Don Brown wants to buckle down is the talk [Mark Bucholtz]

Fall Football Bits Just Wanted You to Face Me So She Could Get Behind You Comment Count

Seth August 8th, 2019 at 4:38 PM

Not a whole lot out of fall camp this year, since they're being a lot tighter with access and Sam Webb has a newborn. But I'll share what we've got.

The Sources:

I draw these bits from insiders who email me, stuff that gets posted on premium/open message boards, pressers from the program, and podcast/radio appearances, most notably Harbaugh's Attack Each Day pod, since he saves some good stuff they want to get out for that, and Jon Jansen's In the Trenches. I try to leave out opinions unless it's the opinion of a direct observer.

A hearty welcome to a relatively new poster who confusingly goes by "umgoblue11" who posted a thread filled with what I recognize as the chatter between former players, which won't surprise you is a lot like the chatter between MGoBlog readers. While he took pains to say he's not an insider, I guess some people are still going "Hey, stop pretending to be an insider." Anyway I haven't included most of that because—as the OP said numerous times—they're just opinions from guys who've been around the program, not news from inside Fort Schembechler.

Big thanks to 24/7's Josh Henschke for typing up Don Brown's presser, after I gave up trying to watch it through CBS's gawd-awful, unskippable 30-second ads-infested video of it. The Gattis one isnt' available yet but fortunately he went on Jansen's podcast.

---------------------------------

Quarterback

What we want to hear: Shea's the bomb. McCaffrey's the bomb. Everybody: the bomb.

What we're hearing: One of the insiders who emailed Brian said "McCaffrey is legit pushing Shea." On the other hand, Gattis said Shea's been awesome so far.

"I was a little bit worried about him coming into camp, because he spent so much time on the golf course this summer," Gattis told media Wednesday in Ann Arbor. "I wanted to see him more calling me and asking questions, but he’s playing lights out. He really is. It just stands out, his playmaking ability, ball placement, his footwork within the pocket. I’ve been really, really pleased. He’s playing at a really big-time level, and so he sets the standard and really pushes the bar high for our offense."

What it means: No change.

[After THE JUMP: a train job.]

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Running Back

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Now wears #3, but still has those Lytle-like scoots. [Eric Upchurch]

What we want to hear: It's fine you guys. Charbonnet's a superstar.

What we're hearing: All the injured guys from spring are playing again, but the depth chart hasn't moved yet. Two main themes have been repeated:

1) Tru Wilson is going into the season #1 and could well stay that way because he's a great blocker, and you need to be in this system. People are vastly underrating what a good football player he is.

2) They haven't had a back with as much breakaway potential as Christian Turner for as long as Harbaugh's been here.

And then a third candidate: Steve Lorenz posted some inside intel($) at the start of fall camp on Zach Charbonnet that included the decision process for the surgery he had this year.

Michigan's expectation since the beginning has been for Charbonnet to make an immediate impact of some kind. The planned procedure he had this spring was going to take place either way, but it's something the two parties conversed on and decided upon well before he arrived in January. He played through the injury for most of last year and it's reportedly something that could be managed and played through either way. However, Michigan and the family naturally (and rightfully) decided that getting back to 100% was the most important thing.

At Big Ten Media Days Harbaugh singled out Charbonnet as a guy who's been in the weight room so much he's in danger of having his name appear in all caps like some people on the team:

“Reports are really great on Zach Charbonnet,” Harbaugh said. “Though he didn’t practice in the spring, he’s been termed ‘a lot like Ben Mason.’ Strength coaches are saying that he’s a ‘stalker.’ He stalks them, he’s in the weight room all the time living in there — talking about Zach and Ben Mason — they’re both right up there at the top of that list.”

Hassan Haskins and Ben VanSumeren also got mentioned by Gattis as a guy who is having a really good fall. Jansen is pretty hype on the running back room in general.

What it means: If you're not old enough to remember 1997:

  1. I'm sorry
  2. I think this is a situation where Michigan believes it has three backs who can fill disparate roles, with Tru your main yards churner and pass blocker, Turner your second guy and home run threat, and Charbonnet the young engine whose role expands over the course of the season as his grasp of the offense does, ending the year looking like the feature back of the future. And,
  3. None of the three, nor their aggregate, will match Higdon/Evans, but they'll be very good at getting what the offensive line makes for them, and that will be plenty to establish a strong running game given the OL.

If you are old enough to remember 1997:

  1. Chris Howard
  2. Clarence Williams
  3. A-Train, freshman edition

------------------------------

Receiver

What we want to hear: More of that sweet hype from Collins and Sainristil. DPJ and Black are totally healthy and picking up where they left off. A wild Giles Jackson appears. Also things will be fine next year, and Gattis is a wunderkind.

What we're hearing: DPJ and Black are totally healthy but Gattis is really pushing them not to play like the next snap could be their last. Via several people Cornelius Johnson is already impressing—Gattis said he's "Like Mikey [Sainristil]" in his fluidity, and he's already a big body. Giles Jackson is invariably included among lists of freshmen impressing.

I've also gotten praise, even from Gattis, on Jim McElwain's coaching. As much as we've knocked ol' Lanifornication, apparently some people got the impression that the receivers got bad coaching last year. Guy who emails me says that's not true, and so does Gattis, so I'm sorry for going too hard on the man who absolutely did not shtup a shark while at Florida.

I could watch Sainristil's feet all day.

What it means: I do not think this our concern. Alternating reports of "Gattis loves DPJ & Black" with "Gattis is really riding DPJ & Black" sound exactly like the reports about Chris Godwin that the PSU writers were putting out a few years back when I helped them make an HTTV-like preview. It means Gattis is a receivers coach.

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Tight End

What we want to hear: Movement on the redshirted freshmen.

What we're hearing: Some positives on Sean McKeon, mostly in the mental aspects. Gattis said Sean was playing great in spring but Eubanks wasn't; Eubanks came back to fall and really started playing at a "big time level." We've maintained McKeon had the most thrown on his plate when the offense suddenly changed directions mid-season—more of an OSU-style H-back role than a Harbaugh TE. The things being said are "he had a tough year" and he came back "in much better shape" (Ira on the WTKA Roundtable). Ira also mentioned Mustapha Muhammad is establishing himself as a third guy, though on the Jansen pod Gattis mentioned Mustapha after All (and didn't mention Schoonmaker).

Erick All is showing out, via everybody.

What it means: McKeon's matured and changed his approach, and the coaches are trying to find a way to say that in a football sense. Good to hear about Muhammad, since Schoonmaker was expected to take another year to develop and All was getting a lot of positive mention.

------------------------------

Offensive Line

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Dammit freshman, I said you're on the MIKE, not line up on Mike. [Patrick Barron]

What we want to hear: Update on the tackle battle.

What we're hearing: Nothing yet on that or last year's two-deep other than the standard leadership/best season stuff—Gattis said it's a good problem to have because they've "got two guys who can get the job done" and "both of those guys are going to play for us."

Onwenu's really down to 350* from 350** and it's really showing in his footwork and stamina, says umbig11. 

Down-roster, Lorenz posted some inside intel ($) about the two freshmen impressing early, particularly Carpenter. That jives with a post here from umbig11 that included Rumler and Carpenter as true freshmen who will see the field along with the obvious ones (Charbonnet, Sainristil, Giles, Dax, All, and the DTs). In the roster overanalysis I mentioned those two freshmen OL as players who arrived already college-shaped.

What it means: We were expecting this from Rumler, who's been way ahead of his classmates in development for some time. The Carpenter inclusion sounds like the coaches think they've found a new Caesar. Looks like there's going to be quite a battle for the center position in the future.

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Defense In General:

What we're hearing: The fastest defense they've had is the talk.

What it means:

You have reputation. Don Brown gets it done is the talk. /opens door to end of last year. You see this man? Eh, he does not do the job. I show you what I do with him, and now for you my reputation is fact. Is solid. You beat the OSU for me, then you are solid.

------------------------------

Defensive Tackle

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Banged up? Really? [Barron]

What we want to hear: Dwumfour blowing up, Kemp rocked up, depth pushing through.

What we're hearing: Things were going so well until Dwumfour was held out of practice for a few days. The reason given was "just a little banged up," and Dwumfour is expected back today.

Carlo Kemp has been named a captain and named most improved:

Probably the most improved guy that I could speak on behalf would be Carlo Kemp. Stronger, way faster, confident, just body language and the whole deal. Leadership, really playing at a high level.

Jansen added Kemp "is primed and ready for a breakout year" after Brown said Kemp might have made the largest improvement of any guy he's ever seen, and admits he was referring to Kemp when he was talking about team speed.

Word on the next rank is all "like what we've seen" and "had a really nice five days" from spring hype magnet Donovan Jeter. BEN MASON sounds like a package guy:

Ben Mason, vastly improved obviously. As a former fullback, running back, tight end, whatever you want to call him. We put him into that mix and we feel good about him.

The freshmen are coming in as guys "We'd like to see things from" with Hinton in and out of the impressive freshmen discussion depending on who's asking.

What it means: Kemp is the talk. /opens door to depth concerns. You see this man?

------------------------------

Defensive End

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Kwity been all over [Fuller]

What we want to hear: Embarrassment of riches despite graduating an embarrassment of riches.

What we're hearing: Via an insider the current depth chart has Hutchinson starting at anchor and Kwity Paye at End. Last year's backups are both coming in for positive mentions. Kwity Paye is the "swiss army knife" of the defense: a 270-pound guy who can play all four positions on the line and still has the linebacker skillset from when he arrived around 230 pounds.

Via Brown's presser, Mike Danna is up 20 pounds after working with Herbert. Also Luigi Vilain has not turned into a pumpkin yet this offseason:

Luiji Villain, healthy, made it through all of the spring (knocks on wood) and made it through the first five practices and doing some good things.

Steve Lorenz's notes from fall camp($) led off with some nice words about Aidan Hutchinson.

A breakout of some kind seems imminent here. Worth noting that he did work out with the TB12 team earlier this summer.

That tracks with what Don Brown told the media in his presser, when Hutch2 was the first DL mentioned.

What it means: Danna is getting up to speed, so don't read anything into his current depth chart position. All systems go for Aidan and Kwity. Probably another year before Vilain is past his injuries. I'm counting him as a double-redshirt freshman in my mind right now. Current depth chart:

Anchor Tackle Nose End
Hutchinson Dwumfour Kemp Paye
Danna Mason Jeter Vilain

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Linebacker

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McGrone's getting there. [Barron]

What we want to hear: Takeoff point for younger guys like Cam McGrone, Jordan Anthony. Where's Uche?

What we're hearing: All systems go on Josh. Brown on Ross:

He's the brightest linebacker I've been around in a long time. Even when he was injured in spring, this guy knows his stuff. You don't have to worry about what kind of a days work you get out of Josh Ross.

Brown then said he thinks Ross, McGrone, Glasgow, Gil, and Anthony could start at most schools, he's got "five guys who can play" etc. In the Jansen podcast Cam McGrone is said to have the same speed Bush had, and is making a move past Jordan Anthony.

At viper, Brown thinks Khaleke Hudson was thinking too much last year after getting nailed with some targeting penalties. Anthony Solomon was one the three freshmen Brown mentioned in the Jansen pod and his presser—it's notable that Michigan has moved both Glasgow and Michael Barrett to the WLB competition—guessing Glasgow remains the backup Viper but they like him enough to give him a shot at starting.

Jansen asked: Josh Uche is playing SAM. Excellent edge rusher, great internal blitzer, and inherits the job from Furbush, but they'll have him in there as the Cheetah edge rusher in third down packages.

What it means: A dude and four guys. The most interesting thing is Jordan Glasgow pushing a multi-year starter at WLB. I think the MLB depth chart behind Ross is still shaking out as McGrone proves himself. I wasn't impressed by Anthony's tape in spring—he was a regular victim of Gattis's games—but for all the talk about McGrone it's noteworthy that Anthony is right there too.

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Safety

What we want to hear: Daxton Hill is a wunderkind. Big breakout from guys down the roster.

What we're hearing: In HTTV we guess Hill would start from the beginning, and that seemed all the more likely when Harbaugh said on air in May that Daxton is going to have to play right away. On that: 1) Duh. 2) You never hear a coach say that though. This is both our concern and a good thing for Daxton. Also a good thing for Daxton: a practice observer notes he already had five interceptions in three practices. The down note: it's all against 3rd and 4th stringers.

This was to be expected: Hill is behind Metellus, Hawkins, and J'Marick Woods. WolverineWire's Isaiah Hole has a guy who assures the body is as advertised:

Daxton Hill is looking the part of a five-star, and ‘is a great centerfield player.’ Also told that he ‘covers a lot of ground,’ but as Brown noted to the media: he’s going through the bridge program (freshman classes) while acclimating to college football simultaneously. It could take a little time to acclimate as such, given the new workload.

An ITF on Rivals when the Ambry news came out repeated a rumor of Daxton Hill playing cornerback and I immediately guessed it came from someone who was watching those unofficial 7 on 7s and took a nickel for a cornerback. UMBig11 checked it out and confirmed: Daxton is the #2 nickel right now behind Brad Hawkins, and the #3 safety.

The good news is Hawkins might have made a move. Not in the new spot…Brown on Hawkins at nickel:

Brad Hawkins, we've kind of utilized his coverage ability as well on the slot some. We've got some ways to go ahead and make our adjustments there.

…so it's not like he's been lights out. But then in the presser Brown turned around and said Hawkins is right up there with…Josh Metellus!

Josh Metellus is playing at an extremely high level, I think, giving quality maturity to the group. He and Brad Hawkins are neck and neck. They're both in it. Who is one, who is two? Who is best, who is our second best? I can't really tell you that.

Also:

We're feeling pretty good about the way the top end of that safety group looks.

What it means: Translation: Hawkins is playing well and holding down one of the starting safety jobs, but after those two (or three including J'Marick Woods) yikes until Daxton is ready. Read nothing into a true freshman at a complicated position having to work his way up the depth chart. I do get the sense however that the other guys after Woods are not playable. Faustin and walk-on Hunter Reynolds at least got mentions; German Green didn't even get that much. It is what it is: be grateful they think Hawkins has come along.

/remembers a Rutger thing

…if a bit too slowly.

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Cornerback

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A who? [Barron]

What we want to hear: Ambry is fine, gonna be fine, no worries. Also it would be lovely to get something nice about a guy we haven't seen or heard from yet, like Gemon Green or even better, recent enrollee DJ Turner II, as Michigan gets their first look at him.

What we're hearing: The guys Brown mentioned in his presser were Vincent Gray ("…is a player"), Lavert Hill ("playing like Lavert Hill"), and Jaylen Kelly-Powell ("continued to improve, has put himself firmly entrenched on the two-deep.")

Ambry Thomas has some kind of medical thing that they've been trying to get control of which made it hard for him to keep weight on this offseason. Sounds serious, but not necessarily season-threatening. I guessed Mono or Crohn's at a guy who'd know and was told neither as far as he knows. It sounds like whatever it is they've figured it out:

Moving forward, working on the side, following all of the trainers' orders and the doctors' orders, but all systems are positive moving forward. Probably not an answer I'm equipped to give you, he's in doctor care and all of those things so that's between Coach Harbaugh and Ambry so I'm not equipped to give you that answer.

Umbig11 noted "He is working is way back to being 100% healthy. Needs to gain some weight back." Though Hole's source says that might be outdated intel--Ambry is back to a full Ambry, though conditioning still lags.

Brown pivoted right after to depth, where in the absence of that one name, we're getting nearly all of them. Jaylen Kelly-Powell stepped up during summer workout 7 on 7s and was running with the ones opposite Hill, with Vincent Gray #2. Harbaugh was still saying Gray was their next guy and has been since fall camp resumed. At Big Ten media days Harbaugh also mentioned Gemon Green and DJ Turner, but not JKP, Green, or early enrollee Jalen Perry, as potential contributors. Then Steve Lorenz did an AMA last week($) and came up with a completely different CB leader (emphasis mine):

L. Hill at one corner. I am going to go out on a limb and say Gemon Green at the other.

A few days later, Lorenz agreed Gray is in line right now with "a long way to go" ($) so that's a projection. The one bit of good news was from the Brown presser, though it's about the distant future:

DJ Turner, Daxton Hill and Anthony Solomon, those are the three really good players. There was one snap yesterday, they were all lined up on one side of the field, kind of in coverage and I'm like, wow, the ball got snapped and guys are moving and I'm saying, those three guys are pretty nifty. I look at those three guys as the bright stars for the future of Michigan football.

Hole clarified that JKP is in the Brandon Watson role, i.e. the third cornerback who's cross-trained on either side. 

What it means: I think it's unlikely Michigan has Ambry back to start the season, but he'll probably be practicing again in a month and full strength in time for the games when they really need him (Wisconsin or Iowa). At this point anyone who says much more than that is pretending to know more than Ambry and UM doctors. It's again quite clear that there's a steep drop off after Hill/Ambry.

Re: Green, that's a hell of a limb, and I like it, because it's the first we've heard anyone in the know talking about Green since he got here. If we hear a second on Green I'll start to think maybe it's possible.

In this case a lot of names means no names. At least back when they were certain it was Gray it was a good sign for Gray. But Gray's ceiling is Brandon Watson, and they're already getting close to the rest of that 2017 defensive back class being a washout, and now the Gray talk is starting to feel a lot like how things sound when the guy who's leading is a guy with some shortcomings. Please Baby Denard, give us more Green hype?

The Brown quote was also a good indication that D.J. Turner will be the hit he needs to be. Cornerback is a position where a true freshman can make an impact, and to be honest this spring it didn't look like our other freshman, Jalen Perry, was going to be up to it. If Michigan's found even a Raymon Taylor in DJII that cornerback depth chart looks a whole lot better. Wouldn't it be nice…

ETC. Zach Shaw predicts the 2019 depth chart. Photographer David Turnley has camp pics on the grams.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

A post shared by DAVID TURNLEY (@davidturnley) on

Comments

Maizen14

August 8th, 2019 at 7:25 PM ^

Sam Webb has gone on record stating he knows for a fact Urban Meyer cares about the rankings. The correlation between rankings and on field success is too apparent to ignore anymore. As far as Hoke his problem was his coaching not his recruiting. A ton of the guys he recruited became NFL draft picks under Harbaugh. 

Here's the bottom line: Even if it's a crapshoot after the top 100 players or so then that should scare the shit out of UM fans because they signed 1 top 100 player in 2018, 3 in 2019, and have 1 in 2020. That means the majority of recruits they have signed fall under what you would categorize as a crapshoot. Now compare that to OSU who signed 13 top 100 recruits in 2018, 4 in 2019, and have 8 already in 2020. 

It's not a secret why we keep losing to them every year. At least this year we have 9 starters on offense who were top 247 recruits and 6 of those were in the top 100. Would be 11 out of 11 if Asiasi and Hamilton were here like they were supposed to be. But the rankings don't matter? Come on man.

Marvin

August 9th, 2019 at 10:33 AM ^

It is not clear to me what you mean by "cares about the rankings." If you are saying that experienced coaches at elite programs care how Rivals, ESPN, 247 etc. rank players on a scale of 1-5 stars, you are not thinking about it the right way. CFB fans care about who wins the top spot in team recruiting each year, and these websites/organizations sponsor for-profit camps so players can get access to recruiters etc. and get a "bump" in the rankings or whatever, and so that the recruiting sites can make money through subscribers, who think "star rankings" matter.

In general, though, experienced coaching staffs do not care a whit about how many stars a kid has on Rivals or 247. They don't use those websites or their rankings as metrics, either about a potential player's talent level or about whether or not they should offer him a scholarship. That said, recruiting websites and services do have knowledgeable and experienced staff members, and their star evaluations (and what they see at camps) often sync up with a recruit's talent level and potential, so the end of year "team rankings" provide a decent barometer for how things have played out. But in no serious way do most experienced coaching staffs rely on recruiting sites to provide them with information on what high school players they should be targeting. In other words, they don't say "hey! Rivals has awarded a fifth start to a guy! We should offer him a scholarship!" Also, a coach may like the fact that they earned a high "team ranking" on Rivals, but only in the sense that such rankings appeal to recruits and fans. 

ak47

August 8th, 2019 at 9:15 PM ^

Weird that for some reason the guys that fit the mold for bama, Clemson, osu are top 100 guys but the ones that fit the mold for Michigan are 3 stars and that those highly rated guys are getting drafted at a significantly higher rate.

its nice and all that coaches trust their own evaluation but that doesn’t mean that much when your staff isn’t getting the  top guys on their own board. The Michigan staff didn’t believe Vincent gray was going to be better than Derek stingley, they just couldn’t get stingley. And that is the case for a lot of the lower rated guys, they aren’t the first choice of the staff either.

umgoblue11

August 8th, 2019 at 10:26 PM ^

You're 100% right with that... Stingley is a stud and every staff in America knows that. I'd love for us to have a chance with more of these upper echelon players. But my point is that there was no amount of recruiting that would've landed him at Michigan. Same for guys like Trey Sanders who I would argue is 1 to Zach Charbonnet's 1A. But we ain't never gonna get those guys. For how the stacked the deck is against schools like Michigan we do a damn good job of keeping up. Have we made mistakes? Absolutely-- 2018 Michigan whiffed on a ton of guys they should've landed. They have to move down their board. Just look at our staff today and see where Harbaugh thought those mistakes came from...

Quick without looking-- take a guess how many of the top 10 consensus recruits on 247 composite were signed by either Nick Saban or a HC who worked under him?

blueday

August 8th, 2019 at 6:38 PM ^

The one thing I never understood about Michigan football is the mindless inflexibility. The box is loaded ... run. Run run run. The other team is spread ... attack, blitz. No zone. Why is it so difficult to be flexible and adjust during game time.??? Doesn't seem like a well prepared team would need a week or more to react to a change in attack from the opposition. We can't play zone when Ohio keeps running. slants.

This is why we play the games this year. We shall see if we have a capable staff after 5 years that can win one big game.

CRISPed in the DIAG

August 8th, 2019 at 6:46 PM ^

Uche is my dude this year. My memory is cloudy, but I remember during the IU game - when the OL with the pornstache jumped on Wino's shoulder - Uche pointed at that fvcker and appeared to warn him about his near future. Might have included something about a pair of pliers and a blowtorch.

This defense plays well with swagger. I think it's still there being fed by Brown and various upperclassmen.

Jota09

August 8th, 2019 at 7:15 PM ^

So far it seems fall rumblings are working out as well as could be expected with cornerback being the big exception.  The offensive backfield, TE, and OL are basically what we would have expected going in.  No real surprises and everyone is progressing.  The great news on offense comes from the WR position and isn't even related to this year.  Johnson showing out already gives us hope that even if we lose the big 3 we will still be ok.  It is so uneventful elsewhere on Offense, the only news is what freshman are already making names for themselves. I have high hopes for the offense and this just solidifies it.  

Defense has lots of question marks coming in and is where the real action was in this update.  Sounds like we have 3 DT's we can rotate so far with Kemp, Dwumfour, and Jeter.  Always like to get a 4th, but we should be ok.  DE seems to still have a plethura of options as long as everyone stays healthy; 2 anchors that are basically co-starters, 1 established end that just needs to get up to speed and is backed up by a pass rush specialist and a finally healthy near 5star.  Seems like we are reloading at linebacker and we don't have to worry about Viper until next year.  Safety is a glass half full situation IMO.  Dax Hill isn't the immediate starter yet, but Hawkins seems to have progressed.  Hopefully Hawkins has progressed and that's why Hill isn't starting, and not that Hill just isn't ready so they are talking up Hawkins. They talked him up before the ND game last year too.  Then there is Cornerback, which yikes.  I feel super bad for Ambry; to get a random medical issue that is hard to pinpoint just as your football career gets a opportunity for stardom is crap luck.  Also crap luck, having that 5 man DB class flame out.  So having that Gemon Green projection be even close to accurate would be amazing, same with DJ Turner being ready immediately.  They constantly talk up Gray, yet everyone downplays his speed.  I know nothing, so unless Turner and Green are ready by the opener we had better hope he's a bit faster than we keep hearing.

jdemille9

August 8th, 2019 at 7:26 PM ^

Well, I feel much better about the DL situation now, still waiting to see what kind of push we get from the DT's but it doesn't seem like it'll be a position of liability anymore.

On the other hand I'm starting feel a lot worse about the CB situation. Really hope Ambry can come back to full strength sooner rather than later. Reading the tea leaves makes it seem like anyone after Hill and 'Bry is just a guy. Man, we've been spoiled with the likes of Lewis, Long, Hill and even Stribling. An(other) injury at CB would be very not good. 

At the very least it's good to hear Brad Hawkins is coming on and Dax should be good at nickel with his athleticism. 

 

Reggie Dunlop

August 9th, 2019 at 10:18 AM ^

Is Zach Gentry a QB or a TE?  He's a TE, because he switched positions and excelled.

Is Chase Winovich a TE or a DE?  He's a DE, because he switched positions and excelled.

Ben Mason wanted to play LB on the defense first and formost. Harbaugh made him a FB. Now we don't need a FB, so he's back to defense. Much like Winovich. You should start thinking of him as a DT now because that's what he is. If he plays, it's because he's better than all of those names that you'd prefer to see.

KingCarr

August 8th, 2019 at 8:02 PM ^

So we are not going to acknowledge that Shea spent his summer working on his golf swing coming into a very important season for him? Disappointing to read Gattis said that. 

Not that the kid needs to be 24/7 football but I would think a young man with hopes of a NFL future would realize he needs an outstanding season.  Shea is no lock to be drafted due to his size and average athletic ability compared to the players he will compete against in the NFL.

Let's hope he is locked in all year.  

Michigan Arrogance

August 8th, 2019 at 10:57 PM ^

Yeah, I read this section as: coaches are a bit dissapointed in Shea's engagement level and/or complacency over the summer but are talking him up now b/c either A) they can't talk about the alternative which is a flat out QB controversey and/or can't just talk up McCaffery b/c it might infer a QB controversey. or B) Shea really is just lighting it up since camp started in spite of the golfing summer.

 So they are either flat telling it as it is or they are just talking up support for Shea in public to avoid controversey and/or team leader ship issues at QB.

 

DoubleB

August 9th, 2019 at 3:59 PM ^

Coachspeak is always difficult at this time of year. Unless it's a completely new coach at a new program (where any negative comments can just be casting aspersions at the previous staff), nobody is saying to the media, "we suck and nobody knows what it takes to win here." At this point, everyone is giving a sunny face to the public.

That being said, ever since Gattis' arrival McCaffrey has gotten a lot of hype for a backup QB and Patterson has often had comments like the above tossed around about him. If they are trying to motivate their starting QB with comments in public, I don't think that is a positive sign about the commitment level the coaches expect of him. There has just been a lot of smoke around this for the past six months or so that I wouldn't be surprised if McCaffrey comes in for a non-injured Patterson (and not a planned rotation either) at some point this season.

MGlobules

August 8th, 2019 at 10:18 PM ^

Not every team has a Pulitzer prize-winning photographer tagging them around fall camp. David is a very good guy; his brother was my RA first year in East Quad.

EDIT: Just read all the comments in the thread. Unless I'm missing something the offense has some fantastic players but is in Year One of installing a new scheme, and the defense backfield is iffy again with a young line that could come together. Naysayers usually get nuked here, which I have some respect for--I like positivity myself. But I think there's a good possibility we lose a couple of games.

Satansnutsack

August 8th, 2019 at 11:19 PM ^

I spoke to a HS Senior this spring about the Bridge Program who was admitted to UM. Evidently, it’s required to attend for many freshman to bridge deficiencies in their academics. If you don’t attend, you cannot enroll in the fall. And it costs $14k.  Most of these students are minorities from inner city schools.  This girl is from Chicago. 

DJMich23

August 8th, 2019 at 11:54 PM ^

9-3 with losses to OSU, PSU and ND :(

People are expecting wayyy to much from #speedinspace. I like Gattis but he's a first time play caller. Defense takes a noticeable step backwards. This team will need to stay healthy and have a little fortune on their side in order to win the Big Ten.

KingCarr

August 9th, 2019 at 5:24 AM ^

I think you are stretching big time to make that connection. 

Harbaugh wants kids competiting in other sports not slapping a golf ball around while possibly enjoying a few adult beverages.

There is a huge difference between playing high school basketball, baseball or running track then what Shea was doing this summer. 

Reggie Dunlop

August 9th, 2019 at 10:01 AM ^

I had to read it twice. I have no idea why we're crapping on Vincent Gray. Everything I've heard or read from Harbaugh or Brown has been positive. "Vincent Gray is a player" says Don Brown in a glowing tone. "Vincent Gray has really been doing a good job" says Harbaugh.

Dude is a redshirt freshman. He's played in two games on special teams. Why are we putting career caps on him? We've never seen him play a down at cornerback. Oh, he's going to be Brandon Watson and get burnt by NFL talent on crossing routes? How the fuck would anybody possibly pretend to know that? He may never line up over a slot receiver in his life. He could grow into a top-2 CB just locking dudes up on the outside and never getting thrown at - like every other bump-and-run man corner we've seen under Brown.

I hate these posts so much. I've read and listened to all the same shit in the media, and crap like this Gray fodder is Seth's personal opinion bleeding through despite everybody on the staff publicly stating the opposite. And that's not a big deal until it fuels guys like ak47 and Maizen to start shitting all over the program because of STARZZZZZZ!! that have absolutely no relevance when actual football starts being played.

I don't care if Gray pans out and becomes the latest of 1.7 billion exceptions to the starz bullshit. Obviously I hope he does. But that's not the point. The point is a RS Freshman cornerback is impressing the DC and Head Coach and it's being painted as coach-speak bullshit while every other word out of their mouths was presumed to be gospel.

Why? I have no clue. Maybe we should ask Jim McElwain.

Seth

August 9th, 2019 at 11:55 AM ^

FFS why is it either this guy is Charles Woodson or we're crapping on him? I keep comparing him to Brandon Watson, a guy who allowed a 64.0 passer rating against him last season (40.0 before OSU), was 1st team all Big Ten, and is currently battling for a job with the Jacksonville Jaguars.

https://www.jaguars.com/news/first-off-the-field-day-8-x2772

We have some scouting on Gray, particularly from the spring game, and from insiders, and I'm trying to best take everything and synthesize it to an accurate representation of the team. Brandon Watson is much more than the Brandon Watson who had a horrific game against Ohio State.

ak47

August 9th, 2019 at 1:07 PM ^

Its because everyone knows deep down that while you can enjoy every game along the road at the end of the day only one game matters when determining the overall success of the season, and that is OSU. Watson didn't just have a bad game against OSU, he was physically unable to compete. If that is our #3 cb again but with less experiance Ryan Day and the talent OSU has is good enough to do what they did all over again.

Reggie Dunlop

August 9th, 2019 at 1:29 PM ^

"FFS"? Why? Come on, man.

Brandon Watson was 1st Team All Big Ten? According to whom? Should we start there? Let me know.

But Gray's ceiling is Brandon Watson, and they're already getting close to the rest of that 2017 defensive back class being a washout, and now the Gray talk is starting to feel a lot like how things sound when the guy who's leading is a guy with some shortcomings.

You're trying to tell me what you meant by that is that he's going to top-out at First Team All Big Ten? A guy with some "shortcomings" leading by default? Sure, Jan.

You could've picked Hill, Long, Stribling, Lewis. Those were All Big Ten corners, if that's what you meant. You didn't. You picked the 5-year unheralded CB that was universally overlooked, dismissed and hated on by this fanbase because of his reputation of being too slow just before becoming the goat (not the GOAT) of the OSU game.

You were sure to point out that (emphasis yours) Gemon Green might have overtaken him opposite Hill per Lorenz. And you were sure to immediately follow that up with Lorenz's take that Gray has, and you quoted for full effect, "a long way to go".

And further still, you lead with "The one bit of good news from the Brown presser..."  completely dismissing "Vincent Gray is a player" as if it wasn't a positive. Sure to quote Lorenz's opinion verbatim. Completely dismissive of Brown's.

You conclude with "In this case a lot of names means no names." That's where you pull the Gray-Watson comparison, which is absolutely not a compliment when you follow it by praying to Brian's kid that Gemon Green pans out and note the D.J. Turner needs to be a hit.

-----------------------

Recap complete. In context, everything in there paints a clear picture that you personally don't think much of Gray and hope we find a more capable/athletic/pure-bred option. To then try to cover your tracks and say "Brandon Watson was 1st Team All B1G!"  Well, as far as I know, he wasn't. And dude, that's not what you meant. You and I both know it. You meant capable corner who will get left in the dust when he lines up across from an elite athlete. Not trying to put words in your mouth, but everybody here knows what you meant. It's clear as day if you're following the context. That's why everybody's picking the same point of contention, "FFS".

Walking away now. Not trying to earn a time out. I just didn't like the post and definitely hated the spin zone reply playing the victim.

Seth

August 9th, 2019 at 2:13 PM ^

Fine, man. I'm hedging. I think his upside is limited, as was Watson's. I also think Watson was a good player. "Has some shortcomings" can't be read as "sucks" or else there's no point in having the phrase. If three guys on the schedule (KJ Hill, Olave, and Hamler) are just so fast that a guy like Gray can't stay inside the cushion, that does no good for the other 10 teams we face.

"Don't think much of Gray" is too harsh. What I'm trying to convey is the program keeps putting him forth then putting forth any name, and that says to me that they don't think he's going to stand up against elite athletes. That play from spring against Oliver Martin looooooms.

No, I don't take presser comments at face value. Even the most transparent staff is going to sell us a bill of goods. Those are valuable for reading between the lines, and are to be understood in context. The Lorenz quote is far more interesting because it's the first time Green's been mentioned other than when everyone is. That's encouraging in the context of Green's near non-mention, and I said I'll believe it if we get a second. If it came off like I'm putting Green ahead of Gray, it wasn't meant to and I'm sorry.

It's part of the point of these articles: see through the fluff, try to reconstruct a picture of what's really going on. And the picture I'm getting is Gray's a guy you go to war with, but also a guy who's not going to hold up against superior firepower. We've been getting that same message for months. And that means we're going to need someone else, even if they all stay healthy. That's why I'm scrounging around for others.

FWIW I was going by the @PFF_college graphics that I was RT'ing all last year but you're right, after OSU he was no longer near there.

Reggie Dunlop

August 9th, 2019 at 2:24 PM ^

I can live with that.

Sorry for all of this. In the grand scheme, who cares? Gray will be what he will be and we both hope it's good. I can definitely get a little edgy around here. I did on this post for some reason and I'm here to dial it back.

"If it came off like I'm putting Green ahead of Gray, it wasn't meant to and I'm sorry."

No, it came off like you were hoping somebody was better than Gray and I didn't understand why. You've seen something - the Martin play in the spring perhaps - and it's helped form your opinion. Lorenz's take resonates with you more than the coaches eternal positivity. There are bigger tragedies in the world.

I get it. It's fair. I made a mountain out of molehill. 22 days. Go Blue.

 

Jota09

August 9th, 2019 at 4:45 PM ^

I greatly enjoyed this back and forth.  You both were respectful and used logic to state your points.  When the situation called for it, you both were able to concede and dial it back.  And because of it I learned some things.  I feel it greatly added to the discussion.  Well done boys and way to be humble while also advocating for your opinions.  

93Grad

August 9th, 2019 at 11:04 AM ^

"JKP is in the Brandon Watson role" (Shudders)

 

The CB's are scary as hell and seem just as easy to exploit as they were last year against OSU.

JFW

August 9th, 2019 at 2:07 PM ^

A mild correction, at least for me:

"Offensive Line

What we want to hear: Update on the tackle battle."

What I want to hear is that they will make the Hogs look small, slow, and ineffective compared to their dominance of the B1G