OT: So things are getting pretty bad out west...
Firstly, our thoughts are with all of you dealing with this right now. I've been there myself, as our second child was born while we were evacuated from our San Diego home in 2007. It's scary stuff.
Secondly, there doesn't seem to be any hint of rain in the forecast until Tuesday. If 500K are under one of the three evacuation levels now, how high will that number be by the end of the weekend?
Lastly, does anyone really think this won't get worse every year from here on out in the PNW?
September 12th, 2020 at 9:50 AM ^
This is not normal. But fires in nature are normal.
You know what fighting these fires really requires? Taking forest management seriously. I don't mean politicians saying they do, but don't really do anything about it like now. But prioritizing it above all the other Environmentalist nonsense that currently has priority.
It's taken 50 years of having their priorities bass ackwards, so I would also assume it would take that long to fix the problem if Mother Nature doesn't take care of it herself.
September 11th, 2020 at 8:02 PM ^
Oregon Office of Emergency Management mapping tool to monitor the situation:
Scary.
September 11th, 2020 at 5:00 PM ^
I was just saying last weekend how awesome this summer has been here in Seattle without the smoke that has become so prevalent the last few years. That didn't age well.
September 11th, 2020 at 5:20 PM ^
Portland, where I'm at currently, is registering 287 on the Air Quality Index. So we're just shy of Hazardous. Greeeeat. And to think, I didn't think things could get much worse
September 11th, 2020 at 5:21 PM ^
I'll see your 200 and raise you eighty ?
September 11th, 2020 at 5:25 PM ^
Hey, would you look at that! We are beating China!
September 11th, 2020 at 5:28 PM ^
Is it official? Is America great again?
September 11th, 2020 at 5:52 PM ^
Merica!!!
September 12th, 2020 at 9:40 AM ^
USA!
USA!
September 11th, 2020 at 6:11 PM ^
Reporting from PDX too.
The air is the worst I've ever seen, makes the smog from my days in LA in the early 90s seem like nothing at all. Has a very weird yellow hue, mid-day bright red sun, and feels very apocalyptic. Thankfully the wind storms have calmed down -- we were gusting upwards of 60 MPH this week for several days.
Courts and schools all around the Willamette Valley are closing, to the extent they are open at all.
Friends from nearby communities are evacuating. Not yet in PDX, but it's so dry here (we've had a long run of days in the 80s and 90s) that I could see the city burning -- I've been watering my yard heavily for days. Got three hoses in the yard to get ready.
Weird stuff on social media, conspiracy theories that Antifa is to blame.
Be safe peeps. Does not look good.
September 11th, 2020 at 7:06 PM ^
I don't know how to embed pics, but I took a screenshot this morning showing air quality of 350 in Valencia CA. It has now gone down all the way to 198, however. Still bad.
September 11th, 2020 at 9:15 PM ^
H'wood Hills here... Had to have the lights on in the house all day because the sky is wonderful shade of yuck. smh.
September 11th, 2020 at 5:01 PM ^
Well Vlad. Gotta take leadership on the climate change front. Maybe you can influence your buddies Donald Trump and Xi Jinping.
September 11th, 2020 at 5:11 PM ^
It's intellectually lazy to just blame it on "climate change." Forest management in Oregon has been awful catering to the environmentalist extremists, The government could have done something to prevent wildfires from being this out of control, but they didn't. Hows the spotted owl doing now?
September 11th, 2020 at 5:16 PM ^
Nonsense. There wasn't anything approaching reasonable fire management in logged portions of NW forests before the ESA. Also, true old growth forests in the historic PNW climate were highly resilient to forest fires - much more so that the rotationally clear cut forests that have been left behind after logging operations have wiped out the old growth.
September 11th, 2020 at 5:51 PM ^
This dude gets it
https://lhc.ca.gov/report/fire-mountain-rethinking-forest-management-si…
'California's forests are reaching a breaking point. Poor management policies that interrupted the natural and historical cycle of fire...have left forests vulnerable to disease, insects, catastrophic fire and drought. If the state does not take appropriate action soon, Californians risk losing the priceless benefits provided by forests. One forest supervisor told the Commission that management decisions made during the next five to 10 years will determine the forests condition in 100 to 200 years.'
'California's forests evolved with fire and were shaped by fire. Though the increasing number of homes built in or near forests means re cannot feasibly be returned to the forest everywhere, prescribed fire, where possible, should be used to treat forests. Prescribed fires work in calm conditions that prevent ê re from burning out of control and limit smoke and carbon emissions.'
'Californians are woefully uneducated on the importance of healthy forests and the benefits they provide. The state should invest in a large-scale outreach and educaçation campaign to inform the public about the ecological importance of forests and the necessity for prescribed burns to bring about a lasting culture change in how the state views and treats its forests. Fortunately, a model already exists in California in how the state has approached drought educaçation.
California Govt Little Hoover Commission 2018 Report
https://www.nifc.gov/fireInfo/fireInfo_stats_totalFires.html
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IF10244.pdf
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2019/02/25/wildfires-caused-by…
September 11th, 2020 at 6:46 PM ^
Between 1957 and 1987, there was just one wildfire that exceeded 100,000 acres. Since the national forests were primarily shut down from logging, Oregon averages about 500,000 acres being burned every year. The ideologues can go try to ban cars and planes in the name of climate change, but to help actual people living in Oregon, there are obvious and practical solutions that are being ignored.
September 11th, 2020 at 7:49 PM ^
If anyone is sincerely interested in learning about this topic, here is a TEDx talk for you.
September 11th, 2020 at 5:18 PM ^
I don’t know how they are, could you give me an update? I will lie awake tonight wondering the fate of all the spotted owls
September 12th, 2020 at 1:05 AM ^
Thanus for your concern. I'm actually concerned about the survival of my child!
September 11th, 2020 at 5:25 PM ^
Was it raking? Should they have raked?
September 11th, 2020 at 5:30 PM ^
I suppose forest management is also terrible in Siberia, Australia, and Brazil too, right? All of those places had historic fires in the last year. It's incredible what you people tell yourselves to not have to confront the reality of climate change. I'm sure forests could be managed better, but the major driver of historic wildfires occurring all over the world at the same time is climate change.
September 11th, 2020 at 6:41 PM ^
They probably are poorly managed. Not that your point isn’t valid. Assuming competence in other countries is a dicey thing.
September 11th, 2020 at 9:07 PM ^
Can’t management of forests be poor and climate change both be contributing? I mean us humans have fucked up a lot of shit thinking we know best.
September 12th, 2020 at 7:31 AM ^
No.
It is all climate change and anyone who says poor management has a hand in these disasters shall be sent to Bolivia because the people have spoken.
September 12th, 2020 at 1:14 PM ^
I think he’s pointing at both the people who insist it is all climate change and forest management has no role as well as to the people who insist it is all forest management and climate change has no role.
September 12th, 2020 at 1:56 PM ^
I don't think anyone who says poor management has a hand in these disasters is getting sent to Bolivia. It's just assholes who act like the fires are exclusively caused by dumb libs and their dumb policies. Scientists have been saying for decades that climate change will intensify wildfires. Now it's happening. Extreme wildfires are not just limited to western US states. There's an entire world out there and historic wildfires have been popping up all over it. Remember Australia last year? Siberia? The Arctic wildfires definitely aren't because of dumb policies from Democrats.
September 11th, 2020 at 5:37 PM ^
DEVELOPING: Man Claiming Intellectual Laziness Is Himself Being Intellectually Dishonest.
Film at 11.
September 11th, 2020 at 5:39 PM ^
They just don't sweep those forrest floors nearly as clean as they used to!
September 11th, 2020 at 5:54 PM ^
This dude gets it
https://lhc.ca.gov/report/fire-mountain-rethinking-forest-management-si…
'California's forests are reaching a breaking point. Poor management policies that interrupted the natural and historical cycle of fire...have left forests vulnerable to disease, insects, catastrophic fire and drought. If the state does not take appropriate action soon, Californians risk losing the priceless benefits provided by forests. One forest supervisor told the Commission that management decisions made during the next five to 10 years will determine the forests condition in 100 to 200 years.'
'California's forests evolved with fire and were shaped by fire. Though the increasing number of homes built in or near forests means re cannot feasibly be returned to the forest everywhere, prescribed fire, where possible, should be used to treat forests. Prescribed fires work in calm conditions that prevent ê re from burning out of control and limit smoke and carbon emissions.'
'Californians are woefully uneducated on the importance of healthy forests and the benefits they provide. The state should invest in a large-scale outreach and education campaign to inform the public about the ecological importance of forests and the necessity for prescribed burns to bring about a lasting culture change in how the state views and treats its forests. Fortunately, a model already exists in California in how the state has approached drought education.
California Govt Little Hoover Commission 2018 Report
https://www.nifc.gov/fireInfo/fireInfo_stats_totalFires.html
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IF10244.pdf
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2019/02/25/wildfires-caused-by…
September 11th, 2020 at 6:17 PM ^
Edit: Whatever.
September 11th, 2020 at 6:30 PM ^
You and Victor Valiant are like the lawyers that tried to defend the asbestos industry in the 80s where they claimed the factory workers cancer was because they smoked cigarettes. We are tired of this same old diversionary BS.
September 11th, 2020 at 6:44 PM ^
Just sick of stupid people telling lies, that's all. Sorry if it makes you angry
September 11th, 2020 at 6:58 PM ^
Ah I see, you are sick of yourself!
Here are some facts for you:
Have fun:
September 11th, 2020 at 7:40 PM ^
https://lhc.ca.gov/report/fire-mountain-rethinking-forest-management-si…
'California's forests are reaching a breaking point. Poor management policies that interrupted the natural and historical cycle of fire...have left forests vulnerable to disease, insects, catastrophic fire and drought. If the state does not take appropriate action soon, Californians risk losing the priceless benefits provided by forests. One forest supervisor told the Commission that management decisions made during the next five to 10 years will determine the forests condition in 100 to 200 years.'
'California's forests evolved with fire and were shaped by fire. Though the increasing number of homes built in or near forests means re cannot feasibly be returned to the forest everywhere, prescribed fire, where possible, should be used to treat forests. Prescribed fires work in calm conditions that prevent ê re from burning out of control and limit smoke and carbon emissions.'
'Californians are woefully uneducated on the importance of healthy forests and the benefits they provide. The state should invest in a large-scale outreach and education campaign to inform the public about the ecological importance of forests and the necessity for prescribed burns to bring about a lasting culture change in how the state views and treats its forests. Fortunately, a model already exists in California in how the state has approached drought education.
California Govt Little Hoover Commission 2018 Report
https://www.nifc.gov/fireInfo/fireInfo_stats_totalFires.html
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IF10244.pdf
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2019/02/25/wildfires-caused-by…
September 11th, 2020 at 5:14 PM ^
Green New Deal now, please
September 11th, 2020 at 6:17 PM ^
The Green Deal is a joke.
If they would set their sights a little lower, it might have a shot.
September 11th, 2020 at 6:25 PM ^
We have a catastrophic problem that is global in scale and systemic in nature. Nothing less that a revolutionary change in technology and economy will get carbon emissions down to levels that will not lead to long term destruction of civilization as we know it. If you want to put forth half measures, you might as well do nothing.
September 11th, 2020 at 7:01 PM ^
America, as a whole, will be ok even in the face of a significant climate shift. Some places will be fucked, and coastal areas might be underwater, but with our geography and size we can withstand it.
Asia and Africa are going to be fucked though.
And we're not going to do anything to stop it. Hell, the Russians want global warming so Siberia will be more habitable and exploitable.
September 11th, 2020 at 7:17 PM ^
Depends on your time horizon. If you only look out a couple generations, America can probably weather climate change. In the long run, though, I don't believe that is true.
September 11th, 2020 at 8:42 PM ^
America will definitely not be ok. Although the climate will most likely be more suitable than you would find elsewhere, the social and economic upheaval will be extreme. Like, get a head of the curve to survive extreme. Covid hasn't given me much confidence in our cultural resilience either. Do you really think we could expect our society to survive a challenge many times harder and more complex than Covid?
September 11th, 2020 at 9:26 PM ^
Well, I wouldn't go quite that far...
September 11th, 2020 at 6:35 PM ^
The reinsurance industry has already modeled billions in losses. Factor that into your minimalistic ROI focused “joke”. Good luck insuring your coastal, river, forest, or mountain home in the mean time.
The green deal won’t make enough of a dent in the model but it’s a start.
September 11th, 2020 at 11:28 PM ^
Let me guess: that “little lower” is nothing, if you’d have your way?
September 11th, 2020 at 5:14 PM ^
I've got the world ending before December 31 (2020 gonna 2020), so I'm not too concerned about next year's fire season.
Best wishes to all dealing with the current one though, it's brutal out there.
September 11th, 2020 at 5:54 PM ^
For $100 you can pick a day in my betting pool for the end of the world. Dec 31 is available. The winner wins $1B. That’s a huge payout. You can even buy multiple dates. Are you in?
(is this where I have to put / something or other)
September 11th, 2020 at 5:25 PM ^
Everyone be safe out there! The west coast is a great and beautiful part of our country. At some point or another, our society and government will take climate change as seriously as it should be.
Once we get through this, and people can finally assess the gravity of the damage this is the event that does it.
September 11th, 2020 at 5:26 PM ^
I'm in Portland and it's a smoky hellscape at the moment. Climate change will absolutely make this more frequent and severe going forward, but this year in particular the conditions were just right to make things terrible in Oregon. We had an extreme wind storm at a time when the air was very hot and there was almost no humidity. Just a few days ago we had some isolated fires, but nothing that unusual. Now we live in the Blade Runner dystopia. Anyway, here's this:
September 11th, 2020 at 5:43 PM ^
Seems like Seattle, Portland, SF and LA need to get their climate acts in order.
Maybe one day they can get to the level of Delhi where they burn trash in the street.
September 11th, 2020 at 6:24 PM ^
Incompetent mayors and governors ... Im seeing a pattern here !!