Thoughts on your team from a State fan -- Neg away
A few thoughts I'd like to share regarding both the game and the team:
- Denard: the man. The guy is a beast out there and what's even more impressive is his maturity. Personally, I wasn't a huge fan of Tate forcier because it seemed like all of the fame and attention somewhat went to his head. Denard is different. Much different. He will be accomplishing great things in the winged helmet in the future (maybe even this year). Even if you go through the realm of RCMB, there are posts showing him praise.
-Defense: Young. I don't know if it's an issue of not knowing the schemes, or a lack of talent, but the good news for you guys is that this group will grow together and be hungry together. Undergoing a system change is difficult (trust me, state fans know what it's like to go from spread to conventional). Next year will be a critical year to see what this defense can do.
-Rich: In all honesty, I believe the hiring of RichRod by Michigan may have been the biggest break that MSU could ask for. I don't say that in a snarky way or in vain. Just stating my honest opinion. I think he is an offensive wizard and his system is very complex and can be dangerous. I don't think he's a very good Xs and Os coach when it comes to the fundamentals (i.e. time management at the end of the half today). But, I think the main coaching flaw for Rich is that he puts a whole heck of a lot of stake in one player. At WVU, it was Pat White. They were 1 game away from a BCS championship game and what happens? White gets injured in the 4th, and they lose to a 4-win Pittsburgh team. This year, MSU stacks the box and stops Denard, and the offense sputters. Bottom line: When I was in undergrad and Lloyd was running the show, guys like Edwin Baker, Le'Veon Bell and heck even the 2-star Kirk Cousins would have without a doubt been considering Michigan before even thinking about State.
Those are my thoughts. Feel free to neg away.
P.S. anybody see Bielema running up the score on Minn late in the 4th while being up big? Class-less. I'm happy to say that neither of our coaches would do that in a game.
October 10th, 2010 at 3:33 PM ^
Because the blind defense of him around here isn't much better.
Because we're coming up with every excuse for him not winning, but we never consider the injuries and such that occurred in 2007. Funny how excuses are reasons for Rich, but there are no excuses for Lloyd.
October 10th, 2010 at 10:16 AM ^
You're a fucking idiot if you deny it. But hey I guess in your world Lloyd was coaching Jesus and could do no wrong.
October 10th, 2010 at 3:33 PM ^
Or tell me all the things he should be doing better, rather than blaming a guy who hasn't been around for 3 YEARS.
October 10th, 2010 at 3:44 PM ^
Still some of his players he recruited early into their careers are still around
How is it Rich's fault for the quitters lloyd recruited?
October 10th, 2010 at 3:55 PM ^
For the quitters he recruited? Since you're calling them that. I mean, how soon you forget your rants on Turner, and ever other guy who's left the team since. Austin White? He was just a Rich recruit. How many times have you had points subtracted for absolutely trashing a player who's left, Rich's players...and now they're all Lloyd's players. How do you live with being so intellectually dishonest?
October 10th, 2010 at 4:19 PM ^
The list of Rich rod quitters is far dwarfed by the quitters recruited by Lloyd. You don't Rich's quitters trashing the program after they leave like the douches recruited by lloyd.
Really I am being intellectually dishonest? God forbid I expect people to work.
How do you live assuming things about people you don't even know? If I was so intellectually dishonest I would never have research papers published in the journal of biochemistry.
fuck off
October 11th, 2010 at 10:34 AM ^
I hope you spell checked your paper in the Journal of Biochemistry better than this...
I'm not sure the numbers are that different at this point, but even so, comparing players leaving when they end up with a coach they didn't sign up for vs. leaving for a coach who they knew would be their coach and wanted to come play for has a lot of inherent differences. I would hope you can see that, with the amazing intellect you like to throw around in all your posts (what ARE you compensating for?). I mean, I can "assume" things about you, because you can't help but brag/expound on yourself. Went to Purdue....family background was tough...I'm so smart....lalalalala.... Yet your "superior" intellect can't come up with anything better than "fuck off".
I mean, we could compare how many papers each has had published (you might be very disappointed), but I don't really feel the need to prove I don't have a small dick on this site, like some people....
October 11th, 2010 at 3:08 PM ^
Do you want to have a mature discussion about this? I agree with players come here for different reasons. However, you don't see Rich's players that leave trashing the program in the media and to recruits like Lloyd's. Yeah, what a bunch of stand up people.
If you want to have a mature discussion rather than acting like a complete douche, then meet me at Ashley's at 5:30 pm. It is the closest bar from my lab at the chemistry building. I will be wearing a chewbacca t shit.
October 10th, 2010 at 10:58 AM ^
Lloyd Carr got Rose Bowl births, I don't care what the expectations were, those were the results, and those are some pretty good results too. Rich Rod can suceed and make his own perception out of results instead of perceptions based on past performance. What results are people who want Rich Rod out ignoring? Please point them out. Don't trash Lloyd in an effort to defend Rich Rodriguez, the fact that you feel the need to do that speaks volumes about what has happened since he left. A coach getting one recruit would never save his job. And I don't know why you put the Harbaugh line in there, because he's quite succesful at Stanfod.
October 10th, 2010 at 3:31 PM ^
You want to go season by season, and match expectations? (On that measurement, Rich is headed for 0-3...but we don't want to take other factors into account, do we?). .779 in 13 Big Ten seasons, where the only 3 who ever won at a more impressive pace who coached over 10 years were Bo, Yost, and Woody. I think he met expectations just fine. And player support, better recruiting, all that....the easiest way to get it is to just win. And I wouldn't trade Denard for Harbaugh, but I would trade him for a good team the next 3 years. Hopefully we can have both.
October 10th, 2010 at 3:47 PM ^
hard to win when the previous regimes players are quitting on the program when their starting positions are no longer guaranteed. or how about the former regimes players and coaches are trashing their former program to the media and recruits. yeah, they are bunch of saints.
October 10th, 2010 at 3:57 PM ^
They won.
I'm still not sure how a guy who just came from Purdue a few years ago thinks he has such insight into how the program ran for years before he got here.
October 10th, 2010 at 4:22 PM ^
FYI, I am a Michigan raised by family who are Michigan fans. I only went to Purdue because they offered me a full ride in chemical engineering. I wore Michigan jerseys at almost every purdue game I attended during my undergrad. I have been going to Michigan games every year since I my parents started taking me as a toddler when back in the mid 80's.
Thanks for assuming things about me ASSHOLE.Fuck off.
October 10th, 2010 at 4:44 PM ^
Why so angry?
October 11th, 2010 at 10:41 AM ^
Gives you any insight into how the Michigan Football program has worked behind the scenes, like you've claimed many times. I'm not questioning your fandom. Just how someone who's only even been on campus for a few years suddenly has more knowledge of how the program was being run years before you got here than people who have been around, know people in the program, and have followed it firsthand.
I'm not assuming anything about you. You've made everything about yourself really clear. It's you who have a tendency to assume a whole lot about what was happening in a program you know nothing about. Which, again, illustrates how you are a huge hypocrite, even though "fuck off" is really becoming for a scholar and a lifetime Michigan person. More suitable for someone of a lesser education, some white trash wannabe, than someone with a high IQ, a published engineer. I hope your write you papers with more panache they you communicate normally.
October 11th, 2010 at 3:17 PM ^
lets count the things you assumed and were complete wrong about me:
1. I have only been following Michigan football since I was in grad school. COmpletely false since I have been a die hard michigan fan since the freaking 80's. I also know people in the program. Football is the second closest program I follow. The sport I know the most about is hockey. I am on the board for the Dekers and know a lot of the current hockey team personally.
2. I am a hypocrite! Bullshit. I gave Lloyd his fair shake. I also give Rod his fair shake.
Finally this is a freaking michigan fan board. not a formal setting for academic debate. Get over yourself. You talk like you are better than me. I would love for to say that to my face. Like I said in another post, meet me at Ashley's today at 5:30 pm. Do you want to know why I am so pissed. Some douchenoggle is calling me a hypocrite, which is by far the quality I am least known for in real life. It is hypocrites that piss me off the most. I guess you are called a hypocrite on this board if you don't goose step with the thought police.
Honestly, by having 20k points on a message board is really sad and points to you having no life.
October 12th, 2010 at 9:21 AM ^
You don't follow the program. But you make claims of having some inside knowledge into the program that I know you don't have, because the claims you make are false. I'm saying you're family or you didn't have any secret inside ties when you were following it, very intently I'm sure, when you were a kid, in another State. I believe in your fandom. I just don't believe you're qualified to say what Lloyd was or wasn't doing when you weren't even here.
The hypocrite part is when you take the same things, and have double standards for one or the other. In fact, you pretty much do it in THIS post:
Finally this is a freaking michigan fan board. not a formal setting for academic debate. Get over yourself. You talk like you are better than me.You have numerous times bragged about your education, your publications, and asked to duel someone with comparative GPAs and IQs. You make it want to seem to be an academic debate, and it's very obvious you're not over yourself, and CONSTANTLY talk like you are better than someone else. To call someone else out on that, and then get sensitive about it when done to you is the definition of hypocrite. So, you must completely conduct yourself differently on these boards than you do in real life, if that's not what you're thought for. I wish that guy was on these boards more. And you seem really defensive over all this stuff. I will admit, I DON'T know what you're compensating for. But it's obviously something. Thought police? You do realize your views on Rich are the majority opinion on this board, and that defending Lloyd is more likely to get you negged than pos'd? If you're getting bad reaction from your majority opinion, it's not the thought police, but probably something to do with the way you give your opinion...not what the opinion is. And really, which is sadder...accumulating 20k, or losing that many? Because I'm guessing you'd be right up there, but for the fact you keep getting negged and docked points for just acting like one of these many names you like to throw around at other people. Project much?
October 12th, 2010 at 9:26 AM ^
While I'm not sure I have the time with my no life to come meet someone I don't particular like around town, I'm not really sure if you looking for a truly mature discussion, or a fight ("I would love for you to say that to my face....I am so pissed").
Not that I'm particularly worried about an admitted engineer dork, but I kinda outgrew that kinda thing when I was....12. (And I wasn't on, so I didn't see your "offer" till this morning, since the site was down late last night. Too busy with that non-life).
But thanks. I'm sure we can draw pistols at high noon someday.
October 10th, 2010 at 7:11 PM ^
Winning has a funny way of curing everything doesn't it? And I'm not trying to bash lloyd, its just the "lloyd was better" signature pisses me off, that's all. That thinking makes believe there is a segment of the fan base who will never be happy with RR despite the results. Don't we all just want a winning program whose players make us proud after they are done with college careers? And yes lloyd did this exceedingly well, I just think it is disengenuous to be over critical of what RR is, while refusing to see any sort of shortcomings from previous tenures. Its pretty simple right? If RR continues to recruit well, build a strong foundation, show progress, win important games he should continue as the coach, right? If we regress at all he is probably gone.
October 10th, 2010 at 2:50 PM ^
I was alive in 2006. I was happy as a pig in shit that we were undefeated going into OSU. But we were dominated by USC and lost to an OSU team that got dominated by Florida. We also eeked out a victory against Ball State. And then we followed it up with consecutive losses to App St. and Oregon. And we didn't do shit in recruiting.
October 10th, 2010 at 3:37 PM ^
The point is that this huge downward spiral you're talking about lasted all of one year. From a play away from playing for the National Championship, to the spiral. A Spiral with us beating Florida at the end of it, and having 9 wins. If nearly playing for a National Championship is a spiral downwards, this program is going to be going downhill for the rest of time in your mind.
October 10th, 2010 at 4:24 PM ^
Didn't you read decimated defense? Going by your posts, there is a lot of revisionist history going on regarding the state of player development before Rich was hired.
October 11th, 2010 at 10:49 AM ^
But it's not the be all, end all that it's become for people who can't think of any argument themselves, or can't really even understand the argument. DD said due to attrition of various sorts (from Lloyd to Rich) that the talent level wasn't up to the Ohio State's, and Penn State's and such. The problem with the way it's brought up so much is that most people with a problem aren't saying "why aren't we beating Ohio State every year", but why aren't we even hanging with MSU or Illinois (or beating Purdue), teams that either AREN'T far ahead of Michigan on the DD scale, or weren't even really considered because they were so beneath us.
And in any regard, in the hear and now, we're in year 3. Dantonio wasn't left with a lot, (I think I'd rather have had Lloyd's players than John L.'s), yet he just finished his 3rd straight victory vs. Rich. He managed to take a bad situation, and rebuild their program. The problem lies in that DD explains why the Defense was bad last year. But with each year, it means less. Because we should have supplanted those missing pieces, if they were so obvious. We shouldn't be playing a lot of inexperienced freshmen on Defense, we should be playing a lot of kinda experienced sophomores. There's certainly a case that there weren't enough upperclassmen on defense to field a great squad. The fact that it wasn't seen by the coaches nearly 3 years ago, and their first full recruiting class wasn't filled with viable defensive players, that could have played last year, and at least had some game experience this year show some bad vision, considering some internet dudes could see it so clearly.
October 10th, 2010 at 1:54 AM ^
the 2006 defense was absolutely awesome. There were few times I watched that I was ever worried the other team might break our 45 yd line nevertheless score.
We were one cheapshot penalty and a 4th and 1 stop away from a National Championship game against a team we beat the following year.
October 10th, 2010 at 5:42 AM ^
We beat them in a down year (for them) with a relatively young defense. Had we played fla for the title, we would have suffered a beatdown at least as bad as the one put on osu. Remember the buckeyes had a very good mobile qb and couldn't stay away from the gators defensive front.
It would have been nice to compete in that game but I doubt it would have been competitive.
October 10th, 2010 at 1:26 PM ^
That OSU game did feature a ted ginn return for a TD on the first play, followed by a broken foot from celebrating... and I dont think OSU had another player that could run faster than 4.6 at WR, so that kind of allowed Fla to pin their ears back and get after it.
October 10th, 2010 at 3:40 PM ^
It wasn't like they didn't have any talent. And I don't know that we would have done worse than OSU. Sure, it was hardly a guaranteed win, but look at our record vs. SEC teams against OSU's. OSU doesn't win them. We win almost all of them. That doesn't guarantee victory for us by any means, but I certainly think it does means there's something about the make-up of the programs, players, and coaching that means we'd have a better showing against Florida than OSU did. No one thought Florida was that down the next year when they had us the biggest dog of the bowl season, so that's a bit of revisionist history there.
October 10th, 2010 at 12:06 AM ^
I bet he would against Danny Hope... can't say whether he'd do it against MSU or not though. So I guess I concede the point.