Gibson; “We dropped a couple of interceptions. We didn’t play the perfect game, but our kids played hard. … I can’t say enough. I’m just so happy for this team.”
Brandon Smith Likely To Transfer
Filed under:
This has been the hot rumor the past couple days and TomVH has confirmed that redshirt freshman safety/LB Brandon Smith has received transfer papers and is looking to move on. Hurray.
Smith was a top-100 "athlete" in the hybrid Rodriguez/Carr class who technically committed after the transition had been announced but, like JT Floyd, was a Carr recruit all the way who was just stringing out his commitment for reasons unknown. So this could be a "Carr guy" moving on to a place he'd rather be. In any case it's the departure of one of the most highly rated players in a class entering its third year at a position, be it linebacker or safety, of desperate need.
Smith didn't seem to be working out, as he was too big and slow for safety and spent his game as a quasi—linebacker starter on skates, but there's zero upside here. He could have put on 20-30 pounds easily—his "frame" was a reason he was rated so highly—and eventually turned into a contributor at linebacker. At the very least he would have been a relatively veteran body on a defense that needs every last potential contributor. BONUS: Michigan can't even add anyone to replace him because of a mysterious but apparently real oversigning change that prevents Big Ten teams from backdating players who enroll early*. DOUBLE BONUS: Before the season I took a look at Michigan's APR and concluded that sanctions resulting from transfers were unlikely, but the attrition has continued at a pace that makes me nervous.
*(Which will definitely help the struggling conference compete nationally.)
Four pages of Posts on Brandon Smith
Dude didn't know how much he was loved...
"And I--I have shown him... that a man without hope... is a man without fear."
December 7th, 2009 at 4:16 PM
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B. Smith
I'd be willing to bet that the bottom line is the coaches wanted to move him to another position, probably LB, and Brandon did not want to do it. Doing so would require he add 20 to 30 lb, as Brian stated. Don't forget that adding muscle mass like that requires a TON of conditioning work. I don't think there was any "writing on the wall" w/r to incoming recruits. Losing him really sucks.
I'm gonna take two weeks off, and then quit.
'04 was the last class that
'04 was the last class that didn't have much attrition. By my count, from '05 to '08 we've lost a minimum of 5 players each year. The list for '08 now stands at -
-Wermers
-McGuffie
-Smith
-Cissoko
-Feagin
-O'Neill
-Hill
-Witherspoon
Let's hope last year's class is the one to finally break the trend.
'04 also happens to be the year i graduated. i think it's obvious what needs to happen. i need to re-enroll in undergrad.
Transfer theory
They're two types of student /athletes that enroll at any university. The ones that enroll for the education and the ones that see this only as a step towards the professional sports they're practicing. Of course they're a few exceptions that can prove to be in for both.
Sometimes we forget that some of those players will probably not be accepted at Michigan if they wouldn't be gifted athletes so it may be harder for them to keep up the grades necessary to be academically eligible.
Let's look at a few things here:
1. He is a redshirt freshman in his 3rd year and that's about time when things are starting to become serious in college as a student.
2. He realizes that he's not that great of a football player, or he doesn't want to put the work in to become one, which makes it even harder for him in school, because he lost his main motivation.
3. He is already a back-up player, in a bad defensive team that is bringing in some better recruits for his position which will further sink him in the depth chart.
4. He realizes that school is actually hard and he may not be able to finish it anyway.
Now what are his options here?
1. He can stay put and finish school with a diploma from a great university like Michigan (the hard path), but never make it to the NFL, or
2. He can transfer to a lower college, where he can be a starter with a slim chance of make it to the NFL and not care about the education too much (the easy path).
So like I said they're two types of student/athletes. Well I think he's not here for an education, so he will rather transfer to another college looking for his pipe dream of playing in NFL. Sometimes people are just taking the easy path in life even if that may be a mistake.
Now only time will tell if he made a mistake or not.
Good luck Brandon wherever you go!
Have to disgree on some of your points
1. I believe its only his second year at U of M. 1st semester second year was one of my easier ones.
2. I think he might believe he is a great football player and Rodriguez and staff aren't using him correctly.
3. Brandon Smith was highly rated. Now, the recruiting services may have been wrong, but there isn't any recruit coming in for safety or linebacker that should be able to pass Smith on the depth chart given two years head start and his recruiting ranking.
4. Maybe, but I don't think that is more likely than he just wasn't happy with the way he was being used and figured he better transfer while he can still play two years rather than wait and see if the coaches ever make it work for him.
Re: Have to disagree on some of your points
1. Sorry my mistake. I should have said redshirt freshman going into his 3rd year.
2. Show me a player who wants to transfer, that doesn't believe is the coaches fault for his lack of play, or development.
3. I'll give you a few LB names on the team right now who can pass him on the depth chart:
B. Hawthorne, J. Mouton, K. Demens, I. Bell, M. Jones, J.B. Fitzgerald, O. Ezeh, K. Leach, B. Herron. Remember he's position is not set in stone yet.
4. I believe he dreams more about a NFL career then a college diploma from UM.
Totally agree with what you wrote here
But I thought you were saying the opposite in your first post.
I thought you were saying that
1. He has been here three years
2. He believes he has a lack of ability
3. He believes the 2010 incoming recruits will pass him.
4. He is a quiter who can't hack it academically
Re: Totally agree with what you wrote here
Are you politician, or do you want to become one? If not why are you take my words out of context?
2. I never said "He believes he has a lack of ability", I said "He realizes that he's not that great of a football player, or he doesn't want to put the work in to become one" You just chose to ignore the second part of my statement. What I'm saying is that without hard work you cannot become a stud player and he may not want to put in the effort.
3. I never said "He believes the 2010 incoming recruits will pass him", I said "He is already a back-up player, in a bad defensive team that is bringing in some better recruits for his position which will further sink him in the depth chart" which doesn't mean that he believes that the new recruits will pass him, it means that he is already a back-up player and the new recruits will not help his cause. He still has to worry about the existing players in front of him in the depth chart.
4. I never said "He is a quitter who can't hack it academically", I said "He realizes that school is actually hard and he may not be able to finish it anyway". As you may know the scholarships are given on a yearly base, so being the fifth player in the depth chart may not guaranty you one and yes, the school gets tougher by the third year.
1. As of this point I actually corrected myself in the post that you just reply to. I could've edited the original one, but I wanted to be fair. I made a mistake, sorry! That's the least important point in my post.
To conclude, I never made him a quitter. A quitter is somebody that drops out of school. He is just transferring to another one, hence "I think he's not here for an education, so he will rather transfer to another college looking for his pipe dream of playing in NFL. Sometimes people are just taking the easy path in life". Now remember these are 18-19 years old kids that all their life had to listen to somebody telling them how good they are and how they will be the next NFL star and then they come to college and the reality of life hits them right in the face. You are not the only 4* player in there and, unlike in HS, you actually have to work hard to get better. Nothing is easy in life. Nowadays it seems that more and more kids are transferring too easy in chase of the dream of playing in NFL. They don't realize that just a handful of them are going to make it. So why not stick around and at least get a free nice education, who knows maybe in the end you will be one of the lucky ones.
I get what you are trying to
I get what you are trying to say, but people need to be careful making presumptions about a student-athlete's abilities in the classroom. On the football field, maybe you can make some generalizations about a player's abilities if he is not starting/not playing much on a bad team. But we have very little information about how a kid is doing in class and if he is cutting it in school. And let's not forget that while it is fun to believe in the "big dumb jock" stereotype, there are (a) numerous smart football players who do perfectly fine in school, and (b) quite a few students accepted at UM who proceed to fail out/scrape by in their classes.
Academic reasons may play a part in Smith leaving, but I certainly have no idea his rationale. And presuming that he is one of the "play only" players is rather, well, presumptuous on your part. I wish Smith the best in whatever he decides to do, and I'm not going to sit here and pass judgment on his decisions without walking in his shoes.
Re: I get what you are trying to
I agree with your points and that is why the title of my post is "Transfer theory". I'm not here to pass judgment and I don't have any inside information, but I'm tired of people blaming the coaches for every player that transfers. Who knows maybe his girlfriend may have transfer and he wants to follow her, or maybe he wants to be close to his family or something. All I wanted to point out is that not everything is easy in life and some people may not make the same decisions others will make. I am pretty sure they're more reasons than one for which he wants to transfer and I don't judge him for transferring.
Now you said it yourself "there are (a) numerous smart football players who do perfectly fine in school, and (b) quite a few students accepted at UM who proceed to fail out/scrape by in their classes" which proves my point that school is not so easy but not impossible. Failing to finish school doesn't necessary make you part of the "big dumb jock stereotype". Let's not forget this is higher education and every student must be smart enough to get there in the first place.
I never said about any kind of student/athlete that he's a big dumb jock, but sometimes you may lose your motivation and your focus in life. It is hard to believe he's doing this because his not satisfy with the free diploma he may receive from UofM and for some mysterious reasons I don't think he will transfer to an "Ivy League" team too, so is probably football related.
You know sometimes we have to stop being so "political correct" and start calling the things as we see them. Like I said I'm not judging him, but I'm not make him a martyr either.
He may still come back and graduate from UM.
This was posed as a theory ...
which is fine. And I agree we should look at it as a scenario, while being careful about what we are saying, or not really about Brandon. It is a shame, because I thought he was coming along and starting to see a crack of light playing time wise.
On the academic side, he wasn't academic all Big Ten (http://www.mgoblue.com/genrel/120209aac.html), but neither are 90% of the rest of the team. So no damning evidence there (though as a similar position / class group side note, J.B. Fitzgerald is).
So between breaking into playing time late in the season (when similar peers did not), and no real academic evidence, we couldn't really say if this "writing on the wall playing time / level of academic effort required" theory fits.
Not dis-proven, not proven. Sucks that he is leaving / am tired of bleeding ... ugh!
I agree that this is probably
I agree that this is probably more a football issue than an academic one, and I don't like how people keep blaming coaches for kids leaving. Smith had some nice offers from the Florida schools, so he may find his way back there.
This is a tough loss if for
This is a tough loss if for no other reason than the depth issues. Smith may not have received much starting time, but he still was a warm body at a position of need, and he might have made some strides in the offseason. I am not sure if Hopson recruited him, but maybe Hopson's imminent departure had something to do with Smith leaving?
Wow
I didn't think this could be spun into a blame Carr thing, but you did. Congratulations.
"There are a lot of fine schools and a lot of very good football programs around the country, but when you combine all the factors, only one comes out on top -- the UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN." Bo, 1998
it's not blame
People always misunderstand this and make it personal. Saying someone fit Carr's system much better than Rodriguez's is not "blaming" either coach for doing something wrong. It is stating that the player is a victim of schematic transition. No one to blame--unfortunate for the player (unless he's Mallet).
blame
Ok. I accept that. It is possible I misread the implication of even bringing Carr into the picture at this point. There has been enough divisivness already. Smith is a Michigan recruit, who may decide to go elswhere.
"There are a lot of fine schools and a lot of very good football programs around the country, but when you combine all the factors, only one comes out on top -- the UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN." Bo, 1998
This might not be a red-light
This might not be a red-light event, as some people are saying. Smith might have seen the writing on the wall. He didn't really produce anything of value this year, and...
Kovacs is a shoe-in for Brown's position next year - experience, athleticism, and the mind for that position. I think he will compete strongly for it, and would have eked Smith out for the spot, if not outright beaten him.
A HUGE DB class, with 6 (I think) CBs and Safeties (so far) that will be running around that Robinson won't know what to do with.
This MAY be an indication that Warren got his draft rating back negative and is returning, as well. Smith probably wouldn't leave unless he KNOWS that two of the four DB spots are locked up - Woolfolk and Warren. This might actually be a good thing.
NSFMF, this MAY also be an indication that Warren is definitely leaving. Smith may be jumping ship because he expects the defense to be worse next year, not better. I think this is the less likely of the two scenarios involving Warren being a factor - starting, even for a losing team, is better than sitting on the bench for a winning team.
MGoGTI
A few things
"Kovacs is a shoe-in for Brown's position next year - experience, athleticism, and the mind for that position. I think he will compete strongly for it, and would have eked Smith out for the spot, if not outright beaten him."
The two of them are not going to battle for this position. It isn't clear whether Kovacs will play it next year but is has been made clear that BSmith won't.
"A HUGE DB class, with 6 (I think) CBs and Safeties (so far) that will be running around that Robinson won't know what to do with."
You're joking right? He won't know what to do with? Maybe he will start by filling the enormous holes we have back there.
This class should address those holes, but to think he is going to have tons and tons of depth all of a sudden is a little bit of a stretch (he may actually get to OMG redshirt someone).
"This MAY be an indication that Warren got his draft rating back negative and is returning, as well. Smith probably wouldn't leave unless he KNOWS that two of the four DB spots are locked up - Woolfolk and Warren. This might actually be a good thing."
I hope you are right about Warren, that would be nice, but that shouldn't effect Smith's decision either way IME.
I really don't find any of your scenarios all that plausible to be honest. I think the reason is likely to do with his position coach not being able to make him the player he needs to be to see the field. That, or the way he has bounced around with no real position thus far. I think either of these are the most likely reasons.
I'd like to echo a previous
I'd like to echo a previous comment - something's rotten in Ann Arbor.
I'm not espousing conspiracy theories because I don't know anything - I'm as clueless as the majority of this board and as the majority of the Michigan fanbase as a whole.
I write to you NOT as a Rich Rodriguez supporter, not as a Carr supporter, not as a Bo supporter, but instead as a rational pragmatist. All I want is what works. I want championships, and I understand that getting to that level takes building, patience and time.
But something is wrong.
The feeling started out as a gentle thing in the back of my mind, uncertain and surrounded by doubt. It's increased over time.
Think of the timing here. How does this all make sense? This decommitt isn't because Carr left. If it had been that way, it would have been earlier. It's not because we're loaded - depth has never been scarcer. It's not because we're suddenly not a prestigious team - that can't happen in two bad years. It's also not because the team is bad, because we were bad the prior year too.
Something else is going on. I can't verify it, I can't KNOW it, but I can feel it in a very foreboding and intangible way. The transfers. The losses. All In For Michigan? As opposed to what? Maybe as opposed to something we couldn't see.
I want to clarify - I don't know what the solution is because I don't know what the problem is. And I don't get off on being gloomy either. Usually I'm the voice of patience and the advocate of careful, rational action. But something is wrong, and for the first time in all my long years of Michigan fandom I'm really, really worried about Michigan football, and not just because of the loss of Brandon Smith, but because of what I'm worried Smith's departure might mean.
Best of luck to Brandon in whatever he might encounter in the future.
Could be worse. Could have been Kinesiology.
Couldn't agree more
First, let me preface by saying that I am a supporter of RR. I think he is a great coach who has had tons of success throughout his career. But, I agree that there is something rotten in Ann Arbor. It just seems as if we have been under a dark cloud for the past two years, and that it is not abating at all. I cannot recall a period during my 20 years of living Michigan football in which there was so much bad news so frequently. Yes, much of it has been generated by the media, and much of it came from within anti-RR factions of our program, but even if we strain out all of the "nonsense" there are troubling issues here.
1. Yes, the team is young and has some serious depth issues. 2008 was a forgotten year, and with Sheridan as our QB, we had no shot. But this year was very frustrating. Tons of turnovers (yes, Tate and Denard are freshman and that will happen), terrible tackling, talented linebackers that COMPLETELY regressed, players simply missing their blocks and no real "decided schematic advantage" that I had hoped RR would bring. Some of this is coaching. Not necessarily RR - could be some of the position coaches, but coaching plays a factor in these fundamental mistakes.
2. The team's mental character. The players themselves admitted that the effort wasn't consistent for 4 quarters. The players themselves admitted that at points in the game, the team would get down on itself. RR admitted that the team's psyche was fragile. Again, not trying to pin this on RR, but as our leader, he needs to find a way to lead these guys.
3. The transfers. I know, attrition is common, especially during a coaching change, but the pace is alarming. I don't put Mallet, Mario or Arrington on RR. Boren is a fat turd who, like Brandon Graham said, probably didn't belong in AA in the first place. And Toney Clemens is an ass. None of that is on RR. But, while none of us know what has caused the remaining attrition, I think it is safe to say that "something" is wrong.
Again, I am not advocating that we simply dump RR and just cut and run, but I do think that something needs to be done to stop the bleeding. Is RR the problem? I don't know, and even his strongest supporters on this board (of which, I have been one despite only beginning to post recently) have to admit that they do not either. I do know that if someone would have told me 2.5 years ago that: we would go 3-9 in 2009, 5-7 in 2009, miss a bown for 2 straight years, lose a ton of the team to attition and have an NCAA investigation into our potential violation of NCAA rules, I would have thought they were mad.
Were you similarly "worried"
Were you similarly "worried" whenever players transfered under Carr, Moeller, Bo... ? I think that, if you look into it a bit, you'll find that players leave D-I programs all the time when they come to realize they are not likely to play much (in BS case, not at the position he is apparently insisting is his "best").
Players are people who make
Players are people who make choices. Just like students transfer away from U of M, players will as well. I definitely see your point.
With Carr and Bo, transfers weren't necessarily less frequent (although I would like to see data because I seriously doubt they were MORE frequent), but they were often more explicable. And I suppose I disagree with your base point - Smith was, in my opinion, slated to play quite a bit. The guy was getting tick at positions staffed either by ineffective and disappointing freshmen or graduating seniors. He played decently well off the edge against a team late in the season (Wisconsin)? Perhaps most importantly, he could have found a leadership and experience role on what would have been a very young defense.
Upon considering this more, I think that there are three possibilities for why he transferred:
1.) he had a personal issue/family issue that lead him to choose to play elsewhere - this is something that happens to lots of kids, and I hope sincerely that Brandon finds happiness and success wherever he goes
2.) he used the evidence of the last two seasons and looked ahead and determined that he wasn't going to win during his time at U of M - this is a disturbing possibility because either he's right (and that's terrible) or he's wrong and it reveals a lack of faith about the stability of the program in the locker room
3.) there is something more sinister going on within the program, the likes of which I cannot and will not speculate upon
This is the way I see it. There are three possibilities I'm able to see, and even though that doesn't mean there aren't other reasons that he could have left it still leaves deep doubt within my mind, because I haven't seen problems 2 or 3 at U of M since as long as I've been alive. Even the hint that they exist is terrifying to the Michigan fan inside me.
I see where you're coming from. I will ALWAYS support the University and the football team, but my faith that we are on the right path is undermined, and it became so upon hearing this news.
I want, as a parting word, just to reiterate that no matter why players leave, the most important consideration that they should make when deciding to transfer is their own happiness. I disagree with Misopagon's "foxhole" analogy for that reason - this isn't war, this is football, and even if it's bad for the team I love, people should not stay somewhere if it would make them truly and irreparably unhappy.
Could be worse. Could have been Kinesiology.
why?
The easy answer is he wanted to start on defense. I wish he would stay since we need as much depth on defense as possible. He was a good special teams player and who knows, he may have broken in the starting lineup next season to take over Stevie's spot? I suppose he is frustrated and thinks his chances are better starting for another team. Best of luck with your new Team Brandon. But I hope you will reconsider!
If you don't want to support your team and coach than go root for for another team! My judgment season for RR will not be until after 2011. Give the guy a chance! I hope the young defense can improve through next season and I did see some bright spots against OSU!
Wow, I really miss UM football Saturday's. Even though we were 5-7, and if you think back to every game we lost there were points in each game where one key play would have turned the game into a possible win despite not having the best defense. The kids played hard this season and I'm sure as they mature you won't see these big negative swings in confidence after one or two plays go bad.
expect the best
I don't agree at all
To think that a possible reason for him tranferring is playing time is insane. Unless you have never looked at our depth chart, I can pretty much promise that UM has one of the best opportunities in the country for playing time.
There are very few possibilities that make any sense. The one I keep going back to is the failure of the position coach to help him develop.
Seriously, what other Div-1 school has a more promising depth chart for playing time than UM does on D right now?
If he is angry because he hasn't got playing time to this point (which is only because he hasn't shown that he is ready yet), he would be kinding himself if he thought that he could go to any other major program and be more likely to see the field. I don't think the boy is dumb, it can't be playing time (or future playing time ) that has him thinking transfer.
Sometimes This Is A Crapshoot
Chris Borland, Wisconsin's LB, was named Big Ten freshman of the year. He was not even ranked among Rivals' list of the Top 60 HS players out of Ohio last year.
Iowa and UW were the only Big Ten schools to recruit him, rest were MAC. Under the radar guy. I watched him last night vs. Hawaii: the kid is a hitter, and, he even kicked three extra points.
Smith appeared to be perfect for M. I believe he had offers from tons of big schools. So who knows what went wrong? Maybe he just wasn't the player everyone thought he would be. Happens.
Sorry he's leaving, but maybe we'll find a guy like Borland. Our luck will change.
Or quite possibly, the
Or quite possibly, the coaches aren't developing the players properly. The LB's (Ezeh, Mouton) have regressed significantly in the last couple of years. And we all know what a disaster the safetys consistantly are. There comes a point where progress needs to be shown at these positions.
My God
I go away for a few hours and have a nice day with the family. I come back to catch up on things and see this miserable news. Man. I really liked Smith. He was one of the best LB's on my NCAA dynasty and now I have to update the damn rosters again.
And he piled upon the whale's white hump, the sum of all the rage and hate felt by his whole race. If his chest had been a cannon, he would have shot his heart upon it.
I know this stuff happens
but I really hope this is the end for awhile. Its beyond frustrating when you know the depth isn't there and we can't just replace a player through recruiting. I really hope Warren comes back and VS, Molk come back healthy sooner than later. We need some good things to go our way. I think after the last 2 years the fans deserve it.
I agree with you
and I think it is funny how people on this board are talking so definitively about how he would not have been a contributor anyway. The guy was a redshirt freshman people. Is it really that hard to imagine that he would have turned in to a good player in the next 3 years?
I am getting a little sick of the way people are always singing "you need to be all in for michigan" and the moment someone thinks of tranferring or gets in trouble they switch to "he sucks any way" or "he was never going to play".
This guy was taking the normal route to playing time in college football. A redshirt year and second year playing special teams with spot duty. Next year he would have got more playing time and continued on special teams (if UM had a normal depth chart) and then would have been a solid contributor in his last two years.
To bag on a redshirt freshman and say he would never have contributed is both lame and one hell of a shot in the dark.
Smith leaving is like a dong
Smith leaving is like a dong graze. It doesn't hurt at first, but later on you're trying to figure out why it hurts all the way to your lower back, and you're about to make sick all over the floor. We should all be pretty calloused in that area by now.
(no subject)
"I didn't know about that early enrollment rule until now. Thanks Jim Delany for giving us yet another way we can maintain superiority over your conference (the primary reason being your teams aren't smart enough to bend the rules like ours do).
"Now it's time for a brisk workout on my dong-shaped speed bag before tonight's coronation."
- Nick Satan, Alabama coach
"I'm going to catch the ball. I'm going to do whatever it takes to win."
- (The wide-open) Roy Roundtree
Transfer Final?
Is his transfer guaranteed?
I know that a number of players (under Carr) talked about transferring and then stayed at U of M. I know Chris Perry thought about leaving. He talked with Carr and Carr convinced him to stay.
I really hope someone convinces him that he should stay by mentioning that 1. he is the favorite to replace the graduating Stevie Brown 2. that his size/speed combo is perfect for that role in Robinson's defense 3. that in most Big 12/SEC/ACC teams his speed issue will be much more of an issue and 4. that a U of M education trumps 98% of D-1 schools.
Robin: I'm a genetic goldmine! No family history of diabetes or heart disease... I had one schizophrenic uncle, but even he had perfect vision (pause) which was unfortunate for the people around the bell tower he was in.
uggggg
for the final time. No he never has played and never will play SBs spot. He is a FS because he isn't fast enough to play SS or the Spinner, which would require him dropping into coverage on slot receivers.
Would he figure into the FS depth chart? Yea, I think he has shown he can be decent. But the favorite? I don't know. He would have to fight with Mike Williams and (insert incoming freshman here). Brandon Smith is a tweener that the coaches haven't been able to find a spot for. If he feels he can go to another program and find playing time, good luck to him.
It sucks because he was pretty good on special teams and it hurts depth.
