Overlooked HC Candidates
So I know that Fleck and Minnesota are having a down year, but before this season I was hearing a lot of people say that Michigan should hire him if Harbaugh disappointed again. Are we sure he isn’t a better candidate than Campbell, I mean Fleck’s best team at Western and last years Minnesota might be better than any Iowa State Campbell team.
Then there is the Purdue coach, Brohm. He was a hot commodity for a minute when they beat Ohio State that one time. He should have quit that night and taken a huge pay day somewhere. Seems like he should at least be talked about in this conversation.
I like Fleck about the same amount as Campbell, I like Brohm less, but better than bringing Harbaugh back. What do y’all think?
November 20th, 2020 at 11:36 PM ^
Read this article and tell me Fleck/Campbell are equal candidates. Campbell is 3x the coach gimmicky Fleck is. We have a weird/gimmicky/rubs people the wrong way coach already. We don’t need another. Fleck has lots of assistant coaches leave regularly, plus heard he’s a prick behind closed doors. Please hope He’s never a serious candidate if we get an opening. I would pick 15+ people before him.
https://sports.yahoo.com/matt-campbell-ended-generations-of-futility-at-iowa-state-053103504.html
November 20th, 2020 at 11:42 PM ^
Pretty sure he had a team at Western that would have beaten any team Michigan has had since 2016. So hard to say we are too good for him. Also, he has assistants leave because they are assistants at a small school making no money and the team is winning a ton. You heard he’s a meanie? Who cares?
Campbell is a good candidate also, but Fleck has done a lot. The “gimmicky weird abrasive” tag could go for every single good high school coach in America. The college coaches at big schools just have a PR staff to help them with the press.
November 20th, 2020 at 11:47 PM ^
Fleck needs to prove he can replicate a double digit win season at a major school before I'd consider him. In an average year, Michigan plays two or three tougher teams than the toughest game Minnesota played last year, and they didn't look dominant against some of the terrible squads they squeaked by. Plus for all the congratulations he got, he still lost at Iowa and to his biggest rival at home. At Michigan, that would still be considered an unsuccessful season
November 21st, 2020 at 12:06 AM ^
Yes, but it’s also Minnesota and he hasn’t even recruited his own players yet. So the for the talent he has, impressive season.
I am not saying that Fleck is the best option, I’m just saying he should be in the conversation.
November 21st, 2020 at 9:00 AM ^
Jerry Kill was very good at discovering underrated players that would thrive after some development. Fleck benefited from that a bit.
November 21st, 2020 at 9:41 AM ^
Minnesota had a pretty good amount of talent last season, 5 players drafted plus a potential 1st round wr in the next draft and one of the best qbs in the conference.
November 21st, 2020 at 12:33 AM ^
Average coaches can have occasional 12-1 seasons at middling programs.
Sincerely,
Brady Hoke
November 21st, 2020 at 12:43 AM ^
Also Ferentz, Frost, Orgeron, Chizik, and Kevin Ollie if you include basketball
So much of a team's record is schedule dependent that it's not wise to trust any single season record. You need a track record of success before you can trust a guy. Obviously they'll be in higher demand at that point though
November 21st, 2020 at 8:40 AM ^
CC: Harbaugh at Stanford?
November 21st, 2020 at 10:47 AM ^
Bingo. Look more to the overall career record. Hoke was a career 500 coach so I am not sure why folks thought he would get to UM and sustain the rouge 12-1 season. He regressed to his mean over time. Winners win at all stops. Give me a Chris Petersen. Petersen could be enticed and is nearly 800 winning pctg.
Whatever happens, I sure would like to see a plan in place before a move is made. None of the swinging and missing at the top candidates. Get the back room deals done before anything officially happens.
November 21st, 2020 at 11:23 AM ^
Can Harbaugh start regressing to his mean soon? Please and thank you.
November 24th, 2020 at 7:52 PM ^
he is there. we’re here.
mat the college ranks, harbaugh is 69% (nice) all time all stops. he’s currently 70% overall at michigan.
November 21st, 2020 at 10:07 AM ^
Pretty sure he had a team at Western that would have beaten any team Michigan has had since 2016.
If you truly believe this, you are delusional.
November 20th, 2020 at 11:37 PM ^
Oh boy.
November 20th, 2020 at 11:37 PM ^
Thanks for your input.
I'll take it under advisement.
- Warde
*probably
November 20th, 2020 at 11:39 PM ^
Double post...so...
Yay hockey!!!
November 20th, 2020 at 11:43 PM ^
When Iowa St beat Oklahoma earlier this year and Campbell did a postgame interview I texted my brother and said “I could see this guy coaching Michigan some day.” Of course, I thought that would be in 4 or 5 years. Wha a difference a few months makes sadly.
November 21st, 2020 at 12:32 AM ^
Thought the same thing when I saw that interview. He’s got a good football mind, his players play hard for him and love him, and he has a knack for winning big games against big opponents.
Iowa State has only had 4 seasons with a winning Big 12 record. Campbell has coached 3 of them.
Plus, I can’t stand Urban Meyer, but he has a great eye for coaching talent (dirty bag WR coach aside), and he really wanted Campbell to work for him. So did the Patriots. People who know football recognize Campbell is a talented coach and want him on their sideline.
I would love to see how he could recruit at Michigan and what kind of staff he could put together with a Michigan budget behind him.
November 21st, 2020 at 7:22 AM ^
I wouldn’t say Meyer is a coaching whisperer by any stretch. He’s hired as many good coaches as bad. Warinner is a phenomenal OL coach but was a horrible coordinator. Cost osu at least 1 championship. His best hires were Day of course, Hafley,Johnson,Vrabel,Studrawa,Herman.
November 21st, 2020 at 7:25 AM ^
Campbell passes the eye test with the exception of his recruiting. How much of that can we pin on iowa state and not the coach?
November 21st, 2020 at 9:49 AM ^
This is the big question. With recruiting being at the top of a staffs necessary skills. Scheme, and X’s and O’s can drive a less talented program to play better than they are on a consistent basis. But to be top tier, it starts and finishes with talent acquisition.
November 21st, 2020 at 11:12 AM ^
Nobody is recruiting at ISU for legit 4-5 stars on a regular basis. The resources and facilities are some of the worst for P5 in the country. I read they are renovating in the near future to up their game. Relationship with coaches is huge, but top talent also cares about their brand (national tv, historic programs, top facilities, success of high draft picks, media hype, huge fan bases/crowd presence...basically money!!). Certain schools like Utah, ISU, KSU, Ok St, Vtech, TCU, Baylor, Miss St, and even somewhat Wisconsin will have some nice seasons but probably never become elite. Recruits aren’t excited to go to these programs, might win a few but not a ton. This is why to me the losses to schools like IU/Wisc/MSU upset me more than anything against OSU. We have way more talent, just too many holes in the recruiting philosophy, kids leaving early, or not being coached up properly.
November 21st, 2020 at 10:18 AM ^
Good player development + good organization + good motivation + bad recruiting = Wisconsin. I'd take that given where we seem to be now.
November 21st, 2020 at 10:30 AM ^
Wisconsin is 2018 Michigan, but in an easier division and less institutional pressure to beat Ohio State. (And Wisconsin doesn't beat Ohio State either). Most of us here said that wasn't good enough, and it isn't.
November 21st, 2020 at 2:04 PM ^
Except a lot of people still wanted Harbaugh gone while producing Wisconsin results. Wisconsin is just Michigan in an easier division.
November 21st, 2020 at 11:00 AM ^
I feel pretty good about Campbell's Ohio roots -- Massillon High / Mt. Union D3 dynasty / Toledo -- and therefore his presumed comfort with recruiting in Ohio.
November 21st, 2020 at 11:13 AM ^
The big Q is can he recruit. I am not enamored with Fickell, nor Fleck. If you want a flier then go after a guy like Hafly, but Campbell seems to be more stable.
November 20th, 2020 at 11:43 PM ^
Brohm seems smart enough to employ the under appreciated "give our best players the ball" tactic, which cannot be said about Harbaugh or Fleck (4 touches for Bateman tonight)
Still, I don't see Brohm having success at Michigan, nor any of those other candidates. Lights out recruiting is needed to reach the level of OSU, and there's a reason only two or three teams are on that level: they're the only ones who can recruit that well
November 20th, 2020 at 11:58 PM ^
Plus Brohm is an asshole.
November 21st, 2020 at 8:26 AM ^
Always have been interested where you go for dispensation.
November 20th, 2020 at 11:44 PM ^
There’s no slam dunk type hire here that the U will accept, so it’s really just a question of what you’d like to try that’s different from the current regime to see if that has any luck. Flecks teams seem rather one dimensional and simple in their offensive approach. Brohm would have been high on the list for me a few years ago but seems like he’s producing inconsistent teams at Purdue, which is still Purdue so fair play, but they still haven’t managed to produce a team that looks killer in the West. At this point I’m looking for a coach who has shown (a) recruits well but also has the ability to coach up and get more out oF his players than their ranking would indicate and (b) has a coherent and modern offensive approach designed to score points. Anybody who fits those criteria is worth a try to see if they can get better results than Harbaugh has. Maybe they can, maybe not.
November 20th, 2020 at 11:46 PM ^
I find PJ Fleck irritating to the point that his hire would make rooting for Michigan a chore for me.
I don't say that lightly. I'm one of the people who upvoted the "hire Urban Meyer" guy.
November 20th, 2020 at 11:47 PM ^
That depends...do they all appear serious about coaching?
November 20th, 2020 at 11:48 PM ^
I see your Fleck and Campbell and raise you one Joe Moorhead.
November 20th, 2020 at 11:56 PM ^
Seriously?!? If both would accept the job, you would want Moorhead over Campbell? To each their own opinion, but to me, the options need to be Fickell, Campbell, Cristobol. Those seem like the best 3 realistic options. Thought Stoops at one time, but think we need younger who is hungry. Wouldn’t be mad at Stoops though. Meyer is pipe dream. Joe Brady doesn’t wanna recruit.
November 21st, 2020 at 8:52 AM ^
You realize that Cristobal compiled a sterling 27-47 in six seasons at Florida International, right?
Question: where is it easier to win: Oregon or Iowa State?
November 21st, 2020 at 10:26 AM ^
I didn’t know it was that bad. But, heard Cristobol Along with Day/Saban/Smart are best best recruiters in terms of organization/detailed plan/execution etc. We wouldn’t be having gaps in our classes at key positions like we do now. Clearly recruiting isn’t a one man job, but the Ceo (Head coach) calls the shots in the direction of the operation.
This is why I don’t like the argument about Campbell not being able to recruit. What coach is getting 4-5 star kids to come to ISU on a regular basis? Same with Cristobol at Florida International. At some point, the big recruits wanna go where their brand can be shined the brightest.
November 21st, 2020 at 9:57 AM ^
No Jeff Hafley? He has to be as much on the short list as anyone else at this point.
November 20th, 2020 at 11:50 PM ^
No, those teams were not better than a Campbell team that beat Oklahoma and TCU in back to back weeks 2 years ago (and sure, lost a few games that year that didn't get them in contention for a Big12 title).
November 20th, 2020 at 11:51 PM ^
Overlooked? Dude, people have been bringing up position coaches. The mgoboard coaching search is already too broad.
November 20th, 2020 at 11:52 PM ^
No.
and
No.
and
No to Campbell, also.
November 21st, 2020 at 2:56 AM ^
Who's your guy then? Because I've seen alot of people slam Campbell but offer no opinion on who they approve of. Genuinely curious and meaning no disrespect here..
November 21st, 2020 at 3:34 AM ^
I know I'm in the minority, but I truly don't believe there are any coaches we can reasonably get that I would feel confident they could get Michigan over the hump. I don't think Harbaugh is the answer anymore, but I think I would rather have him for another year and get McCarthy in the fold and reassess what the coaching candidates are then. Making a change just because you are sick of the current coach commits us to at least three years of somebody else and could have us miss out on a homerun candidate because we already took somebody else
November 21st, 2020 at 3:43 AM ^
I'm not advocating for any picks as a decent portion of this board get really offensive when you start throwing out names for coaches but assuming you are talking about Mike McCarthy here.. I don't think he's the answer either. I think Michigan needs the following:
1) Young, passionate coach who is chomping at the bit to prove themselves
2) Someone who understands the spread, it's efficiencies and deficiencies
3) Someone who can motivate kids and recruit well
4) Not a Michigan man because none exist that understand the first 2 criteria
I'm not saying McCarthy is a bad coach. I think he's a fine NFL coach but I don't think he's college coach material
November 21st, 2020 at 6:07 AM ^
He's talking about keeping JJ McCarthy, the QB recruit btw.
November 21st, 2020 at 8:57 AM ^
Well that makes quite a bit more sense then. I was stuck in the mindset of talking about coaches per the topic of the thread.
November 21st, 2020 at 6:09 AM ^
This is not a good way to look at it. There's a reason fans don't hire coaches. A good AD is privy to information we are not, like candid interviews with the candidates, and references from other coaches they've worked with. How do you think Mark Hollis found Mark Dantonio, who had 3 years head coaching experience and barely a .500 record?
Our view of this is skewed because OSU was able to hire a coach who had won 3 national championships already. This is not typical on a resume for a coaching candidate.
November 21st, 2020 at 6:03 AM ^
People seem to think that because Campbell is a 9-3/8-4 type of coach at ISU and Toledo, that will automatically be his ceiling at Michigan.
I am a Campbell advocate, but admittedly the one drawback I see is that he spent his entire coaching career in the MAC before getting to ISU.
November 21st, 2020 at 8:04 AM ^
I don't see how that is necessarily a bad thing. I guess if you consider it a "unknown" of how he'll handle a big time program but the fact that OSU was considering grooming him to take Meyer's place tells me that it's probably a pretty good hire. If only for the reason that OSU either by way of skill or luck hasn't missed out on a coaching hire for quite a while. He checks all the boxes I would be looking for but of course who knows how that translates if he took over Michigan.
November 21st, 2020 at 12:37 PM ^
My issues with Campbell:
- Recruiting: He hasn't spent time in an elite recruiting operation and to my knowledge hasn't elevated ISU's recruiting all that much.
- He brought his Toledo staff to ISU with him. I think we've seen the issues with staff loyalty here. Even if Campbell is up for the Michigan level, it's unlikely his whole staff is as well.
- He has a poor record vs Iowa.
I don't think he'd be a bad hire, but I don't think he has particularly high upside. The scheme ingenuity we've seen with his teams and the playmakers they've churned out are definitely bright spots however. These are areas I think he's been better than Harbaugh's Michigan.