U of M's biggest rival?
I received an interesting phone call last night. It was from a buddy I used to work with down here in Columbus, OH. (For those of you who don't know, I live in Columbus, OH*. ) After a bit of small talk he asked me what I thought was a simple question: Who is Michigan's biggest rival. Without even blinking I responded: Ohio (State).
I had a split second to wonder why he would ask me such a question. Were there going to be follow up questions to a question with such a simple answer? But after a split second, I heard a bunch of "Oooooooooooohhhhhhs!" in the background. I immediately knew what this question was about.
Let me back up a little bit. 2 years ago, I began working in Columbus. One day, I got into a discussion with a co-worker about the rivalry. Now, she has lived in Ohio her whole life although she didn't attend the State University in Ohio. However, I was surprised when she said that Sparty is actually Michigan's biggest rival. I immediately corrected her, and asked if it was a Spartan fan who misinformed her. She told me no, it was a Michigan fan. I found this odd...
About a year later, I was standing in line to donate blood plasma (still in Columbus) and I heard a gentleman in line (he was an Ohio fan) proclaim that Michigan considered Sparty as their biggest rival. I didn't feel like correcting him, but I was confused and a bit disturbed.
Back to last night. After I heard the "Ooooohhhhs!" in the background of the phone call, I was pretty sure why my buddy had asked me this question. I asked for an explanation anyway, and he explained that one of his coworkers is from Boston and made the audacious claim that Sparty is Michigan's biggest rival, not Ohio. I didn't ask if the gentlemen from Boston attended MSU or not since I was a little ticked off. I immediately responded: Sparty THINKS their our biggest rival. But it is Ohio. I heard another batch of "Ooooooooooohhhhhs!" in the background. My buddy thanked me for clearing that up, and I told him I was delighted to do so.
So now, this leads me to some questions. I always thought Ohio was our biggest rival, at least since the days of Woody "ThroatPuncher" Hayes. I also assume the majority of MFans consider Ohio our biggest rival. Does anyone out there consider Sparty to be our biggest rival?
And my next question: How in the world did this rumor about Sparty being our biggest rival get started?
I have been curious and, frankly, a bit distressed about this misconception, and I wanted to get some of your thoughts.
*I have also learned to breathe through my mouth.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:21 PM ^
Ohio. That is ALL. End of conversation.
November 21st, 2011 at 9:05 PM ^
Been a fan of Michigan since I was a little kid, attended for 6 years to get two degrees... I don't understand what the MSU game is besides the time of year when the kids that dropped out of my physics class in high school send me the text "goin down this saturday brah?"
November 21st, 2011 at 9:32 PM ^
How this thread went any further than this post.
November 21st, 2011 at 9:54 PM ^
Depends on definition. Sparty game is more important than OSU because it has more of an impact on our standing in our division. Which rivalry involes more history/hatred? Obviously OSU.
If you are interested in B1G titles then you have to agree Sparty is a more important game.
November 22nd, 2011 at 9:47 AM ^
I grew up in the Rocket Ismail / Lou Holtz days, when M and ND would play each other ranked in the top 5 -- and M lost most of those games. For me then, and still now, I hate ND more than OSU. In those days we used to beat OSU the way they beat us now, and even many of the players would say that ND was a bigger rival than OSU. Things change, obviously, but I still get more worked up about beating ND than OSU.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:22 PM ^
It stems from insidious Spartan propaganda and an over-reliance on geography.
November 21st, 2011 at 8:20 PM ^
What was said above plus that fact that Sparty needs to make it seem like they are our biggest rivals to give their seasons meaning if/when they win against us.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:23 PM ^
Well they kicked the crap out of us in East Lansing and had some dirty plays to go along with it. They've made a pretty good case for it the past 5 years.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:25 PM ^
Yea, but between 1975 and 2005 they have NOT made much of a case. I would think that 5 years a rivalry does not make.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:28 PM ^
Unless Ohio State does something ridiculous this Saturday, I'd be willing to bet the Michigan locker room has a lot more bitterness directed towards Michigan State players than they will Ohio State players. I'm pretty positive Denard would atleast.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:35 PM ^
One dirty game does not a bigger rivalry make.
If OSU had a hard fought, dirty game against Penn State, that doesn't make them a bigger rival than us.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:42 PM ^
ARGH.
Pure conjecture, first of all. Losing 7 in a row to Ohio will probably also make you bitter toward OSU.
And rivalries are not measured in bitterness alone. The HUUUUUUUUUUUGE factor Sparty lacks is what we call 'Competitiveness', in which they score about a 3/10.
They've won 4 in a row during our worst modern three year stretch and beat us in our current coach's first season. Do not respond to my comment by saying they have historically been competitive - we just beat them 5 times in a row before that.
November 21st, 2011 at 7:12 PM ^
Listen all I said is Michigan State has been a pretty nasty opponent for the players that play football for Michigan today. Despite the fact that everyone's response seems to be "we don't care as much" Michigan State is a very big game on our schedule (even bigger now that we're in the same division) and pretending the game means nothing doesn't actually make it so.
November 21st, 2011 at 7:46 PM ^
No one's saying we don't care about that game. We're just saying that we care about the biggest rivalry in all of sports a little more.
The answer is OSU, no question, no hesitation. Until the last decade, I considered ND a bigger rival than MSU.
November 21st, 2011 at 7:45 PM ^
November 21st, 2011 at 6:45 PM ^
More than simply getting your ass consistantly handed to you goes into the equation for rivalry. It will never be bigger than Ohio.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:23 PM ^
Consider msu a much bigger game than it is. Osu is our biggest rival and it aint close.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:23 PM ^
before the 1994 OSU-Michigan game.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:23 PM ^
Does anyone out there consider Sparty to be our biggest rival?
How in the world did this rumor about Sparty being our biggest rival get started?
The answer to both questions is "Michigan State alumni."
November 21st, 2011 at 7:49 PM ^
All Michigan State fans. Considering their only fans are Students and alumni, we can only add students.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:23 PM ^
This thread started the rumor. We've had this debate several times. the concensus is tOSU.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:23 PM ^
To be completely frank/not being a dick...Anyone saying State is our biggest rival has a decent chance of being a closet State sympathizer..The only people I have ever heard consider MSU as our biggest rival are of course State fans. There is simply nothing like the Michigan-Ohio rivalry and never will be. Go Blue. Crush Ohio.
November 21st, 2011 at 7:03 PM ^
outside The Rivalry, I'm looking at you Sparty, don't realize that there is bitter gridiron history behind The Rivalry as well as political and military history behind it. Let me explain...no there's too much..let me sum up. Ohio effectively blocked Michigans entry into the Union as the 26th state through many political machinations. Which eventually culminated in the very ugly matter of the Toledo War. Sparty is never going to live up to all that no matter how many personal fouls they ring up.
November 21st, 2011 at 9:15 PM ^
I'm not sure I'd use the term "very ugly" implying some horrible loss of life. The "War" was hardly a war; almost bloodless, and the two states' militias couldn't even reach each other due to the thick swamp separating them (I'm still blown away trying to imagine boring, flat Bowling Green in the middle of the Great Black Swamp). Still fascinating that the last remnants of the borderdispute weren't settled until 1973...
November 21st, 2011 at 11:56 PM ^
I said ugly not bloody. The word bloody implies "horrible loss of life". Not sure why a border dispute involving armed militia's can't be considered a " very ugly" affair between border states. Nowhere in the half dozen historical records that I read does it mention that the militia's couldn't "reach each other" due to the "thickness" of the Great Black Swamp.
November 22nd, 2011 at 12:24 AM ^
for ugly. For the masses, there is the wikipedia entry on the Black Swamp and states the impact of its impassability, but, yes, it is wikipedia. Perrysburg's history only indicates the Ohio militia were slowed and they lost equipment in trying to go north through the swamp. The Detroit News has this:
"Men galloping about--guns getting ready--wagons being filled with people and hurrying off, and everybody in commotion. The two armies struggled for a soggy week to find each other in the wilderness and swamps surrounding the region, but never did come in contact."
From the reading I've done, between the thickness of the tall trees and/or the thickness of the mud, it was an issue that prevented the militias from reaching each other.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:24 PM ^
But it's close. They are like bizzaro world Michigan. And state is a distant 3rd
November 21st, 2011 at 6:24 PM ^
I know some people from the Lansing area who are reformed spartans. They think of the state game as the biggest one. Thats it though. I think you might find people who say that they think it is more important to beat state, but not that state is the bigger rival. I think wanting to beat state comes from the fact that losing to them is embaressing. Wanting to beat ohio comes from the rivalry.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:27 PM ^
Now THAT is insightful. Thanks!
November 21st, 2011 at 6:24 PM ^
Though there are some in-state students/alums who consider MSU the more relevant rivalry because they have to deal with ribbing about a loss in that game for a full year.
They, however, are generally in the minority. All out of state and most in-state alums/students would agree that it is OSU.
So did this fellow named Bo Schembechler, so I'm going to go ahead and say that he gets the last word on that matter.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:24 PM ^
If we lose to Sparty I guess we always hear about it more than if we lose to Ohio since we live next to and with Sparty fans. That could be a contributing factor.
Plus Sparty, being little brother, should never beat us ever. Ohio, OTOH, is a better opponent so a loss in that game every now and then would be understandable(usually!).
November 21st, 2011 at 6:25 PM ^
I've never heard that before, even from delusional MSU fans. Maybe some of the OSU crazy is rubbing off on UM fans in Columbus.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:30 PM ^
I've lived in Michigan my whole life, I've never heard of even an MSU fan believing it isn't Ohio
November 21st, 2011 at 6:26 PM ^
OSU in football (though I hate Notre Dame more), I think State legitimately is in every other sport though. I haaaaaaaaate MSU hockey.
November 22nd, 2011 at 10:27 AM ^
November 21st, 2011 at 6:27 PM ^
Back to last night. After I heard the "Ooooohhhhs!" in the background of the phone call, I was pretty sure why my buddy had asked me this question. I asked for an explanation anyway, and he explained that one of his coworkers is from Boston and made the audacious claim that Sparty is Michigan's biggest rival, not Ohio. I didn't ask if the gentlemen from Boston attended MSU or not since I was a little ticked off. I immediately responded: Sparty THINKS their our biggest rival. But it is Ohio. I heard another batch of "Ooooooooooohhhhhs!" in the background. My buddy thanked me for clearing that up, and I told him I was delighted to do so.
Unfortunately, Boston is not a very good college sports town even though it's renowned for its universities. Having grown up here, I can speak to its lack of enthusiasm. I don't think it's even a question who are biggest rival is. I would have the same reaction as you. "Why would someone ask me this question?"
November 21st, 2011 at 9:30 PM ^
Boston (and much of the east coast) thinks college football is a quaint midwest or deep south pastime - like cowtipping and sipping lemonade next to the ol' swimming hole. As a result, the NFL, MLB and even the NBA seem to get more attention on the east coast than NCAA tackle football.
As for the OP - 1) Ohio; 2) ND; 3) L'il Brah.
November 22nd, 2011 at 3:07 AM ^
Nah, I don't think we appreciate it out here. Especially in Boston, with our puritanical values. BC has the worst...well.. they don't even have tailgating. I really don't know how anyone can get into it. College football really is an afterthought here. Even regular football only emerged here as the Patriots got good. Boston's always been a baseball first town. Then, we got everything else. Hockey is the biggest college sport. Every school has a team and we have great competition (the Beanpot). It really sucks that someone would be that uneducated and would provide an opinion like that though. It reflects poorly on the natives who went to Michigan and know our rivaries.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:28 PM ^
not a hard call.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:28 PM ^
Definitely that school in ohio is our biggest. Who's the asshat that said sparty is?
November 21st, 2011 at 6:28 PM ^
Is that they are a cute local story. Last year was the best season they have had in how long? And still struggle to recruit. Our biggest rival can't be with a school who plays home game's in the state fairgrounds.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:29 PM ^
This **** thread is continuing the misinformation. Are you some sort of mole, planted by Michigan State alumni Wolverine Incognito. Or should we say "SPARTICUS Incognito"? Ohio is our biggest rival in every sport. Anyone who says otherwise is either brain dead or an Illini fan (which I guess is one in the same).
November 22nd, 2011 at 10:29 AM ^
November 21st, 2011 at 6:29 PM ^
Ohio. Sparty would lead you to believe they are, but they'd also lead you to believe they have tradition...outside of 1966, they don't.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:29 PM ^
I grew up in Indiana and everyone there considers it to be Ohio State, as do all Michigan fans I know.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:29 PM ^
Behind Notre Dame
November 21st, 2011 at 6:30 PM ^
There are no fucking documentaries/books/movies on the M/MSU game there are just a long list of fired MSU coaches. Tell the Boston friend to just worry about the Yankees and leave big boy rivalries to real fans
November 21st, 2011 at 6:31 PM ^
What I don't understand is why Michigan fans continue to even acknowledge lil brother at all. They are NOT our rival...PERIOD! They measure themselves against us, so please stop talking about them.
November 21st, 2011 at 6:33 PM ^
1) Ohio
2) MSU
3) ND
4) Everyone else
By the way, I think if you ask the same question anywhere in the B1G, Michigan will get mentioned more often than you think.
I work with a guy from Illinois and he thinks Michigan is their rival. Go figure and then...
Go Blue!
November 21st, 2011 at 6:43 PM ^
I would say OSU, then ND, then MSU, then everyone else. But I don't live in Michigan and MSU grads can't afford to live where I live so I don't have to hear it from them like many others do.
My brother, OTOH, lives in the mitten still and hates Sparty more than I do, mostly due to proximity to them.