What's the difference between Michigan and other elite programs
Putting aside the smart assed answers of just "Dave Brandon or Hoke", Why does it seem Michigan falls flat on its face in doing a coaching search and change while other schools simply transition and move on. Look at USC and OSU as examples. Elite programs paying top dollar for their coach and went through a rapid unexpected change. OSU flounders 1 season under an assistant after Tressel gets the boot/quits, then instantly goes on a 24 game tear. USC get Kniffen (who doesn't cut it), cuts him, then goes on an impressive tear and is very much a relevant team right now.
It's not like when Lloyd left it was horribly unexpected or sudden. Rich Rod comes in and turns the program into a 3 win team. Granted he was starting to make some traction when he was ran out, but it still wasn't an OSU or USC turn around. We've fallen to further irrelevance since. Hoke shows up and does an amazing job in 2011. Instantly we start losing games. It's the opposite of the OSU experiment.
So here's the question. What is the difference between UM and these other programs that we can't seem to get things turned around? Maybe it does lay 100% on Brandon and Hoke, but maybe it's not. Just wanted to start a discussion on why those programs are still successful and we're floundering.
Second question: How it is that we've been a young team ever year? Seems like every year we hear how we have issues because of young talent. How does this happen? I don't hear excuses being given for MSU, OSU, FSU, Bama etc... that they have a young team, and even when they have a higher number of younger players, you still don't see a dramatic downturn in performance. I guess I'm just sick of that excuse and can't understand why we seem to live in perpetuity with young players.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:31 PM ^
It's an ideal, not a coaching tree. And for some strange reason our admin appears to have lost sight of this.
September 7th, 2014 at 9:48 PM ^
I agree it is an ideal, but it turned into nepotism at its worst. The only bold decision they ever made was to hire RR. It was such a dramatic change in direction, it was going to fail unless everyone was behind the hire (which they weren't). Once it went wrong the old guard was back in charge.
After 3 years of trying to totally reshape the program to a spread, Dave Brandon in his infinite wisdom did the same thing that Martin did and took the program back 180 degrees without the personnel to get the job done. On top of that he hired a mediocre MAC level head coach for a job that required a transformational leader.
If you want to know where the blame ultimately sits, it's with Brandon! Instead of hiring an Urban Meyer type of coach to build on the personnel we had, he decided it was best to try to revert back 100% to the way it was prior to RR. No one was happy with the situation back then with us continously getting beaten down by OSU. That is why Martin made such a drastic move in the first place.
It's really ridiculous when you think about the decision making by the ADs!
September 7th, 2014 at 4:41 PM ^
September 7th, 2014 at 5:45 PM ^
I will travel 14,000 km by foot to coach the wolverines of michigan usa.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:21 PM ^
September 7th, 2014 at 3:30 PM ^
It has been a disaster since Carr's last season.
September 7th, 2014 at 5:23 PM ^
It's been going on since long before that. Carr's last season inlcuded a beatdown worse than this one, at home.
September 7th, 2014 at 9:01 PM ^
Even longer than that. 34-9 to Iowa at home says hello.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:31 PM ^
i.e., we are not an elite program
at present
and recent past
September 7th, 2014 at 3:22 PM ^
September 7th, 2014 at 3:23 PM ^
Michigan is a storied program, but since '06/07 it has not been elite.
What differentiates a top notch program from everyone else is coaching. Look at schools like Boise State and recently, Michigan State, where coaching turns average but not great recruiting schools into top ten programs.
Michigan can be fixed once it gets the right man for the job. I believe with the talent level we have, the process could be done fairly quickly. But it is not going to happen with Hoke.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:29 PM ^
Are you your avatar?
September 7th, 2014 at 3:29 PM ^
That's my Wife
September 7th, 2014 at 6:44 PM ^
Pretty sure The Jerk Store fits in here somewhere... was a phonecall received?
September 8th, 2014 at 3:48 AM ^
I upvoted you for that
September 8th, 2014 at 2:53 PM ^
LOL BUTTERFACE
September 7th, 2014 at 3:24 PM ^
September 7th, 2014 at 3:26 PM ^
We should be elite though, our recruiting classes are speaking to Elite Status.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:29 PM ^
When are we ever going to learn that 'crootin and Rivals stars mean nothing if your coaching staff can't develop them once they're on campus? For how much time and emotional energy people put into following this stuff, it's amazing to me how this simple fact seems to elude them.
And for that matter, how many years are we going to have to sit here and listen to "we're a young team" while just about every other school on earth can get productivity out of underclassmen?
September 7th, 2014 at 3:25 PM ^
and also wins.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:40 PM ^
Its funny, for as much as the program bangs the drum about being the winningest program of all time, and the tradition of Big Ten titles, winning seems to be like last on their list of things they want in a coach.
You don't have the tradition at Michigan without the program winning a shit ton of games. That whole stupid Michigan Man nonsense clouds everyone's judgment.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:26 PM ^
We paid for a MAC-level coach who didn't even have a .500 coaching record. That's really your answer. Buy an average product and you're likely going to get average results.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
September 7th, 2014 at 3:47 PM ^
September 7th, 2014 at 5:52 PM ^
Of many who might be found, I can think of these MAC coaches off the top of my head who went from MAC to AQ schools:
Bo Schembechler - Miami of Ohio
Woody Hayes - Miami of Ohio
Urban Meyer - Bowling Green
Nick Saban - Toledo
Brian Kelly - Central Michigan
September 7th, 2014 at 8:58 PM ^
But look at their records when they left. They were in a whole different league.
September 7th, 2014 at 10:00 PM ^
Hoke was hired because the guy who thinks he is the smartest guy in the room felt that the HC job didn't matter as much as paying for his perceived top Coordinators. Well it looks like a real winning coach/leader at the top of your football team actually matters!
His vision was a HC that will mend the divisions that happened when Miles was passed over by Martin! As long as you throw enough money at the coordinators, he could have a guy that would glad hand all of the Alumni and all would be right with the world. What a farse!
September 7th, 2014 at 3:26 PM ^
Toughness.. physicality.. execution
September 7th, 2014 at 3:34 PM ^
OK Brady Hoke.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:27 PM ^
Our coaching search in 2008 was a complete clusterf---. Martin had absolutely no idea how to do it. It's horrifying reading - seriously, I found it physically painful. It was better when Dave Brandon did it the 2nd time around, but that happened after the first round, so, depending on how much potential candidates were/are aware of it all, I can't imagine the line of coaches willing to deal with the mess Rich Rod had to deal with would be too long.
One thing Brady and his staff are proving, though, is you can still bring in top talent, and the admin is willing to pay coaches. So, if Brady can't turn this thing around and we go on another hunt, we need to hope for a couple things:
1) Whoever the AD is runs a tight ship and knows how to conduct a proper coaching search
2) Brady leaves the program well-stocked and on a workable footing
3) The admin can convey to potential candidates that they will back them to the hilt and stay the f--- out of the way and let them build a program.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:37 PM ^
Yup, Miles was in the bag in 2007/2008. All they had to do was wait until after LSU's bowl game. The dude's on record as saying if they did that, he'd be their man. They didn't wait and there are speculations of meddling by Carr, who had something against Miles. There were information leaks, corrections, clarifications, it wasn't smooth.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:39 PM ^
I woke up this morning wishing that John U Bacon still had access to the program as he did under RichRod. If he did, then maybe at the very least we would be able to get some kind of post-mortem at some point as to what the hell is going on now. Based on last night's results I conclude that what's going on with Hoke is just as much the clusterf*** that occured when Rodriguez was in Ann Arbor.
September 7th, 2014 at 9:00 PM ^
That is another reason to let Hoke finish out his contract if a decision is made to make a change. No buyout. Use all of the money on the next guy and his staff.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:29 PM ^
September 7th, 2014 at 3:30 PM ^
they both had solid lines. Now figure out how to improve dline and oline and this team will go places. not sure who to blame this on. Is funk bad as a position coach? Or is cole just too young to be facing any sort of above average dline moves?
or maybe it's that both are dline and oline are so bad, they're just not seeing what they should in practice because there isn't enough talent and/or coaching to get them to learn what they should be learning.
or maybe the problem is at the top and the players just stopped caring anymore.
or maybe the qb sucks, though watching the pats play with a shakey line Brady isn't looking so superhuman either.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:31 PM ^
September 7th, 2014 at 3:33 PM ^
I'd say we're closer to Notre Dame pre Brian Kelly than we are Tennessee. Storied program that thinks very highly of itsself, recruits very well, yet keep fucking up coaching changes.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:35 PM ^
September 7th, 2014 at 3:46 PM ^
What about Texas?
They get the best recruits from the best recruiting state in the country and yet they keep on sucking. How do you explain losing 41-7 at home to BYU? They have won only 2 Conference titles since 1995.
September 7th, 2014 at 4:01 PM ^
Texas went on to make a great DC hire right after that game (technically he was promoted).
/edit: to be fair, he actually seemed to do a decent job there. I loathe that guy.
/edit#2: you're talking about last night. I wasn't even aware of that score. Wow, bad.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:31 PM ^
I was thinking about this earlier today. Compared to other top football programs, Michigan seems to be very much run like an amateur program instead of the top shelf program it feels like it is. From the gimmicky marketing things, to the bungled coaching searches, to just being tone deaf to college fans and atletics in general it all just reeks of amateurs.
I don't know how you fix it, but I think it starts with bringing in a new AD, and needs to continue with cleaning out a lot of long time staff -- gameday operations, PR people, etc. Bring in some adults and I think you'll see a change.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:34 PM ^
When Carr retired Michigan had not gone outside to hire a football coach in 40 years, that was the essence of the problem. They tried something relatively radical in RR and there was an institutional freak-out. Then they overcompensated with what they perceived as a true "Michigan man".
These other schools had more of a history of changing coaches, went out and got the best one they could, and moved on with everyone behind him.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:57 PM ^
Who else was out there? Patterson from TCU and Mullen from MSU were the two hottest names. Neither guy had any midwest ties, which is crucial to our recruting in Ohio. Biggest mistake we made was not hiring Les Miles the first time around.
September 7th, 2014 at 4:21 PM ^
I hear you, but if we had waved enough money around (at either the Carr retirement or the at RR firing) there would've been plenty of well qualified coaches who would've picked up and moved to Ann Arbor post haste.
September 7th, 2014 at 8:10 PM ^
September 7th, 2014 at 4:35 PM ^
I think if the right guy came in you could work around not having midwest ties as long as you recognized that necessity and engaged the right staff, alumni, former players etc. That didn't happen with RR, and probably all parties were at fault. Hoke has fixed that problem and now just has to deliver on the field. If he is replaced I would hope everyone would have learned their lessons from the RR experience and we can consider all available options.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:34 PM ^
depth.
You don't have an offense if you don't have an offensive line. They are the offense.
Check the weight gains on the kids on our line on a yearly basis. That's why. It's more than just learning the position (and it's the hardest one on any team).
Hoke being given a month to cobble together a recruiting class really really hurt. The previous recruiting class hurt even more.
September 7th, 2014 at 5:31 PM ^
This is certainly a factor, but even so, I never expected the o-line to be as bad as it was last season. Still hoping for some improvement. I didn't see Kalis out there yesterday, wondering if he re-injured his back. With - was it Bosch? stepping away from the program , it won't be till next season that you have a more mature, experienced OL.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:36 PM ^
The short answer is: Michigan, given the level of its recruiting and resources, should be competing at a higher level. We should be a consistently Top 15 team. The longer answer is that Michigan does present a few more challenges for a prospective coach who's used to unfettered authority of the sort seen at Bama, A&M, OSU, etc. Those schools really are bottom-dwellers in terms of academic and ethical standards, and they'll do anything to win. Michigan will do a lot to win, and will come close to the bottom -- don't get me wrong -- but they won't oversign or push illiterate players through bogus classes.They won't negative-recruit. And they keep boosters at bay (post Ed Martin). Also Michigan still prioritizes the school over the football team. Guys like Saban or Meyer would not be good fits here. Their "styles" would rub the school the wrong way, and vice versa. Saban and Meyer would give us better football teams, but they would not necessarily be ideal representatives of UM.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:40 PM ^
That may be true of Saban and Meyer, but you've also got coaches like Sumlin, Strong, and even Sarkisian out there who might be good fits. I agree our standards are higher but don't think that explains what's been happening.
September 7th, 2014 at 4:05 PM ^
I could maybe see Strong or Sarkisian, but not Sumlin. His teams have had very poor academic showings at schools notorious for same. Hiring him would just look too mercenary for UM. And, although Strong himself seems like a solid citizen, Louisville's broad definition of "student-athlete" is somewhat notorious. But, hey, we've hired coaches from West Virginia, so...
I think Michigan will naturally look for another Beilein -- a highly respected, if not entirely flashy, veteran coach who's toiling at program that's somewhat beneath him, and who will never embarrass Michigan. He needn't be a Michigan guy. But he does need to be someone who represents what the school stands for. Granted, Beileins are few and far between. But they're out there. It is possible to have it both ways. If Stanford can do it, so can Michigan.