Did Connor Stallions just go rogue?
This entire affair has me shaking my head for two big reasons. First in disbelief at how stupid and inept it was, and secondly from disappointment at how reckless and flat out inexcusable it all is. Stipulated that the rule is fairly silly and that the advantage gained is minimal. But that just points to how idiotic it was to do this in the first place. If it is all so dumb and unimportant, why was it important enough to risk getting caught and tarnish the program and the potential championship seasons when this has been happening? What's more, what kind of idiot blatantly schemes and suborns cheating like this and uses his own name and involves so many people that it is bound to come back on you? It's just stupidity on stilts, and not only shows the program to be willing to cheat for no good reason, but that it hires idiots to boot!
With that said, I don't want to give the impression that I think the problem is just that Michigan has gotten caught and looks dumb. The problem is that this was reckless and a blatant violation of the rules. All of the information gleaned by this moronic scheme can be gleaned without cheating. And by most accounts, the cheating offers very little advantage. So that raises the question, if Michigan is willing to take a risk to gain such a pointless edge as this, what are they willing to do for a real advantage? Now, if other questions pop up, it's much harder to just wave them away as baseless or the ravings of jealous opponents. What if rumors about Ben Herbert crop up and people start wondering if the results he gets from three star athletes is really on the up and up? Will you still just immediately give the program the benefit of the doubt? Can you reasonably expect people who aren't fans of Michigan to give credence to any denials?
Now, if it can be shown that this really was just one stupid staffer that went rogue, maybe a lot of the reputational harm can be mitigated, but not entirely. And honestly, this whole operation required some serious money that a low level staffer isn't just funding out of pocket. What's more, if the information he was gaining wasn't being used by the program, why would it go on for multiple years? The answer is that of course the information was being used, and of course Stallions wasn't doing this on his own with his own money. So, I find any argument that claims that people fairly high up the ladder weren't in the know to be naive or disingenuous. Andy Staples today reported that people had been posting on a Tennessee message board last season, well before any of these allegations came out, that family or friends had been given money by Michigan to do this type of scouting, and that they were to make sure that the information couldn't be connected to Harbaugh. We don't have some big rivalry with Tennessee. Why would a rando make that up? I would have dismissed it before all the other evidence came to light. Now I am willing to believe it could be true.
Bottom line, this is a bigger deal than most here are willing to believe. The fact that it probably has very little to do with the wins the program has had over the last few years doesn't lessen that fact, it actually makes the cheating worse because it was so unnecessary. And don't be surprised to discover that people higher on the totem pole than Connor Stallions get in trouble for this.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:01 AM ^
TL;DR
But any basis for your suppositions it goes further up the totem pole?
October 25th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
Further more, OP message board rumblings should be persona non grata in the interim without a concrete link to a source.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:08 AM ^
There is a post on Reddit gaining traction that the alleged whistle-blower is actually a former Michigan coach who was fired related to being caught illegally accessing opponents’s practice footage. Strongly hinting former OC Matt Weiss.
could be 10 fakes out 10, but given how this whole scandal has been going, I would not be shocked at anything at this point…
October 25th, 2023 at 11:20 AM ^
There is one particular statement that is giving me a lot of pause, and may indicate to me this angle is not far fetched.
On Joel Klatt's show this Monday, he praised Michigan's performance. But then he said that the brewing scandal could be very serious. Then he said that he did not want to say too much, but that it possibly went "beyond wins and losses." I thought to myself, "what is beyond wins and losses," then I thought "uh oh."
This is still on the fringes for me, but I am starting to wonder if the existing NCAA investigation, Harbaugh's self imposed suspension, Matt Weiss, and Connor Stalions are not all related already. Leaving no doubt, I am not saying this is true, but frankly it would make more sense than it currently does.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:47 AM ^
It doesn’t seem all that far-fetched given how much sense it makes.
October 25th, 2023 at 12:07 PM ^
The NCAA statement on August 13. "The Michigan infractions case is related to impermissible on and off campus recruiting during the Covid dead period and impermissible coaching activities, not a cheeseburger."
October 26th, 2023 at 9:09 AM ^
of course there's no basis. don't be silly.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:33 AM ^
Stalions exploited a loophole in a poorly drafted rule. He structured it so that the exact scheme he ran is technically not prohibited.
That said, I sure wish he had used cryptocurrency and burner phones.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^
Or ya know maybe using something other than his own fuking name.
October 25th, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^
I had just assumed that "Connor Stalions" was an alias used for espionage, porn, and other dubious activities.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:02 AM ^
Could we maybe just have a "Colin Stalions Drama Snowflakes, MM/DD" thread every day, where all of this goes?
I'd like to see other topics, too, when I open the page.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:10 AM ^
FWIW I just compiled a list of all the threads posted on this in the past 12 hours in the Conner Stallion thread directly below this Conner Stallion thread.
I'm having PTSD from the end of the Hoke era when seemingly everyone simply HAD to post a thread with their completely unique and original thoughts on the matter. Because if you just shared your completely unique and original thoughts on the matter in one of the other 100 threads already up on the board everyone might not see it.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:51 AM ^
So how many were there? 100? Where's the list? There has to be at least 20. That said I agree with you.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:25 AM ^
All things WYLD STALIONS in one thread? Yes please!
October 25th, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^
With requisite branding and promotion.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
i made this very suggestion on the mods thread. none of these separate threads need to exist.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:02 AM ^
Thank you. I will definitely take this under advisement.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:02 AM ^
Yes, I see your point.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:02 AM ^
Please repent for this awful post.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^
Only a guy named "Preacher Mike" could create a weepy, idiotic post like the one we see here.
I'm old enough to have encountered "Preacher Mike" in Ann Arbor. Textbook megalomaniac, at least in presentation.
October 25th, 2023 at 12:03 PM ^
You may disagree, that doesn't make it awful . It's actually well reasoned and not screechy. I think the rule is awful, stupid and should never have been. But-if we broke it punishment should follow
October 25th, 2023 at 10:04 AM ^
Mmmmmm. Very troll-y.
Three things-
1) I am not assuming that anything that I have heard thus far is necessarily true.
2) Even if it is all true, it is still not clear if any rules were broken.
3) By the time they figure it out Michigan will have embarrassed OSU, again, so whatever.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:46 AM ^
1. it's true
2. the letter of the rule may not have been broken but the spirit of the rule certainly was
3. don't count on it
October 25th, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
1. I do not assume anything is true until I see it, and allow it to be rebutted.
2. It does not matter if the spirit of the rule was broken if the letter was not.
3. It's happening.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^
It's crazy that in a matter of two years our fans are expecting to kick their ass, and their fans are crying about us cheating.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:04 AM ^
Preacher Mike: username checks out
Also quite boring
October 25th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^
guess he’s not into the whole brevity thing
October 25th, 2023 at 10:04 AM ^
Username checks out.
I tend to agree.
This "scheme" is so dumb that it's hard to believe Stalions even knew he was doing something wrong, but unfortunately, that raises the question of whether Michigan's compliance program is sufficient.
Based on some corporations I've worked at, I bet a big component is a video where some actor says "Following the NCAA rules is essential to our team values" together with a PDF of those rules and a quiz to make sure the employee can answer ten rules questions correctly.
If they didn't have a specific slide or presentation on in-person scouting, or if Stalions privately concluded that his vast network didn't constitute in person scouting, then was our program sufficient? I think I would probably say yes, but we'll see what the NCAA says.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:10 AM ^
Objection! Speculation.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:40 AM ^
Sustained! We'll need to wait for actual evidence, but it's hard not to take guesses until then.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:06 AM ^
I'm gonna use this everywhere now. I just roll my eyes at how people speculate, others agree then ramp it up. We're nearly at the point where Michigan deserves the death penalty and Jim Harbaugh needs to be imprisoned for the rest of his like.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:05 AM ^
This post is about to get the mGrowOld "Thank You For Your Unique Insight" seal of approval.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
They should just add a third button:
thumbs up, thumbs down, mgrowold complaint
October 25th, 2023 at 10:05 AM ^
I'm not reading all that. But I will post that I'm not going to read it.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:05 AM ^
So this story is a huge deal. And we should be discussing it every day because this is the biggest story in cfb right now.
is it overwhelmingly likely that this was a known and funded operation. Yes per Occam’s razor.
Was Stallions his vast network incredibly brazen and dumb. Totally.
is every other team doing the same thing? Absolutely.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:08 AM ^
The biggest story in college football on their bye week.
The Michigan Difference.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:20 AM ^
is it overwhelmingly likely that this was a known and funded operation. Yes per Occam’s razor.
Nah, this is more like Hanlon's Razor - "Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity" **
(** that said, real life has often made me question Hanlon's Razor in a 'por que no los dos?' kind of way)
October 25th, 2023 at 10:33 AM ^
Eh. We don’t know enough to occams razor it like that. You could just as easily look at how he ran his operation (his personal venmo, his personal credit card, and buying tickets in his own name) and say occams razor points to this being essentially Connors operation if there was a single iota of evidence another staffer was implicated, it would be alllll over twitter right now (still could happen, but all this digging and nothing yet)
As to the money, its really not *that* much money. He could have one booster roped in and that would cover everything easily
October 25th, 2023 at 12:24 PM ^
It might very well just be Stalion's operation, but one the coordinators started using the information Stalions gave them, it became a staff and program problem. There is NO DOUBT the OC and DC had the information, Stalions was right next to each of them in multiple photos. It's a bad look no matter what.
October 25th, 2023 at 8:15 PM ^
No doubt they had it, but I havent seen evidence yet that they knew what Stallions was doing. For all they knew he watched every opponent game meticulously like they superfan he was and cracked the code. tbd
October 25th, 2023 at 10:07 AM ^
there are about 800 other posts you could have just added this as a comment on.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:09 AM ^
I sign on a couple times a day looking for news on this thing, so I don't mind too much. I guess I would prefer a diary with links of the last day's coverage around the web.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:14 AM ^
Crap like this isn't "news" though. It's wild speculation. This post is some dipshit either going through terminal BPONE or a troll trying to stir drama by making shit up out of whole cloth. It's not even commenting on other people's rumors, it's someone creating their own rumors.
October 25th, 2023 at 11:50 AM ^
Cool.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:09 AM ^
That was a lot of opinion and speculation with no new facts. Next time, do one of two things:
1) bullets, or
2) don’t post at all.
October 25th, 2023 at 10:09 AM ^
TL;DR
Do we have to start calling him Wild Stalions?
October 25th, 2023 at 10:11 AM ^
This message board is becoming more unbearable by the day. Also, Toby, quit drinking and go to bed.