Question for those who wouldn't let their kids play football
In only two weeks, we will see a whirlwind of satellite football camps. If I'm counting correctly, there are now 35 or more separate camps Michigan is involved in. Harbaugh has been very upfront about his purpose. He wants to help spread a love for the game of football. He believes that football is a great arena in which to teach many things, from teamwork to hard work to physical exercise to a host of other things. I happen to agree. In fact, I agree to the point that my son is gearing up for summer football, in preparation for the Fall season. While I seriously doubt my son will play in college, he is more than good enough to play in high school, and really enjoys the game.
However, many of you, while fans of Michigan football, would be strongly against letting your own children play football. This question is for you.
How can you justify being a fan of football if you are completely against your child participating in it? This just doesn't make sense to me. I don't mind those who hate football, and I understand that there are many people who for whatever reason, aren't capable of playing ball. But if you are a Michigan football fan, but won't let your kid play ball, help me understand how you reconcile that.
(Note: this question isn't about whether or not football is dangerous, or whether or not there is a threat of CTE or concussion in playing ball. It is solely about being a fan and at the same time being against familial participation in tackle football.)
My son is 11, so it's a no for right now. I spend $700 a month for his school. I'm investing too much in his brain right now to let him mush it up. If he wants to play in HS he can, that will be his choice. Right now he is really in to computers so I would rather encourage that as he'll have a better future in that. He has grown up with options I didn't have.
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Come on this is like some I'm14andthisisdeep level of reasoning. Football is incredibly fun to watch. The people playing it on TV have made a choice to participate. Many of the risks are fully known, and those that are not are easily speculated, and those people still playing are fully aware of all these things. They've had the opportunity to weigh the risks and benefits, and chosen to play. As a parent, I can do the same thing. I can still easily reconcile that many people do not have the same feelings on the matter that I do. I struggle just as hard as you supposedly do to see why this hard to justify.
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I played football from 1st grade up until I was a senior in high school. I suffered 5 concussions and was forced to stop playing halfway through my senior year. I have noticed some effects from those but I honestly would not change a thing. Football has been in my life since I was 6, whether it was playing or coaching. If I have a son some day, I would give him the choice to play football and would support whatever he decided to do. Obviously I would educate him on the risks of playing and what could potentially happen. Also, I would not let him play tackle football as early as I did, but in no way would I tell me child they couldnt play football.
I believe in kids making their own (reasonable) decisions and them living with the consequences of those decisions. We will be very upfront about the risks they take with playing the game, and the kinds on injuries/hardships it can pose on them later in life, but the ultimate decision will be their's to make.
Football has its cons, but playing can provide so many great things as well. Learning teamwork, leadership, hard work, and the idea of working towards something that is greater than yourself. That's not to say other sports don't provide that as well, but kids should be allowed to make their own choices.
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My kids are grown and none of them ever had the slightest interest in playing football, so I can't honestly say what I would have done if they had.
But you answered your own question when you said "this is not about whether or not football is dangerous" ... Bullshit -- this is exactly what your "question" is about -- the politics of the sport. What you are saying, and I agree, is that the only way football can survive is if parents (and fans) get involved and force the game to become safer. But you are saying it in the most tribal way possible. You think someone who is a fan but wouldn't let their kids play is a hypocrite. Why don't you just say that?
Then the answer can be as follows: I'll let my kid play when the sport shows that it gives a damn about safety, and not just lip service. I love the game, and I support the current players, but I want it to become safer. You want my kid to play? You want me to be a fan? Make the game safer. Make the people who coach my kids' team go through a not-a-joke training program and then maintain their certification as the sport evolves. Take this shit seriously. It starts at the top -- the NFL -- the culture has to change. I believe it is changing, but the pressure must be maintained. The only power parents (and fans) have is to set conditions on their participation.
Empirical data suggests otherwise but like I said, risk vs. reward. I played football and it was one of the best experiences of my life. It did, however, leave me with a spinal fusion and a later laminectomy. So it really has nothing to do with living in a bubble but rather whether you run full speed into other human beings repeatedly in sometimes awkward positions while fatigued. I love football, but let's not act like there is no heightened risk. Let's take it for what it is, a gladiator sport, and move on accordingly.
Recently at our high school track meet, a student who is one of the fastest in the state and valdictorian of the senior class collapsed after running her event. Some volunteers who were doctors were there to give her chest compressions, her father gave her mouth to mouth until the AED was used and EMS arrived. She was put into a medically induced coma at the hospital. Fortunately, all worked out well in the end, a heart defect was discovered and repaired and she is back at school.
Had this happened at a football game, the football-is-too-dangerous crowd would be in full force. Continuing education, more rigorous screening of coaches and training coaches (our pee-wee coaches are parents with no training and run what they learned when they played football decades ago), and equipment advances will mitigate some danger but any sport has risks. My son palyed two years of youth football as a 70 pound safety with no injuries, but did get a concussion in Technology class. Go figure.
seem counter-intuitive to me. For me, it wasn't until 9th grade that player weight limits were lifted.
Ponies 9 & 10 yr olds (60-85lbs)
JVs 10-12 yr olds (75-105lbs)
Varsity 12 & 13 yr olds (90-125lbs)
This might be obvious, but the hits became much more forceful the older I got.
I played HS football as a linebacker. I wasn't really very good at it and I enjoyed watching football more than playing it, so I left the team. I was good at other sports and I played those. Fast forward 20 years and my son was quite large for his age and was destined for the trenches. I went to some practices and watched him play/practice on the offensive line. It was obvious to this "fans" eyes that my son was a half-step behind everyone else in speed. That half-step equals injury. His big size didn't match his frame proportionately and it was real work for him to move quickly. My son didn't want to leave the team but I pulled him all the same. I knew that he would eventually get over being pissed at his Dad doing this to him, but he would never get over a permanent injury. We're still fans but we don't play unless it's just for fun.
It's not that complicated. The game is tremendously entertaining -- I'm sure that all of us became fans long before we knew of the long term health problems caused by playing.
Now that we know of those health consequences, if any of us individually were to stop watching, it would not change a thing -- the game would still be played, so we might as well enjoy it. (I acknowledge there is a major free rider phenomena occurring here.) But we can control whether our own children suffer from these health problems, so we do.
Also, you seem to present the issue as football or nothing. There are other sports that we watch and enjoy in addition to football. If our children aren't playing football, odds are that they're playing soccer instead, or something else. If, among the many sports I enjoy, I encourage my kids to do something other than football, that doesn't mean that I am only allowed to follow the one sport that they play going forward.
All of my kids have played football within the last 7 years. The list of injuries in this time frame reads like a typical kids ER lineup. 2 broken arms, a separated shoulder, severe leg bruise, all kinds of bumps and contusions, every manner of bruise, scrape etc. None of which came from football. All of which came playing on playground equipment, bike riding, tree climbing and general kid tomfoolery.
I am not saying those injuries don't happen, clearly they do. But as a coach of a minor league squad I am constantly looking for ways to keep the kids safer. Parents also need to understand that these kids aren't 6'2" 250lbs and run 4.4 40s. In minor league football, atleast in my area, its more like organized hugging. I am not saying those hits don't happen. There are those rare kids who possess the skill and football mind and understand the game and they generally shine.
Year after year my thanks comes from not winning championships (although that is nice) but from parents coming up to me after the season and thanking my coaches and myself for helping little Johnny come out of his shell. Thanking me for helping get their kid off the couch and not just be physically active but in the best shape they've been in. Thanking me for their marks improving in school and their general discipline and respect levels being higher. Most importantly thanking me for boosting their self confidence.
Now I am not saying you can't get that in any other sport, But I have coached different sports and I have found, again personally, nothing does the job of football.
While we are also mandating no tackling rules lets also take out the scores as well. Because just like in real life everyone is a winner.
BTW we've had 2 broken wrists, 1 broken leg, 1 concussion w/ vomit(that is when I say take season off no questions) and 2 more ER diagnosed "likely conc." . Along with a plethora of bruises, cuts etc.
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As I stated yesterday, I might even change my mind if I were close to the age of the majority of posters on this site. I see, by the post above by Honcho why so very many parents or "would be" parents are opposed to their children playing football.
Honcho writes "seeing a 175 pound ten year old," would give me cause for pause. Not as a coach, but as a parent who doesn't realize their role of disinterest in allowing a child to be this outsized, given his age, is scarier even than the thought of football.
I stated yesterday, a large part of was a continuation of what we had learned, always done, etc., so my role was making sure they would not only learn the game correctly but how to implement every saftey measure possible to minimize risk, and as I reported all through high school, the worst that ever happened to one of "my boys" was that damn knee injury of some kind.
But you have to start making the partents feeling comfortable. We allowed for a maximum weight level in every division. Unlike many leagues, we did not weigh once before the season started. We weighted in every Saturday prior to the contests, both coaches, representatives from both teams and if a child was even one pound overweight, the opposing coach had a right to say no. What you had, again at every level, was a group of boys representing two school grades with a disparity in weight of no more than 20- 25 lbs. I've seen examples of what Honch is talking about but that was at the middle school level. I had a 300 lber in 8th grade. I told him he had a chance to earn his way onto the team. He could run roughly 220 yards without taking a break. I told him his first step was to run the 440 - one trip around the oval. Then we'd talk. However he, of course, had to take part in cals, stretching, etc. He wa treated as a teammate, just without the honor of playing football yet. He could come on Saturdays, just like the rest of his teammates and he could play his role of collecting footballs, tees, things of that nature and by time the game was done, I wanted a lap, be in 100 yards, then 50 later but 440 yds prior to the game being over.
And I not only taught the physical safety aspects I spoke of, much like Honcho is. I also found out if there were medical concerns such a asthmas, diabestes, etc. Our practice field was comprised of very little grass and a whole lot of dirt. Being the father of an asthmatic, I knew inhaling dirt was not unlike taking sandpaper and rubbing it over an open wound. When we ran drills like the bear crawl were they were on all fours crawling in the dirt, I would remove my son and two other boys who suffered as well and had them run instead. With a little imagination, you can make it fair, as comfortable as possible - it is football - and safe as possible.
As I said, start by playing against kids your own size. League rule allowed for those overweight to play at a level higher if their weight fit into their limits. Some did this for a year, some for their entire rocket football experience.
There were times, many in fact, and it wasn't easy, but damn if the parents didn't appreciate it. I woud tell them, and this was based on a full season that due to their son being so underweight compared to the boys he would be playing with, I felt it in his best interests to stay at the same level. Some kids are hindered by being undersized where some are ready. The league was not opposed to this because it never involved an instance of the next age group being loaded say at RB and keeping him back would allow the younger group to have a superior running back.
League meetings were weekly and all matters of concern were brought to the table.One coach was upset because their team won the coin toss and they elected to kick off. That was according to my captains. I checked with the official and he said, "Yes, that is what happened." So to start the second half, when they would normally ask me which end, I woud say, receive. I add this to let you know there was little we did not discuss, rules, interpretation, and we weren't afraid to share the correct - safest way to perform all things rootball related. But Hell yes, start on a level playing field. Last night I also wrote about as an undersized 9th grader the fear I felt walking to my first practice, aware all hgh school grades practiced together and I had more than a few moments of hesitation. We had no rocket football so my first organized ball involved players from roughly 130 lbs to over 300.
Remove that fear and that advantage and it would go a long way toward parents even thinking about it. Thank you Honch. I was nether an advocate or opponent of the subject matter last night because I no longer have a child that would cause that concern. But Damn, I cannot believe I didn't add this.
Funny thing is it's not the real heavies that I worry about. Any 160+ 10 yr old is a potato and easily avoided. The size/weight of the equipment and the general lack of real quick twitch muscle is a pretty effective equalizer IMO.
All that said. A parent knows their child. Some children should not ever try football. Soccer is a much better place to find out if Timmy has the will/determination and general toughness that says he will go get the ball.
I think of youth football a little like a military. Out of 100 5th grade boys maybe 25-30 should try it. As a parent you have to take an honest look at your own child and decide.
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Would never force my kid to play, but I expect based on my fanhood he will want too.
Probably won't let him play until he is in middle school. Will do some non-contact camps in the mean time. I'm fine with middle school and high school ball. Chances are I won't have to worry about this but if he had the opportunity to play in college I might counsel him to reconsider.
I am a consumer of Michigan football. It is pure entertainment. I watched games at the Big House as a student. I celebrated when we won and commisserated when we lost. I enjoy watching my team be better than its rivals. I enjoy the confused/apoplectic looks on SEC team supporters' faces when talking about various topics. However...
I do not love football for the sake of football. I am not Harbaugh. It wouldn't be the end of my world if football disappeared as I would go to my number two, hockey, or number three, soccer. I don't seek out high school football, other college games, or professional games.
There are risks associated with every sport (see hockey and soccer). Some risks are only tangential to the game itself and are therefore more avoidable/preventable. In football, taking such risks is often encouraged, a part of the game, and celebrated. I also don't particularly enjoy boxing, MMA, or rugby. The best anyone can say about the football powers that be is that they are trying to be as smart as possible about doing something that can reasonably considered to be rather stupid. For my family, I am steering them towards options that, while they do carry a tangential risk of injury, the act of playing the game itself-not to mention playing it well-necessarily requires engaging in specific behavior that can, and often does, directly lead to injury.
You make some really good points. I do love the sport, but now having an 8 year old at home, I have found that football is not a neccessity. I won't miss a Michigan game, that is a must, but since having a kid, my love for the overall game, especially from a spectator standpoint has diminished. I don't watch NFL at all, and really don't have much of a desire for high school. I do love the strategy involved, the commradere the sport brings between teammates, and the overall fun of the game, but the safety concerns are certainly valid, but at the end of the day, if my son wants to play I think I would let him. He does love flag football, and at his age flag football is perfect for him.
Haha. We both came up with the porn analogy at the same time. Not quite Eskmio brothers, but great minds...
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Let's take a non-political arguement. Porn!
Would I do it? No, do I want my kids to? No. Do I think it should be banned? No. Would I pay for it (no comment).
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I have let my kids play football, so technically this question isn't addressed toward me, but you can be a fan of something that is dangerous while protecting your family from that same danger. Anything short of outfitting them in bubblewrap when they head out the door would leave them open to harm anyway. If a parent doesn't want their child in a certain sport in order to safeguard them, that is their choice. But I don't see why it would be hypocracy. Is it hypocritical that I don't want my sons doing a lot of the things I did growing up? I don't think so. If I grew up playing football (which I did), then it stands to reason I would be a fan of the game as an adult. It could also mean that I wouldn't want my sons to go that route.
I have seen as many concussions and knee injuries in soccer than I have with football. There is an inherent risk to participating in nearly any sport.
If parents and coaches instruct/encourage correct tackling and playing techniques, the inherent risk is diminished greatly.
Play on. And Go Blue.
Couple of points....
1. Yes, it is somewhat hypocritical, and I have no problem admitting it.
2. Football is a game that I have loved watching for decades. Now new research has shown the adverse health effects. We are in a transition period, where people are still new to the idea of CTE and the long term effects of concussions.
3. As a player I always knew there was a decent risk for broken bones, ligament damage, etc. and I was ok with that as a player (and fan). But as a parent, you think differently about it. You protect your kids more than you would protect yourself. I watch kids do things that I would not let my kids do. To each his own.
4. I watched Evel Knievel jump motorcyles as a kid. I watched cliff divers jumping in Acapulco. I liked it and enjoyed, but that doesn't mean I would want to do it myself, or witness my children do it!
Is that what the question is about? Then let me make it simple. Yes, when I watch Michigan football, I am being a hypocrite. Simple, right? Of course that does not take into account my own personal history with the sport. I grew up a son of a college football player that did not inherit the genetics necessary to be one myself. That being said, I was indoctrinated into the culture of football and I loved it. It was one of my strongest bonds with my father; a common thread for conversation when all else failed. My memories of watching Touchdown "Tim" Biakabatuka destroy the buckeyes with my dad brings me tears of sadness and joy since his passing. My familial bonds forged through Michigan football go deeper than I can express.
And I cheer for Michigan football players today. I cheer for the kids, I follow their successes, and feel sadness at their failures. Not for me, but for them. Because I know while it's just a game, it is a brutal one. And because of that, you must love it on some level to be successful.
So I love Michigan football. And I think that in light of recent concussion revelations we should not encourage any "contact" sport until advances can be made in prevention and protection. Yes, I include soccer in this broad statement. My hope is that football is made safer in response to my legitimate concerns.
I do not begrudge some one's love of a sport and their desire to compete in it. Just please do not judge me for my hypocrisy of not directly encouraging participation. It is likely more complicated than you realize.
My son is 8 and he is loving flag football. I think it is perfect for his age. He is learning the game without taking any hits, and is having a blast. If he wants to play when he gets a little older, then I wouldn't have any issue with it. I will hold off starting tackle football until 6th or 7th grade. I don' t necessarily want him to play, but if he loves the game and learns the right techniques, then I don't have an issue with it.
I played flag football as an elective to fill one of my P..E. requirements. I thought it would be made up of former high school jocks like myself who wanted to get together and just fo at it for four hrs per week, understanding all blocking would be above the waist, as it should be and it would be the most well designed plays that would determine victory.
Our instructor broke us up the first day, just to try to determine who was at what level.We had young women, young men, most just out of high school and I think I was probably the oldest at about 22, a Vietnam Vet, a three year letter winner in high school, very small school but enough to separate me greatly from almost everyone else. In our first huddle, after no one spoke, I asked if they woulld mind if I called the plays. I informed them I was a former h.s. qb and they all thought that was cool. I thought, "Oh shit," they think that's cool. Just what kind of experience do these people have. I knew the girls had none.
Well I soon found out. Everything I called was a TD and on broken plays I just ran it in. Ron, our instructor came along and asked the score and said, "Oh Oh, what's the reason? They just pointed at me.
Anyway, I noticed a lot of improvement on the part of everyone as we rolled through the semeseter and Ron told me I didn't have to put myself in a position to decide the game, meaning I could just play line and he'd give me an A. I thought that was pretty cool.
But, I think if everyone starts our the same age, at the same level, it is a good way to learn the game. I think we had 8 man teams, but I cannot remember if that was due to class size or rules. I know it would be good for learning the passing game and many of the basic rules would follow those that decided to switch over to tackle.
Thanks for sharing. You and the kids can decide later, if it should come to that, but in the meantime, I know he's having a blast.
Yeah, thanks man. For me at his age, it's all about learning, improving and most of all, having fun. My nephew who is the same age is a really really good soccer player. His coach wants him to play on his traveling team, but my brother and nephew just don't want to do it because of the time requirements and he frankly wants to play baseball. I told him, that the traveling stuff shouldn't even start until 6th -8th grade. These parents tend to want to live vicariously through their children and push them to the brink at such a young age. I never played AAu basketball, because I wanted to play other sports, and it didn't hurt me. I still played college basketball without all of that extra traveling, because I was a good player. I know I got off subject, but the main point is about the kids and their enjoyment of said sport. I know that if I was forced to do all of these AAU traveling leagues, I would have burnt myself out at an early age.
It's a good thing for people to wrestle with the questions. It's important for there to be people that see this as hypocrisy and be unconfortable with it because they don't want to give up watching football. I think that's a good place to find people that will maintain pressure to research sports injuries and change the game, equipment, and techniques to keep improving.
I've wrestled with it some. What I come around to is that the risks and consequences of football are becoming better known. Other parents have decided, with this knowledge (yes, I know this is a big assumption), that their kids can play. That is their choice, and I am okay with that. I enjoy watching Michigan football, and will continue to do so. It connects me to the university. For whatever it's worth, I don't really watch any other teams or the NFL.
Based on the known risks today, as well as the growing empirical evidence concerning long term damage even in the absence of conussions, I would not be okay with my son playing football.
As more research is done, I might skew more in one direction or the other. Or, maybe there are technological developments that greatly reduce or eliminate many of the risks of football. But, again, based on what we know today, I don't want my kid playing. If other parents conclude it's okay for their kids, that's fine by me. And I thank them for their sons playing for Michigan.
It is a hypocrisy, but we are humans who live at the junction of many different hypocritical beliefs and actions at once. This is why we have secular and non-secular saints... they point the way. (Although your fave is problematic, as the internet says).
Football (especially CFB) is most likely super abusive. Schools do not pay players and we don't know the extent by which playing (for no money) in college destroys their bodies. Think of the running backs who have exploded their legs in college thus ending a promising career in the pros. My theory is that the entire system will start to collapse in the next 30-50 years as first wealthier, whiter parents pulls their kids from football and then the lawsuits start forcing schools out of the game. Colleges hate lawsuits.
That being said - I love watching. I am a massive Michigan fan - I was raised to be a Wolverine. I will pay to go to one or two games this year (probably at Ruters... woo). I hope the school is doing as much as possible to protect players (side eye at you Hoke) and I hope they start getting paid soon.
Until then... I'll live in my hypocrisy and my future imaginary kid will never ever play.
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I think the CFB system is pretty racist, yes. Maybe not racist, but exploitative along a couple of different lines... race and class.
Generalizing about race is always a moronic argument. Or are you saying that a poorer African American family wouldn't pull their kid from football?
And considering all athletes aren't paid, in all sports, coming from all classes, please explain how it's exploitive?
And try using some argument other than the idiotic ones put forward by ESPN.
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I have no issue watching Nick Wallenda walk over the Grand Canyon on a wire.
I have no problem watching the Blue Angels.
I have no problem donating to and supporting my local police and fire departments.
I fully support our military personnel.
Point being, people make their own choices, and some choose to do risky or dangerous things. Just because I would not make that same choice doesn't morally preclude me from viewing or supporting.
Football is not ancient roman gladiators. Players are not forced to play against their will. That is a key distinction in my mind.
This is a tough one. Something that I have been thinking about a lot of the last couple years.
I grew up a big football fan. Am very competitive, and I am a very proud Michigan alumnus. So I am a huge fan of Michigan football.
Before the whole CTE thing came up, when it was just bodily injury that was possible it didn't seem like such a moral quandry. I know plenty of people dount the veracity of CTE issue. I don't want to bring up political stuff that will get me in trouble here, but I feel like doing that is akin to some political stances that pretend certain things don't exist.
I am very risk adverse in my personal life, especially when it comes to the safety of my kids. So any kind of unnecessary heightened risk, especially when it comes to brain trauma, is something I would avoid.
I feel like it is a cop-out to just say other people can do with their lives as they want, when I refuse to let my own kids play football, yet watch and actively support other people's children playing it.
I feel like a hypocrite.
Yet, while there are some high profile cases of football players sufferring long-term consequences. There are plenty of football players, perhaps the majority, that go on to lead normal lives after hanging up their cleats.
At the same time, supporting Michigan football, provides many kids with opportunities that might not have otherwise had. And can set them up for life, even without making the NFL, by getting a UM education and all the connections that come from being a UM football player.
I have pretty much given up on the NFL. But more that I just don't find it that entertaining,
Football is entertainment. To be honest, football probably doesn't even hit my top 3 favorite sports. But Michigan football is far and away my favorite event. I never wanted to play football, and I doubt my potential kid will either. But if they do, it will be their decision.
Basically it is ok for other people's children, just not ours!
But really, many jobs carry an inherent risk and I have no problem with anyone risking their lives...
jdon
If the choice is between being labeled a hypocrite while having a son with a healthy brain or maintaining a consistent moral philosophy while either exposing my son to possible brain damage or my giving up watching football, I'll choose the former every time.
By the way, my son plays baseball, basketball and badminton. Yep, he's only allowed to play sports that start with, "ba." It's an odd rule, but it's worked for us so far.