OT: A different look at Jordan vs James for NBA Finals week
Very OT but it is NBA Finals week (should be a GREAT series) and I have been working on this new way to compare Jordan and James for a while, so I thought this would be a good time to get some input on it. I approached it a different way than game stats vs game stats and took a team approach. Open to all criticism on it, let me have it :P
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BymFZreT4B3OOGw0S09ydUNaSVE/view
was perhaps the greatest perimeter defender in the history of the NBA...at a time when they still played defense of course. He could shut down everyone from the point guard to small forward, and the Bulls always put him on the other team's best wing scorer, saving Jordan's energy for offense. Jordan was of course no slouch on the defensive end, but if you go back and watch those old Bulls teams of the 90's, so much of their defense was built around Pippen's length and versatility. I'd imagine playing D on Jordan everyday in practice built him up for the task.
Once the Bulls figured out the Bad Boys - in that ruthless sweep - they really never had trouble with any team again (when Jordan wasn't retired).
This is a myth. Zone defense was illegal in the NBA. And hand-checking, while now illegal, still happens with regularity. Hard, rough fouls do not equal good defense (which is unfortunately a notion still alive and well).
Today's NBA defenses are much better because of their variety and complexity. Hence, isolation ball doesn't work nearly as well as it did back in the 80s and 90s.
Please watch this video if you're interested in seeing how the game has evolved for the better.
A team of 12 Jordans would never see the court, they'd be too busy betting who would win.
12 Magics might well beat 12 Jordans, too. He's sure as hell the only point guard to ever win a title playing center and if you needed somebody to play all five spots he'd be a great choice.
It's an odd way of framing the question, more like asking "who was the most versatile great player?" Is there any other sport where anyone would even conceive of looking at it this way? When we're talking greatests we usually talk about how effective a player was in the role he actually filled; it makes absolutely zero difference how good a catcher Babe Ruth was or how good Pele would have been in goal or how good Tom Brady is as an edge rusher. No doubt versatility's of more use in basketball but I don't see why it should be decisive.
I remember some hypotheticals here about having 22 Jabrills on our team.
I hope you're being facetious.
I consider Jordan the better player, but generally a team of small forwards will beat a team of another position.
Five Giannises would beat five Hardens, even though Harden is the better player.
Five Kawhis would beat five Westbrooks, even though Westbrook is the likely MVP.
Five Durants would beat five Currys, from either of Steph's MVP seasons, even taking Durant in his current form.
Wait a minute...Which team is Ditka coaching?
but to see it happen, that would be Effin awesome!
As a Pistons fan remembering Lebron's first stint with Cleveland, I must disagree. Lebron has never been afraid of the big stage -- hell, he's been under pressure since about age 14 with otherwise normal adults travelling hundreds of miles across state lines to watch his high school basketball games -- just think about what that would be like...
Also, if you're looking for a refresher
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vkY_bd8wG0
This may be the worst argument I've heard for who's the better player.
There is also something else people confuse...who is the better basketball player and who's had the better career are two different arguments.
Brilliant. /s
If Lebron played a "classic" guard position, it would be much easier to compare the two players. As it stands though, they don't necessarily play the same position, per se.
While I think Jordan is probably the better pure scorer between the two, I think Lebron is a better overall player. His rebounding, assists, and defensive intimidation in the paint are game changers. Jordan was a great perimeter defender - an often overlooked detail about his legacy - but Lebron can defend the entire court in a way Jordan simply didn't have the size and build to do.
For the vast majority of a game, I would take Lebron over Jordan all day and any day. However, when it comes to crunch time and the final few minutes, I would sub Jordan in, give him the ball, and clear the way. Jordan's ability to "close" far exceeds Lebron's. Hell, even on the current Cavs team, I am not sure I would want Lebron taking the last shot. I'd probably hand it over to Irving.
Either way, it's a fun debate and one I'm sure we'll be having for years to come! As a Warriors fan though, I hope to hell we can take the Cavs and atone for last year. It took me some time to recover from that!
Jordan was a great defensive player as well as an offensive player. I haven't been paying as much attention to Lebron's game but is he a good defender? Another point is that Micheal had that 'Alpha' game that players like Bird and Johnson had. Lebron has all the physical attributes but I don't know if he has the 'Alpha' dog characteristic that Jordan has. Personally, I haven't seen enough of Lebron to say one way or the other but I do know that Micheal was 'The Greatest' in his time, by far, and to unseat a pinnacle such as that, well you better be pretty special.
I don't think anyone can question the "alpha" aspect of LeBron's game/personality after last year's Finals.
This debate was being had ad nauseaum on some station the other day -
I could be way off on this, but one thing that I can't shake in this debate is the whole "they played at different times" thing, which to me adds a lot of noise to the comparison. For example, the image of a LeBron James getting absolutely pummeled on his way to the rim in a 1987 game, or Michael Jordan having helped defeat a team of alien invaders....these are the things that trouble me.
Triple troubling indeed
Almost ET like...
and being a better passer, rebounder, defender, teammate, bigger, faster, quicker, stronger, and has kids that dont suck ass at hoops.
if Lebron was quicker, but I was on a roll and I was hoping no one would catch that one. I do believe he was a better defender.
I'd give you that Lebron might be a more versitle defender, since he could probably guard the 1-4 positions (possibly the 5, depending on who it is), whereas Jordan likely wouldn't take on anyone who was a 4 or 5.
However, Jordan was far more skilled at steals (led the league three times), and was just a proficient at blocking shots as Lebron despite being 2" shorter.
I mean, how does being owner of a team compare to literally playing for them in terms of influencing the team's performance ON THE COURT? Ntm, Cleveland hadn't had Kevin Love, Richard Jefferson, JR Smith, Iman Shumphert, or Kyle Korver before LeBron came, so it's not like he put a trash team in the finals 3 times in a row. And, how is LeBron more influencial to Cleveland than Jordan is to Chicago? Who was a famous Bulls player prior to Jordan? Nobody. How many championships did the Bulls have prior to Jordan and the '91 team? None. Whose statue was put outside the United Center BEFORE the team even had their best season with him? Michael Air Jordan.
When did Michael play for Charlotte? That last part makes 0 sense, unless you're being sarcastic.
Who's better now?