil Felder (Detroit) -- 25 PPG 9 APG, one of the best players in CBB. 

Jalen Hayes (Lansing) -- 13 PPG, 9 RPG, great defender. 

Edmond Sumner (Detroit) -- Averaging 11-3-3 for a title contender that smoked the hell out of us. 

Darrell Davis (Detroit) -- Great defender who's hit a shooting slump this year but shot 45% from deep last year. 

Justin Tillman (Detroit) -- Big-bodied guy who plays strong interior defense and gets boards. 

Yante Maten (Bloomfield Hills) -- Huge body, averaging 16 PPG 8 RPG in a major conference. 

Seth Dugan (Otsego) -- Massive 7-footer, super raw and adjusting to real hoops but clearly has the potential to plant himself in the middle and get blocks and boards.

This is a fraction of the local talent that's been available that the staff just hasn't taken seriously for whatever reason. If we can't recruit with the big dogs then so be it...but we shouldn't be settling for walk-ons and D-III transfers (w/ all due respect to Duncan) when there are local guys available who have the potential to play at a high D-I level.  

 

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Franz Schubert

February 9th, 2016 at 12:22 PM ^

But the single biggest indictment of this staff is the lack of accountability. This team plays at far below max effort and it's accepted by the staff. Watch how Izzo handles low effort plays by his players. You have to DEMAND effort and that has not happened.